Disappointing grading

[Headhunter]

What I meant was the instructor, or whoever was in charge there, should have beaten that man within in an inch of his life for saying that to a visiting panel member on a rank test.

And I ain't buying any "maybe he didn't hear it" b.s. either.

I'm still kind of stunned at the whole thing. Maybe I need to get out more.

Tbh this is happening to much in kenpo (I know it's not just kenpo but yeah) rank is given out for nothing. I saw a 4th Dan get promoted to 5th after doing 1 class after about 8 years out and didn't even do much but the guy was a drinking buddy of the instructors. I never knew ed Parker sadly but from everything I've read he'd be very disappointed with kenpo today. It's not adapted and moved forward and there's so many 10th dans now it's ridiculous and only a few genuinely deserve the rank. I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the seniors because I don't care that much but the only 2 I can think of who deserve it are Bob white and lee wedlake. There's probably a few but I don't know them.

I still like kenpo for what it is and beliege it is a great style even if it hasn't evolved the stuff still works to a degree but there's far to much ego and crap like that around. Even ed Parker Jr. Said he believes his dad would hate kenpo right now. It's a shame because I love kenpo but there's to much crap for me to train it full time now and it's a shame

 

[Deleted member 39746]

What I meant was the instructor, or whoever was in charge there, should have beaten that man within in an inch of his life for saying that to a visiting panel member on a rank test.

And I ain't buying any "maybe he didn't hear it" b.s. either.

I'm still kind of stunned at the whole thing. Maybe I need to get out more.

Now i just thought of a image of a angry Filipino jumping out of a barrel and thrashing someone with a bamboo cane. Dont ask me why it has to be a filipino, but i wonder what i have eaten to think of such a thing. Maybe i was thinking of a Filipino equivalence of what would happen. Actually that might be it, or its a fever day dream either way.

By the way as far as i know a bamboo cane wouldnt run a high risk of breaking anything, it would just hurt like hell, even more so if the blows are pulled.

To be fair i have the kind of view to earn a high belt you should do a 100 man kumite or equal to it. So in essence get worn down to hell. (not strickly reserving it for the high belts, but only mandating it to get certain titles)

 

[mrt2]

not for myself but I asked by a friend who runs a kenpo dojo to assist in a grading for a guy for his 1st degree brown belt (1 before black belt) so I agreed and honestly was not impressed with what I saw.

The guys basics were sloppy and lacked any power or sharpness.

His forms he got 4 out of 8 completely wrong and others he got lost halfway through.

His techniques well he couldn't remember most of them and the ones he did do were either wrong in the way he did totally the wrong movements or they were very slow and robotic. It got so bad with the names they switched his place in the technique line. He was at the front because he was testing but instead they put him at the back so in their own words "he can see what the technique is" and it still didn't improve anything. Now I know your not expected to be perfect but when you're going for that high a level you should at least know each move even if they're not amazing you should at least know what you're meant to do and he didn't.


So at the end they asked my opinion on if he should pass. I said no because he'd made so many mistakes he'd shown very little competence I didn't believe there was any way he deserved that rank. Plus he'd acted very cocky during the test when the head instructor gave him advice he just scoffed and rolled his eyes and had 0 control and gave his partner a black eye. All of that added up to me saying hell no.

But....long story short my opinion meant nothing and they promoted him and then started saying nonsense like that was the best grading they'd ever seen....well if it was I'd hate to have seen the worst.

Through all of it had this really arrogant look on his face like duh of course I passed he even said. "Thanks sir I'll be ready for my black belt by the end of summer" and he wasn't joking either.

But yeah after the grading he came up to me so I just shook his hand and said well done. He asked what I thought of his performance because I hadn't said anything in the presentation (funnily enough they never asked me to say anything)

So I was honest I'm not one for bs or blowing smoke up people's backside being honest is the best way in my opinion plus the fact he was acting so cocky I said well honestly if I was in charge I wouldn't have passed you and I gave him my reasons i already stated and ooh he looked pissed the fake cocky smile was totally gone and he said well I don't give a f___ what you think you're just some has been second Dan and then walked off....man I was fuming but I left it. Luckily I'm more I'm more in control with my emotions now than I was years after my wife died because I nearly said well if your so good get your gloves on and lets get on the mat. But that would've been a stupid and childish thing to do especially at a club I'm not part of. Like I said I'm way more in control now .

Very disappointed in my friend because I always thought he was a guy who never gave away rank. Very disappointing

I think a sit down with your friend who runs the dojo is in order. Not necessarily in an accusatory manor, but just an explanation from him why he would ask you to assist in a grading, but then pretty much ignore your input? Has the curicullum changed?

Anyhow I can relate. I am not an instructor, but rather just working my way up through the ranks at my Tae Kwon Do school, and even there, I see a lot of kids especially getting promoted when they should fail. When I did Tang Soo Do 36 years ago, there were things people do now that wouldn't fly back then. Like failing to execute basic stances (front, back and horse stances), punches, and especially in Korean martial arts, kicks. I see kids who can't do a basic front stance, kids and adults whose side kicks look like roundhouse kicks, or whose roundhouse kicks look like modified front kicks. I remember a time when you didn't advance to kicks until you could block and punch out of a front stance. Then you learned to kick out of a back stance. And you didn't do a roundhouse kick until you learned how to properly do a front kick. Didn't learn a side kick until you could do a decent roundhouse kick.

So I asked one of the instructors how kids are getting up into and even past the intermediate ranks making these basic mistakes. She said that you can't drill kids the way they used to drill adults. She is right that most kids do get this stuff straightened out by the time they reach the higher ranks. But not always. I attended my school's black belt testing this weekend both to support some of my fellow students, and to prepare myself mentally for what lies ahead for me. And even though I don't know all the black belt curicullum yet, I did spot issues in some of the younger students' technique. Like one kid, otherwise pretty good but something was off in the way he did his beginning forms. Then I saw what it was. This kid's feet are off on his front stance. His front stance looks like a wide back stance with the feet turned partially forward, but sometimes not at all. Somehow, his sloppy white belt front stances never did get corrected even though this kid was going for probationary black belt. Somewhere between high white belt and green belt, someone should have told this kid he wasn't passing another test until he could go from front stance to back stance back to front stance. (BTW, our form Chun Ji does this). I suspect though, they make accomodations for young kids.

So I am thinking about this issue of standards the higher I go through the colored belt ranks. It is only a matter of time before I test for high brown and eventually probationary black belt. I want to uphold the standards I learned way back when I was a teenager, but I worry that at age 53, I will fall short. Will they make accomodations for middle aged men? I hope not.

 

[skribs]

If there were other problems that warranted some leeway, those should have been shared with the visiting reviewer, too.

Our tests are usually judged by a mix of my Master, me, and the other primary instructor at our school, as well as a few of the black belts who don't help out with classes that much. There are a few students at my school that have some issues with the testing material. Sometimes it's a hearing/understanding issue (i.e. ESL or partially deaf), sometimes it's a learning or developmental disability. The three of us I mentioned first know who these kids are, but the rest of the judges don't. Typically, when he is handing out the papers to grade, my Master will keep those special cases or he'll give them to me or the other primary instructor, because we know what to expect from these students.

Doesn’t sound like a very good situation. I get pretty irritated when someone asks my opinion, then completely ignores it. I guess they’re looking for confirmation of their decision more than any actual opinion.

This is every day working in IT. Even before I worked IT, people knew me as the computer guy. I had one guy say "hey, I know you built your own computer. I built mine, and it doesn't start up." (Then he described what happened when he tried).
I asked him what video card and motherboard he had, and it turns out it was the same ones I had first tried and it didn't work. "I had the same problem, that particular video card doesn't work with that motherboard. Just return it and get the same card made by a different brand and it'll work."

Two weeks later "hey, I know you built your own computer. I built mine, and it doesn't start up."
"It's probably your video card, you should return it and get the same card made by a different brand."
"Oh, yeah, you said that last time I asked."
THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU DO THAT BEFORE ASKING ME AGAIN!!!!

What I meant was the instructor, or whoever was in charge there, should have beaten that man within in an inch of his life for saying that to a visiting panel member on a rank test.

And I ain't buying any "maybe he didn't hear it" b.s. either.

I'm still kind of stunned at the whole thing. Maybe I need to get out more.

It sounds like it was a private conversation after the test, so it might not have been in earshot of the instructor. Still, I agree that kind of talk has no business in a Martial Arts school.

 

[DocWard]

not for myself but I asked by a friend who runs a kenpo dojo to assist in a grading for a guy for his 1st degree brown belt (1 before black belt) so I agreed and honestly was not impressed with what I saw.

The guys basics were sloppy and lacked any power or sharpness.

His forms he got 4 out of 8 completely wrong and others he got lost halfway through.

His techniques well he couldn't remember most of them and the ones he did do were either wrong in the way he did totally the wrong movements or they were very slow and robotic. It got so bad with the names they switched his place in the technique line. He was at the front because he was testing but instead they put him at the back so in their own words "he can see what the technique is" and it still didn't improve anything. Now I know your not expected to be perfect but when you're going for that high a level you should at least know each move even if they're not amazing you should at least know what you're meant to do and he didn't.


So at the end they asked my opinion on if he should pass. I said no because he'd made so many mistakes he'd shown very little competence I didn't believe there was any way he deserved that rank. Plus he'd acted very cocky during the test when the head instructor gave him advice he just scoffed and rolled his eyes and had 0 control and gave his partner a black eye. All of that added up to me saying hell no.

But....long story short my opinion meant nothing and they promoted him and then started saying nonsense like that was the best grading they'd ever seen....well if it was I'd hate to have seen the worst.

Through all of it had this really arrogant look on his face like duh of course I passed he even said. "Thanks sir I'll be ready for my black belt by the end of summer" and he wasn't joking either.

But yeah after the grading he came up to me so I just shook his hand and said well done. He asked what I thought of his performance because I hadn't said anything in the presentation (funnily enough they never asked me to say anything)

So I was honest I'm not one for bs or blowing smoke up people's backside being honest is the best way in my opinion plus the fact he was acting so cocky I said well honestly if I was in charge I wouldn't have passed you and I gave him my reasons i already stated and ooh he looked pissed the fake cocky smile was totally gone and he said well I don't give a f___ what you think you're just some has been second Dan and then walked off....man I was fuming but I left it. Luckily I'm more I'm more in control with my emotions now than I was years after my wife died because I nearly said well if your so good get your gloves on and lets get on the mat. But that would've been a stupid and childish thing to do especially at a club I'm not part of. Like I said I'm way more in control now .

Very disappointed in my friend because I always thought he was a guy who never gave away rank. Very disappointing

As a Kenpo stylist, I find this very disappointing. I can only relate it to my current journey and it saddens me to imagine myself in the positions of any of you involved, you, your friend the instructor, or the student himself. As most people here know, I'm working toward my black belt after over twenty years away. The good news is, my sparring skills, when I go up against other brown belts and black belts who do the tournament circuit, seem to be coming back and I am doing fairly well. I will go so far as to say I feel competitive, and I am pleased with everything in sparring except my flexibility!

It currently seems my instructor only plans to test me over the material covered between 1st degree brown and 1st degree black, and then turn back to review the things I learned so long ago. If he is comfortable with doing so, given he is independent now, then I will defer to him. I get the feeling that part of his thinking is he is 74, and I am 53, and neither is getting any younger. He also knows I don't have any intention of teaching, just continuing my studies. From my past tests, and current training, I know he won't let me slide on a test like you have described, and I don't expect him to. I don't think I could accept it if I didn't earn it in my own mind. Having said that, once I have the material under my belt, I plan on practicing until I'm sure I'm ready, whether he asks if I am ready or not. It's the journey, not the destination that is important to me at this point.

I concur with others, a quiet, non-confrontational conversation may be in order here.

Tbh this is happening to much in kenpo (I know it's not just kenpo but yeah) rank is given out for nothing. I saw a 4th Dan get promoted to 5th after doing 1 class after about 8 years out and didn't even do much but the guy was a drinking buddy of the instructors. I never knew ed Parker sadly but from everything I've read he'd be very disappointed with kenpo today. It's not adapted and moved forward and there's so many 10th dans now it's ridiculous and only a few genuinely deserve the rank. I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the seniors because I don't care that much but the only 2 I can think of who deserve it are Bob white and lee wedlake. There's probably a few but I don't know them.

I've never met Bob White, but I have nothing but positive things to say about Mr. Wedlake. His level of knowledge, his ability to articulate concepts and his physical abilities are right up there with the best.

I still like kenpo for what it is and beliege it is a great style even if it hasn't evolved the stuff still works to a degree but there's far to much ego and crap like that around. Even ed Parker Jr. Said he believes his dad would hate kenpo right now. It's a shame because I love kenpo but there's to much crap for me to train it full time now and it's a shame

I do see it evolving, at least as it is taught by some. I know my instructor has brought concepts from aikijujutsu into his teaching, as he believes some of them either complement or are superior to some of the techniques taught in Kenpo. Obviously, there's Jeff Speakman, who, regardless of one's opinions, has sought to evolve Kenpo.

 

[Headhunter]

As a Kenpo stylist, I find this very disappointing. I can only relate it to my current journey and it saddens me to imagine myself in the positions of any of you involved, you, your friend the instructor, or the student himself. As most people here know, I'm working toward my black belt after over twenty years away. The good news is, my sparring skills, when I go up against other brown belts and black belts who do the tournament circuit, seem to be coming back and I am doing fairly well. I will go so far as to say I feel competitive, and I am pleased with everything in sparring except my flexibility!

It currently seems my instructor only plans to test me over the material covered between 1st degree brown and 1st degree black, and then turn back to review the things I learned so long ago. If he is comfortable with doing so, given he is independent now, then I will defer to him. I get the feeling that part of his thinking is he is 74, and I am 53, and neither is getting any younger. He also knows I don't have any intention of teaching, just continuing my studies. From my past tests, and current training, I know he won't let me slide on a test like you have described, and I don't expect him to. I don't think I could accept it if I didn't earn it in my own mind. Having said that, once I have the material under my belt, I plan on practicing until I'm sure I'm ready, whether he asks if I am ready or not. It's the journey, not the destination that is important to me at this point.

I concur with others, a quiet, non-confrontational conversation may be in order here.



I've never met Bob White, but I have nothing but positive things to say about Mr. Wedlake. His level of knowledge, his ability to articulate concepts and his physical abilities are right up there with the best.



I do see it evolving, at least as it is taught by some. I know my instructor has brought concepts from aikijujutsu into his teaching, as he believes some of them either complement or are superior to some of the techniques taught in Kenpo. Obviously, there's Jeff Speakman, who, regardless of one's opinions, has sought to evolve Kenpo.

Of course there's people who evolve it but the vast majority are terrified to do it because it means they'd dare go against ed Parker which in fact by doing that is exactly what they're doing. The reason I've seen that speakman isn't liked is because he's done his own thing. I've never met him but I respect that he has the balls to change things. But I also believe some techniques should be completely wiped off the syllabus because they're ineffective and frankly they're dangerous and if you try them in a real situation you could be seriously hurt or killed. Now I know kenpos techniques aren't always meant to be used as taught but as they are taught should still be effective and okay to use if needed but some especially some knife and gun techniques they'll get you killed in real life. But the reason they're in there is for nonsense like category completion...now personally I don't give a ratsass about category completion kenpo is a self defence system and that's where the priority should lie that's why I'm more into Krav Maga now their whole focus is self defence and none of the other crap. Sometimes Krav Magas techniques can be boring because they're so simple but in reality that's the most important thing

 

[DocWard]

Of course there's people who evolve it but the vast majority are terrified to do it because it means they'd dare go against ed Parker which in fact by doing that is exactly what they're doing. The reason I've seen that speakman isn't liked is because he's done his own thing. I've never met him but I respect that he has the balls to change things. But I also believe some techniques should be completely wiped off the syllabus because they're ineffective and frankly they're dangerous and if you try them in a real situation you could be seriously hurt or killed. Now I know kenpos techniques aren't always meant to be used as taught but as they are taught should still be effective and okay to use if needed but some especially some knife and gun techniques they'll get you killed in real life. But the reason they're in there is for nonsense like category completion...now personally I don't give a ratsass about category completion kenpo is a self defence system and that's where the priority should lie that's why I'm more into Krav Maga now their whole focus is self defence and none of the other crap. Sometimes Krav Magas techniques can be boring because they're so simple but in reality that's the most important thing

I agree that, from everything I know, Mr. Parker expected Kenpo to evolve. I also don't have a negative opinion of Mr. Speakman, although I know plenty that do. I've never met him, and I agree, he is trying to move the art forward, which can only be a good thing.

As I mentioned, my instructor has brought certain techniques into his curriculum. Some of them involve weapons disarms for that reason. Going over some gun disarm techniques, he (and I) reached the conclusion that they are problematic as well.

I will continue with Kenpo for a long time to come. I enjoy the sparring, I enjoy the forms, and I enjoy the hard/soft linear/circular aspects of it. It is a good fit for me, and I believe if I am realistic and continue to look at specific techniques with a critical eye, if the need ever arises, it should serve me well.

 

[_Simon_]

not for myself but I asked by a friend who runs a kenpo dojo to assist in a grading for a guy for his 1st degree brown belt (1 before black belt) so I agreed and honestly was not impressed with what I saw.

The guys basics were sloppy and lacked any power or sharpness.

His forms he got 4 out of 8 completely wrong and others he got lost halfway through.

His techniques well he couldn't remember most of them and the ones he did do were either wrong in the way he did totally the wrong movements or they were very slow and robotic. It got so bad with the names they switched his place in the technique line. He was at the front because he was testing but instead they put him at the back so in their own words "he can see what the technique is" and it still didn't improve anything. Now I know your not expected to be perfect but when you're going for that high a level you should at least know each move even if they're not amazing you should at least know what you're meant to do and he didn't.


So at the end they asked my opinion on if he should pass. I said no because he'd made so many mistakes he'd shown very little competence I didn't believe there was any way he deserved that rank. Plus he'd acted very cocky during the test when the head instructor gave him advice he just scoffed and rolled his eyes and had 0 control and gave his partner a black eye. All of that added up to me saying hell no.

But....long story short my opinion meant nothing and they promoted him and then started saying nonsense like that was the best grading they'd ever seen....well if it was I'd hate to have seen the worst.

Through all of it had this really arrogant look on his face like duh of course I passed he even said. "Thanks sir I'll be ready for my black belt by the end of summer" and he wasn't joking either.

But yeah after the grading he came up to me so I just shook his hand and said well done. He asked what I thought of his performance because I hadn't said anything in the presentation (funnily enough they never asked me to say anything)

So I was honest I'm not one for bs or blowing smoke up people's backside being honest is the best way in my opinion plus the fact he was acting so cocky I said well honestly if I was in charge I wouldn't have passed you and I gave him my reasons i already stated and ooh he looked pissed the fake cocky smile was totally gone and he said well I don't give a f___ what you think you're just some has been second Dan and then walked off....man I was fuming but I left it. Luckily I'm more I'm more in control with my emotions now than I was years after my wife died because I nearly said well if your so good get your gloves on and lets get on the mat. But that would've been a stupid and childish thing to do especially at a club I'm not part of. Like I said I'm way more in control now .

Very disappointed in my friend because I always thought he was a guy who never gave away rank. Very disappointing

That's really disheartening hey... but dang, good on ya for being honest, takes alot of courage.

Going for that high a rank, and the mistakes made and lack of knowledge displayed (not to mention the arroagance), I certainly wouldn't have passed him either. It does nothing for the art, does nothing of benefit to him, and also nothing for the people he trains with as a role model and a display of what it means to be at that rank.

Sorry to hear dude, but thanks for sharing that

 

[_Simon_]

I have also always wondered about how some people just have different technical abilities compared to others when going for high ranks... some are just not as strong or accurate in their technique as others, no matter how long they train, so I've always wondered what the basis is when awarding rank if that's the case. I've seen people get high ranks that weren't the sharpest in technique and are no way near some others in terms of ability, but perhaps relatively speaking they have improved dramatically from when they started?

But a topic for another time!

 

[PhotonGuy]

not for myself but I asked by a friend who runs a kenpo dojo to assist in a grading for a guy for his 1st degree brown belt (1 before black belt) so I agreed and honestly was not impressed with what I saw.

The guys basics were sloppy and lacked any power or sharpness.

His forms he got 4 out of 8 completely wrong and others he got lost halfway through.

His techniques well he couldn't remember most of them and the ones he did do were either wrong in the way he did totally the wrong movements or they were very slow and robotic. It got so bad with the names they switched his place in the technique line. He was at the front because he was testing but instead they put him at the back so in their own words "he can see what the technique is" and it still didn't improve anything. Now I know your not expected to be perfect but when you're going for that high a level you should at least know each move even if they're not amazing you should at least know what you're meant to do and he didn't.


So at the end they asked my opinion on if he should pass. I said no because he'd made so many mistakes he'd shown very little competence I didn't believe there was any way he deserved that rank. Plus he'd acted very cocky during the test when the head instructor gave him advice he just scoffed and rolled his eyes and had 0 control and gave his partner a black eye. All of that added up to me saying hell no.

But....long story short my opinion meant nothing and they promoted him and then started saying nonsense like that was the best grading they'd ever seen....well if it was I'd hate to have seen the worst.

Through all of it had this really arrogant look on his face like duh of course I passed he even said. "Thanks sir I'll be ready for my black belt by the end of summer" and he wasn't joking either.

But yeah after the grading he came up to me so I just shook his hand and said well done. He asked what I thought of his performance because I hadn't said anything in the presentation (funnily enough they never asked me to say anything)

So I was honest I'm not one for bs or blowing smoke up people's backside being honest is the best way in my opinion plus the fact he was acting so cocky I said well honestly if I was in charge I wouldn't have passed you and I gave him my reasons i already stated and ooh he looked pissed the fake cocky smile was totally gone and he said well I don't give a f___ what you think you're just some has been second Dan and then walked off....man I was fuming but I left it. Luckily I'm more I'm more in control with my emotions now than I was years after my wife died because I nearly said well if your so good get your gloves on and lets get on the mat. But that would've been a stupid and childish thing to do especially at a club I'm not part of. Like I said I'm way more in control now .

Very disappointed in my friend because I always thought he was a guy who never gave away rank. Very disappointing

From what you said it sounds like they do give away rank at the school you've described and as for me, I wouldn't be wasting my time there. In my opinion, at a good martial arts school the guy in your story wouldn't last there as a student, much less get promoted.

 

[JR 137]

I have also always wondered about how some people just have different technical abilities compared to others when going for high ranks... some are just not as strong or accurate in their technique as others, no matter how long they train, so I've always wondered what the basis is when awarding rank if that's the case. I've seen people get high ranks that weren't the sharpest in technique and are no way near some others in terms of ability, but perhaps relatively speaking they have improved dramatically from when they started?

But a topic for another time!

In a sense, I think it’s like having different players on a video game. Take a boxing video game - the character has A points for strength, B points for stamina, C points for speed, D points for power, and so on. No two boxers in the game have the same amount of points for each attribute, but many have the same total points.

Look at a rank like needing X overall points, regardless of how they’re distributed across the various attributes. Within reason, of course. And where one attribute isn’t so low that it doesn’t matter how high the rest are because they can’t possibly compensate.

We’ve got a few people who are relatively high ranks who are older in the dojo. Knee replacements, spine and neck surgeries, etc. over the years. If you walked in off the streets and saw any of them, you’d think were giving away rank solely for long term effort and tuition payment. You wouldn’t see what they were before their bodies started breaking down. You wouldn’t see how they evolved their karate to still be functional despite the obstacles. All you’d see was what looks like some halfassed kihon line drills and kata, and more able guys and ladies trying to beat them with speed while they just hang in there and wait for the right moment. You wouldn’t feel every shot you took with every mistake you made.

I don’t know about everyone else out there, but I know the ones where I am earned it and continue to earn it the hard way. Sitting in a chair and watching them, they suck. Standing next to them during kihon, they’re awful. Actually training alongside them and sparring with them for a length of time, and you realize how talented they actually are if you actually let yourself see it by not looking for prettiness or flashiness.

When bury their mawashi geri into your ribs or thigh, or bury their shita tsuki into your liver and you’re wondering what the hell you just got hit with, the last thing on your mind is how pretty their technique looked.

General you, not you personally.

 

[Buka]

In a sense, I think it’s like having different players on a video game. Take a boxing video game - the character has A points for strength, B points for stamina, C points for speed, D points for power, and so on. No two boxers in the game have the same amount of points for each attribute, but many have the same total points.

Look at a rank like needing X overall points, regardless of how they’re distributed across the various attributes. Within reason, of course. And where one attribute isn’t so low that it doesn’t matter how high the rest are because they can’t possibly compensate.

We’ve got a few people who are relatively high ranks who are older in the dojo. Knee replacements, spine and neck surgeries, etc. over the years. If you walked in off the streets and saw any of them, you’d think were giving away rank solely for long term effort and tuition payment. You wouldn’t see what they were before their bodies started breaking down. You wouldn’t see how they evolved their karate to still be functional despite the obstacles. All you’d see was what looks like some halfassed kihon line drills and kata, and more able guys and ladies trying to beat them with speed while they just hang in there and wait for the right moment. You wouldn’t feel every shot you took with every mistake you made.

I don’t know about everyone else out there, but I know the ones where I am earned it and continue to earn it the hard way. Sitting in a chair and watching them, they suck. Standing next to them during kihon, they’re awful. Actually training alongside them and sparring with them for a length of time, and you realize how talented they actually are if you actually let yourself see it by not looking for prettiness or flashiness.

When bury their mawashi geri into your ribs or thigh, or bury their shita tsuki into your liver and you’re wondering what the hell you just got hit with, the last thing on your mind is how pretty their technique looked.

General you, not you personally.

Well said, brother.

 

[JR 137]

Well said, brother.

I try. Once in a while I surprise myself

 

[dvcochran]

In a sense, I think it’s like having different players on a video game. Take a boxing video game - the character has A points for strength, B points for stamina, C points for speed, D points for power, and so on. No two boxers in the game have the same amount of points for each attribute, but many have the same total points.

Look at a rank like needing X overall points, regardless of how they’re distributed across the various attributes. Within reason, of course. And where one attribute isn’t so low that it doesn’t matter how high the rest are because they can’t possibly compensate.

We’ve got a few people who are relatively high ranks who are older in the dojo. Knee replacements, spine and neck surgeries, etc. over the years. If you walked in off the streets and saw any of them, you’d think were giving away rank solely for long term effort and tuition payment. You wouldn’t see what they were before their bodies started breaking down. You wouldn’t see how they evolved their karate to still be functional despite the obstacles. All you’d see was what looks like some halfassed kihon line drills and kata, and more able guys and ladies trying to beat them with speed while they just hang in there and wait for the right moment. You wouldn’t feel every shot you took with every mistake you made.

I don’t know about everyone else out there, but I know the ones where I am earned it and continue to earn it the hard way. Sitting in a chair and watching them, they suck. Standing next to them during kihon, they’re awful. Actually training alongside them and sparring with them for a length of time, and you realize how talented they actually are if you actually let yourself see it by not looking for prettiness or flashiness.

When bury their mawashi geri into your ribs or thigh, or bury their shita tsuki into your liver and you’re wondering what the hell you just got hit with, the last thing on your mind is how pretty their technique looked.

General you, not you personally.

Man, that is right on point. Some people just haven't been around long enough to appreciate this fact.

 

[Yokozuna514]

In a sense, I think it’s like having different players on a video game. Take a boxing video game - the character has A points for strength, B points for stamina, C points for speed, D points for power, and so on. No two boxers in the game have the same amount of points for each attribute, but many have the same total points.

Look at a rank like needing X overall points, regardless of how they’re distributed across the various attributes. Within reason, of course. And where one attribute isn’t so low that it doesn’t matter how high the rest are because they can’t possibly compensate.

