Dimensional Zone Theory

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
A few years ago, I was told by a 1st Black, that he didn't need to use technique to create base diturbance. He told me, "If I punch you in the face, then I know your base is going to be disturbed."

I suppose he was right, but some how I don't think it fits with the different kinds of cancellation described here.

--Dave

:asian:

That's not exactly true either as I've seen lots of guys get punched in the face and not have it disturb the base, but it does provide a momentary depth ck. The same action of using a punch to keep a width and depth ck is also seen in the technique Darting Mace, although at a different level on the body, or at least the way I do it.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[ArnoldLee]

Originally posted by D.Cobb
A few years ago, I was told by a 1st Black, that he didn't need to use technique to create base diturbance. He told me, "If I punch you in the face, then I know your base is going to be disturbed."

I suppose he was right, but some how I don't think it fits with the different kinds of cancellation described here.

--Dave

:asian:

Actually it is the kind of cancellation I'm describing, but for depth.... I'm sorry I must not have been clear in my first post. When Mr. Parker was doing this he did not JUST punch. He would get into a right to right neutral and, as he pulled downward diagonally with his right hand to cancel width and height he would simultaneously thrust with his left hand. This way the person was completely checked out (and in a lot of pain to boot). But I completely agree with you and Clyde in that just punching and not using technique wouldn't fit in with what is being described.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by ArnoldLee
Actually it is the kind of cancellation I'm describing, but for depth.... I'm sorry I must not have been clear in my first post. When Mr. Parker was doing this he did not JUST punch. He would get into a right to right neutral and, as he pulled downward diagonally with his right hand to cancel width and height he would simultaneously thrust with his left hand. This way the person was completely checked out (and in a lot of pain to boot). But I completely agree with you and Clyde in that just punching and not using technique wouldn't fit in with what is being described.

What you're describing is a version of B1a, one of the more commonly taught freestyle techniques in Kenpo.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by Dominic Jones
To check depth zones, you move closer or further away from your attacker by moving yourself, moving your attacker and/or checking their height or width zones. The benefits are protecting your targets and moving their targets into range of your weapons (remember the reverse is also true exposing your targets and moving their targets out of range).

The other benefit of visualizing depth zones is that they allow you to choose the closest targets to attack and so allow you to move through the depth zones to get to arguably more major targets.

Other ways to check depth are stop hits, jams, and strikes. Examples: Stop hit- the double fist strike to his lower ribs in Hooking Wings which stops his forward momentum. Jam- in Calming the Storm we do a heel palm to the right shoulder immediately after the first move (block and punch), which momentarily disrupts his recovery and prevents him moving either forward or back in ballance. Strikes- the claw to the eyes in Thrusting Wedge will inhibit (but probably not stop) forward momentum. But that next move checks all three dimensions. The pull turns him and brings him forward, the elbow stops him in his tracks and raises him up, checking both height and depth.

Now, I have a question. In the first two examples I gave, momentum was clearly stoped and depth checked momentarily. But in TW the wedge and claw inhibited but did not necessarily stop forward momentum. In fact, you don't want it stoped, your objective is to gain control and use it against him. To me, this is still a check because you have controled a deminsion, though not totally until the next move. How do you see this? Would you classify the first move as a full check?

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by ob2c
Other ways to check depth are stop hits, jams, and strikes. Examples: Stop hit- the double fist strike to his lower ribs in Hooking Wings which stops his forward momentum. Jam- in Calming the Storm we do a heel palm to the right shoulder immediately after the first move (block and punch), which momentarily disrupts his recovery and prevents him moving either forward or back in ballance. Strikes- the claw to the eyes in Thrusting Wedge will inhibit (but probably not stop) forward momentum. But that next move checks all three dimensions. The pull turns him and brings him forward, the elbow stops him in his tracks and raises him up, checking both height and depth.

