Do you need to be a good fighter to be a good coach?

[Kickboxer101]

So this is something I see a lot talked about. Like someone trains with a guy and someone says oh your teacher never competed so he can't be any good. But does that mater? To me it doesn't because look at cus'd mato he was in awful shape yet trained plenty of champions. Angelo Dundee another example. Also bruce lee people can say what they want about him as a fighter but he was obviously a good teacher.

I think as long as you know the technique and what your talking about and can show it to your students effectively it doesn't matter if you're not exactly great yourself. That's just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Teaching is one skill. Competing is another skill. A person can be good at one and not the other, or bad at both, or good at both. I think if a person is a great competitor and can also teach, that's terrific. But it's not a requirement so long as the person can teach effectively and knows what is needed to be a winning competitor, whether or not they are one themselves.

 

[elder999]

Teaching is one skill. Competing is another skill. A person can be good at one and not the other, or bad at both, or good at both. I think if a person is a great competitor and can also teach, that's terrific. But it's not a requirement so long as the person can teach effectively and knows what is needed to be a winning competitor, whether or not they are one themselves.

Freddy Roach is an extremely competent and very efficient and capable coach.

We fought AAU and Golden Gloves at the same time (though at different weights). As I recall, he wasn't such a good boxer at all: good at taking a punch, and a fine amateur, but not a great boxer, unlike those he's trained....

 

[Kickboxer101]

Another example would be Ross Pearson he was a awful mma fighter who never listened and never learnt grappling but I saw a documentary and he's a head coach at his own gym now.

 

[drop bear]

Trained good fighters would be the simplest definition of a good coach.

Greg Jacksons fight record probably.(might be more than one out there)

Greg Jackson MMA Stats, Pictures, News, Videos, Biography - Sherdog.com

 

[marques]

Do you need to be a good fighter to be a good coach?
I believe you don't need*, but it will made you sell much easier...

*if you can put other people doing the good stuff you cannot do (because you're injured, old...), that's ok for me. On the other hand for combat sports I will trust a fighter slightly more. For self defence.. who knows what works? Someone always looking for and finding trouble to have experience?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Teaching is one skill. Competing is another skill. A person can be good at one and not the other, or bad at both, or good at both. I think if a person is a great competitor and can also teach, that's terrific. But it's not a requirement so long as the person can teach effectively and knows what is needed to be a winning competitor, whether or not they are one themselves.

Freddy Roach is an extremely competent and very efficient and capable coach.

We fought AAU and Golden Gloves at the same time (though at different weights). As I recall, he wasn't such a good boxer at all: good at taking a punch, and a fine amateur, but not a great boxer, unlike those he's trained....

Read these. Then read them again.
A good coach needs to have deep understanding of the material taught, especially if they're going to teach more than one person (because different people learn differently). Personally, I think teaching something (especially teaching it well) is much harder than doing it.

 

[Tez3]

Another example would be Ross Pearson he was a awful mma fighter who never listened and never learnt grappling but I saw a documentary and he's a head coach at his own gym now.

Really? and what makes you think this? Before you slag people off you really should find out the facts and not from documentaries. Ross has always been a coach, a damn fine one too. For your information he is a brown belt Judoka and a blue belt in BJJ. I've watched many of his fights and he's a successful fighter who as I said has always coached even when fighting. He's a very easy person to get on with and always has time for young fighter looking for advice.
You really do need to actually think about what you are saying before you criticise someone who's MMA record is very much better than yours! Oh and don't bother calling me a liar again because yes I do know Ross. I've also watched his fights from his pro debut where it was obvious he was a good fighter.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Teaching and coaching are separate a skill set in their own rights. Being good in something is a perquisite for being good at teachers. Teachers and coaches have the ability to captivate a students will and desire to learn and are able to communicate knowledge in a way that the student understands.

With that said coaches who have done some type of hard sparring or competitive fight can bring clarity and understanding of things that can only be learned through fighting.
Know how to do a technique is not the same as knowing how and when to apply it. Much of that understanding is gained by fighting.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Really? and what makes you think this? Before you slag people off you really should find out the facts and not from documentaries. Ross has always been a coach, a damn fine one too. For your information he is a brown belt Judoka and a blue belt in BJJ. I've watched many of his fights and he's a successful fighter who as I said has always coached even when fighting. He's a very easy person to get on with and always has time for young fighter looking for advice.
You really do need to actually think about what you are saying before you criticise someone who's MMA record is very much better than yours! Oh and don't bother calling me a liar again because yes I do know Ross. I've also watched his fights from his pro debut where it was obvious he was a good fighter.

Whoops I meant Ross pointon always get the 2 confused but I'm sure you know him as well

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Valuable attributes for a great fighter
Genetically gifted in physical attributes such as strength, endurance, durability, and reflexes
Disciplined and hard-working in training
Mentally tough and determined in the ring
Able to stay cool under fire
Able to pour on the aggression when necessary
Skilled in the relevant fighting art/martial sport
Able to read opponents
Willingness to accept coaching

Valuable attributes for a great coach
Deep understanding of the relevant fighting art/martial sport
Able to accurately evaluate a fighters strengths and weaknesses and design a training program to address those strengths and weaknesses
Understanding of how to best instruct, communicate with, and inspire different individual competitors who have different learning and motivational styles
Understanding the "metagame" of a given martial sport - building a fighters career, picking opponents or events, preparing for specific opponents or events, making sure a fighter is at peak form going into a fight, etc.

As you can see, there's only a limited amount of overlap between the two lists.

Also, I framed this in terms of a martial sport (such as boxing or MMA) because the initial question specified "coach". If you want to think of it in terms of "instructor" for a non-sportive martial art, the answer would be very similar.

 

[Tez3]

Whoops I meant Ross pointon always get the 2 confused but I'm sure you know him as well

Yep I know him. You have to remember that UK MMA is a very, very small world. There were two big shows, Cage Rage and Cagewarriors of which the latter is the only one still going, everybody fought on one or the other or both of these shows. There are still smaller promotions but the pool of MMA fighters is still a small one, larger for the men but it's still difficult for the women to find opponents. Ross Pearson lives up near me but Ross Pointon is from Stoke, much further away so we didn't see much of him.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Yep I know him. You have to remember that UK MMA is a very, very small world. There were two big shows, Cage Rage and Cagewarriors of which the latter is the only one still going, everybody fought on one or the other or both of these shows. There are still smaller promotions but the pool of MMA fighters is still a small one, larger for the men but it's still difficult for the women to find opponents. Ross Pearson lives up near me but Ross Pointon is from Stoke, much further away so we didn't see much of him.

Fair enough and yeah my bad I always get them mixed up lol similar names similar appearance both on the ultimate fighter both English but yeah I meant pointon what was he 7-13 I think hey from what I heard he was a decent kick boxer but couldn't really do great when it came to mma no shame in that it's not for everyone but what I saw he's a decent enough coach at his own gym.

 

[Tez3]

Fair enough and yeah my bad I always get them mixed up lol similar names similar appearance both on the ultimate fighter both English but yeah I meant pointon what was he 7-13 I think hey from what I heard he was a decent kick boxer but couldn't really do great when it came to mma no shame in that it's not for everyone but what I saw he's a decent enough coach at his own gym.

Ross Pointon is from a San Shou background, something I know very little about whereas the other Ross is from TKD, Judo and BJJ.
Ross Pointon lost to Bisping on an armbar, perhaps now you understand why I said that Bisping's opponents weren't the best available.

You don't need to have been a fighter to coach but it helps immensely if you can relate to being in there fighting. There's only so much techniques you can teach but to know the inside the mind set needed to fight is invaluable.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You don't need to have been a fighter to coach but it helps immensely if you can relate to being in there fighting. There's only so much techniques you can teach but to know the inside the mind set needed to fight is invaluable.

I agree it helps if you've practiced what you're teaching, but the very best coaches don't seem to be the very best competitors, in most cases, and in most sports.
And this applies to things other than sports.
I work with a woman who is an absolutely brilliant diagnostician. She has an encyclopedic knowledge of all sorts of obscure disease processes.
But she cannot explain anything in simple English to save her own life.

 

[Tez3]

I think fighters like their coach to have some fighting experience. The coaches may be the best there is and not have any fights behind them but the fighter's perception is that the coach knows more and is better with a fight record. Fighters feel that other fighters understand them best, not necessarily true of course but a coach with a fight record probably has to work harder to start with to persuade fighters they know their job.

 

[JR 137]

Valuable attributes for a great fighter
Genetically gifted in physical attributes such as strength, endurance, durability, and reflexes
Disciplined and hard-working in training
Mentally tough and determined in the ring
Able to stay cool under fire
Able to pour on the aggression when necessary
Skilled in the relevant fighting art/martial sport
Able to read opponents
Willingness to accept coaching

Valuable attributes for a great coach
Deep understanding of the relevant fighting art/martial sport
Able to accurately evaluate a fighters strengths and weaknesses and design a training program to address those strengths and weaknesses
Understanding of how to best instruct, communicate with, and inspire different individual competitors who have different learning and motivational styles
Understanding the "metagame" of a given martial sport - building a fighters career, picking opponents or events, preparing for specific opponents or events, making sure a fighter is at peak form going into a fight, etc.

As you can see, there's only a limited amount of overlap between the two lists.

Also, I framed this in terms of a martial sport (such as boxing or MMA) because the initial question specified "coach". If you want to think of it in terms of "instructor" for a non-sportive martial art, the answer would be very similar.

This, all day.

A coach needs to be able to pick apart their athletes' strengths and weakness. They need to recognize flaws/mistakes and know how to correct them. They need to recognize the weaknesses of the opponent and come up with a game plan that their athlete is capable of implementing.

They need to know how to motivate their athletes. When and how hard to push, and when to back off.

A coach sees what the athlete can't see.

A coach doesn't need to physically be able to do what they're teaching. They can get others to demonstrate it; they just need to be able to see it and explain it.

I don't think it's a coincidence that hall of fame athletes rarely, if ever become hall of fame coaches. I honestly can't think of a single one in any sport. Of all of the great athletes I've seen, I think Larry Bird probably had the best coaching career.

Then again, there's a ton of professional sports coaches who had some pro playing experience.

 

[drop bear]

I think fighters like their coach to have some fighting experience. The coaches may be the best there is and not have any fights behind them but the fighter's perception is that the coach knows more and is better with a fight record. Fighters feel that other fighters understand them best, not necessarily true of course but a coach with a fight record probably has to work harder to start with to persuade fighters they know their job.

There has to be fighters in the mix somewhere. So you still need to be training with fighters even if your coach is not one.

So it can depend a bit on the dynamics of the club.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Then again, there's a ton of professional sports coaches who had some pro playing experience

I think there are very few coaches who coach a sport and have never actually played the sport before. I know grade schools may have this situation due to lack of staff, but when it comes to professional level coaching, the coaches are going to have some kind of experience with the sport. It would almost be a requirement because the coach would need to be able to pick up the sly stuff that fighters like to do, and that ability usually comes from having personal experience of actually fighting on some kind of competitive level.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

The main advantage a former fighter coach would have over a non-fighter coach are they would have a greater understanding of the psychological elements of being in a ring fight. The mechanics and physics of fighting can be relatively easily understood, but it's hard to understand what it feels like mentally to be in a fight until you've actually experienced it for yourself.