We’ve got a few people who are relatively high ranks who are older in the dojo. Knee replacements, spine and neck surgeries, etc. over the years. If you walked in off the streets and saw any of them, you’d think were giving away rank solely for long term effort and tuition payment. You wouldn’t see what they were before their bodies started breaking down. You wouldn’t see how they evolved their karate to still be functional despite the obstacles. All you’d see was what looks like some halfassed kihon line drills and kata, and more able guys and ladies trying to beat them with speed while they just hang in there and wait for the right moment. You wouldn’t feel every shot you took with every mistake you made.

I don’t know about everyone else out there, but I know the ones where I am earned it and continue to earn it the hard way. Sitting in a chair and watching them, they suck. Standing next to them during kihon, they’re awful. Actually training alongside them and sparring with them for a length of time, and you realize how talented they actually are if you actually let yourself see it by not looking for prettiness or flashiness.

When bury their mawashi geri into your ribs or thigh, or bury their shita tsuki into your liver and you’re wondering what the hell you just got hit with, the last thing on your mind is how pretty their technique looked.

General you, not you personally.

What old guys lose in stamina they make up for in guile .

 

[JR 137]

What old guys lose in stamina they make up for in guile .

Yup. They’ve been around long enough to cut through the BS and do what they found works regardless of how it looks. They realize they’re not making a movie or doing a photo shoot.

I’ve got to be more of an old man in a sense. I like how they suck me into going at them while they weather the storm and hit me with a few good shots that would’ve easily dropped me if they went full force. That whole “come and get me” approach. I do the same thing to lower ranks, yet somehow I feel this need to be the aggressor with the higher ranks. I guess it’s because I know they’re not going to come at me, so I have to initiate. Now if there’s a way to make them do it

 

[JR 137]

Yup. They’ve been around long enough to cut through the BS and do what they found works regardless of how it looks. They realize they’re not making a movie or doing a photo shoot.

I’ve got to be more of an old man in a sense. I like how they suck me into going at them while they weather the storm and hit me with a few good shots that would’ve easily dropped me if they went full force. That whole “come and get me” approach. I do the same thing to lower ranks, yet somehow I feel this need to be the aggressor with the higher ranks. I guess it’s because I know they’re not going to come at me, so I have to initiate. Now if there’s a way to make them do it

All this time and I didn’t realize there were all these emojis.

Trying to get the older guys to play my game will most likely end up with me looking like this for a while

 

[Yokozuna514]

Yup. They’ve been around long enough to cut through the BS and do what they found works regardless of how it looks. They realize they’re not making a movie or doing a photo shoot.

I’ve got to be more of an old man in a sense. I like how they suck me into going at them while they weather the storm and hit me with a few good shots that would’ve easily dropped me if they went full force. That whole “come and get me” approach. I do the same thing to lower ranks, yet somehow I feel this need to be the aggressor with the higher ranks. I guess it’s because I know they’re not going to come at me, so I have to initiate. Now if there’s a way to make them do it

In a normal dojo sparring session the lower rank should dictate the pace and tempo of the match. It makes complete sense that they want you to be the aggressor and initiate attacks so that they can help 'show' you the holes in your game.

There definitely is a way to get the older guys to play your game. The question is, are you ready to mess with the bull ?

All this time and I didn’t realize there were all these emojis.

Trying to get the older guys to play my game will most likely end up with me looking like this for a while

They've been around a long time so they more than likely feel like they have nothing to prove. When I started, you could say I was a gamer when it came to sparring and like you I wanted to match with the more experienced fighters at the dojo. I would ask them after every class to 'throw hands' a little when everyone else was changing and getting ready to leave. I learned a lot in those informal sparring sessions. Lessons I put to good use in class.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

All this time and I didn’t realize there were all these emojis.

Trying to get the older guys to play my game will most likely end up with me looking like this for a while

You just figured that out? What have you been doing?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

You just figured that out? What have you been doing?

I haven't got a clue what he has been doing, i frankly think the choice is limited in comparison to live conversation services.