Now, I have a question. In the first two examples I gave, momentum was clearly stoped and depth checked momentarily. But in TW the wedge and claw inhibited but did not necessarily stop forward momentum. In fact, you don't want it stoped, your objective is to gain control and use it against him. To me, this is still a check because you have controled a deminsion, though not totally until the next move. How do you see this? Would you classify the first move as a full check?

I don't know which Hooking Wings you're referring to, the only techniques I know that start the way you mentioned are Thrusting Prongs and Fatal Cross.

I've always turned the finger pokes in Thrusting Wedge into double claw heel palms to get a momentary depth ck. This also gives them time to react to the strike, or more importantly, to monitor, time, and adjust your technique. I then use their right arm and pull down and in to utilize opposing forces with the elbow. When done well, you'll notice their groin hit just above your knee (at least when done on someone close to your height).


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

 

[ob2c]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
I don't know which Hooking Wings you're referring to, the only techniques I know that start the way you mentioned are Thrusting Prongs and Fatal Cross.

From my notes:
Hooking Wings i/s defense > 2 hand low push

*Left foot back to 6:00 into a right neutral bow as both hands hook (crane) inside his wrists. The double hook coupled with your backward momentum, and his forward momentum, pulls his arms out, down, and past your hips.

*Immediately pivot into a right forward bow and deliver a double punch to his lower ribs. This stops his forward momentum.

That is how I learned the first part of Hooking Wings. (The technique continues with the groin kick and figure eight strikes, which are not germain to the discussion- so I won't continue). Do you do this technique differently? Also, do you do a double punch in Thrusting Prongs? If so, is that a variation? I'm having trouble visualizing that strike from a front bear hug, arms pined.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by ob2c
From my notes:
Hooking Wings i/s defense > 2 hand low push

*Left foot back to 6:00 into a right neutral bow as both hands hook (crane) inside his wrists. The double hook coupled with your backward momentum, and his forward momentum, pulls his arms out, down, and past your hips.

*Immediately pivot into a right forward bow and deliver a double punch to his lower ribs. This stops his forward momentum.

That is how I learned the first part of Hooking Wings. (The technique continues with the groin kick and figure eight strikes, which are not germain to the discussion- so I won't continue). Do you do this technique differently? Also, do you do a double punch in Thrusting Prongs? If so, is that a variation? I'm having trouble visualizing that strike from a front bear hug, arms pined.

This was taken from the KenpoNet and it's more or less the way I do it.

1. An attacker at 12 o'clock comes at you with a two-hand low push.

2. Step your left foot back to 6 o'clock as you pull your right back into a cat stance facing 12 o'clock. As you step back, simultaneously execute right and left outward hooking parries, hooking to the inside of your attacker's wrists. Note: This could also be a grab if you wish.

Grafting Flow
Circling Fans
Fatal Cross
3. Execute a right front snap kick to your attacker's groin as you continue the motion of your right arm back and behind you.
4. Land in a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you utilize marriage of gravity and back-up mass and execute a right inward hammerfist across your attacker's nose.

5. Continue the figure-8 motion as you execute a right outward backfist to your attacker's right temple.

6. Shuffle in a bit as you execute a right upward elbow. Note: This adds back-up mass to the strike.

7. Execute a right outward overhead elbow down onto your attacker's sternum as you execute a right overhead claw to your attacker's face.

8. Cross out towards 7:30.
____________________________________________________

Thrusting Prongs (Front- Bear Hug; Arms Pinned)
1. An attacker at 12 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug, and pins your arms.

2. Step back into a left forward bow (dropping your right foot back to 6 o'clock) as you execute simultaneous thumb strikes to your attacker's bladder. (I use Phoenix Eye fists)

3. As your left hand checks your attacker's right arm, have your right hand execute a frictional pull on your attacker's left arm. Simultaneous with this motion, execute a right knee strike to your attacker's groin.

4. Land in a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you execute a right inward elbow to your attacker's face.

5. Cross out towards 7:30.


Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde