Different belt system for kids

[CDKJudoka]

The system that the OP is talking about is a Lil Dragons program. We use that program for 4-7 year olds and it isn't the TKD curriculum. We use the ATA camo belts for our kids. That an none of our kid or teen BBs are Dan ranks, they are Poom ranks. When you come of age, 16, you test for your 1st Dan with the adult curriculum.

This has been touched upon quite a few times. The biggest problem I have with the way the OP wants to structure it is you want to make great yellow belts, not great black belts. I would either incorporate a Lil Dragons/Ninja/Tiger/Bas Rutten program instead of making it 9 ranks to get from white to yellow belt.

 

[GlassJaw]

In the karate school that my youngest was in, the grade requirements
and belts for the youth class (7-12[14?] year-olds) are the same as
for the adult classes, but each rank is divided up into four to five
separate milestones.

Belt order is white, orange, yellow, green, blue?. . . um. . .I forget. . .
maybe chrome, plaid, then fluorescent grey? . . .doesn't matter.

Anyway, an adult off the street would begin training in a white belt,
of course, and after about two to four months, be ready to try
for an orange belt at the next (2 or 3 times a year?) testing.
(I think the other ranks usually take quite a bit longer, but some
people pick up the low-rank fundamentals much more quickly than
others.)

But for the youth class, those same orange belt requirements are
divided up into four achievement stripes: Basics, Kata, Escapes,
Defense Series. (I think some times there's a fifth category, but
I know there's only four for orange.) The stripes can be earned in
any order.

There is a (no-fee) stripe testing about every two months (in place
of regular class--not as a separate event). The instructors evaluate
the students on all the requirements for their next rank (except, of
course, any techniques that the student has not begun studying
yet). Even if the students are nowhere near ready to try for
advancement, the assessment is still a useful exercise.

If the student demonstrated a passing proficiency on one of the
sections of the test for which she does not already have the stripe,
it is awarded to her (at the next class. . .he makes them wait to
find out how they did).

Once the student has earned all four of her orange stripes, she
is eligible to be tested (comprehensively) for the orange belt at
the next regular belt testing. If successful, then she starts working
on earning those yellow stripes to go on her new orange belt.
And so forth with green and the others.

The purpose of dividing up the requirements into stripes is because,
unlike with the typical adult, it usually takes a youth one or two
years to become ready to test for that first belt. For many kids
(and parents, I must say), two years would be a heck of a long
time to go without receiving some tangible sign that their training
is achieving anything. "My child has logged nearly 200 hours of
training here and is still the same rank as that little boy who just
joined last week."

The stripes are indistinguishable; that is, the stripe for orange
belt Kata looks the same as the one for Basics (a strip of orange
electrical tape placed near the belt end, like KKW dan markings).
The student (and instructor, of course) has to keep track of which
particular ones they have so far. (Yes, they do use the number of
stripes for determining precedence when lining up. Three stripes
lines up ahead of two.)

Alternatively, I suppose it would be handy for an instructor if,
instead of just using the color of the next belt rank, the stripes
*were* color-coded so that you could tell at a glance which
requirements a student needed to work on. (I know, the answer
is "all of them, regardless of rank".)

For instance, a lavender stripe on an orange belt means that the
student has proficiency with the yellow belt Kata, whereas a
lavender stripe on a yellow belt would indicate proficiency with
the green belt Kata.

"Well, I had thought that tonight the orange belts would continue
learning their Escapes, but I see that three of you today already
have it, but none of you have the Kata stripe yet, so this would
be a good time for us to work on that some more instead."

But finding an (inexpensive) way to make four or five markings that
would be visibly discernable on each of the 6-8 pre-BB colors would
be tough. (Actually, I think there is a minimum age for the higher
color belts in my daughter's school, so the upper colors might be
usable for that purpose.) Honestly, though, while I do like the idea
of achievement stripes for youths, I don't really think that having
quite the level of differentiation that I have just suggested here
(with the different color for each category) would be a good idea,
especially since it doesn't exist at all in standard classes.

Dan

 

[ACJ]

This has been touched upon quite a few times. The biggest problem I have with the way the OP wants to structure it is you want to make great yellow belts, not great black belts. I would either incorporate a Lil Dragons/Ninja/Tiger/Bas Rutten program instead of making it 9 ranks to get from white to yellow belt.

What's the problem with great yellow belts? Basically the idea is that in these nine ranks, the kids are learning a whole range of things, not just yellow belt syllabus, but leaving out things they can't do yet due to their age, the problem I see with the lil whatever programs, is that they will leave out the testing of adult grade material but still promote them. Is that how they do it? Anyway that means you don't have a standard. Or maybe a bad one.

 

[granfire]

What's the problem with great yellow belts? Basically the idea is that in these nine ranks, the kids are learning a whole range of things, not just yellow belt syllabus, but leaving out things they can't do yet due to their age, the problem I see with the lil whatever programs, is that they will leave out the testing of adult grade material but still promote them. Is that how they do it? Anyway that means you don't have a standard. Or maybe a bad one.

well, no. the ITA program teaches them age appropriate things, trains their bodies and minds, and then graduates them into the whitebelt rank.

We are talking 3-6 yo kids. (after that they are on even par with the adults, only once they go for higher BB ranks there are age limitations, but then they test on a national level as well, and that is no cake walk.)

 

[CDKJudoka]

What's the problem with great yellow belts? Basically the idea is that in these nine ranks, the kids are learning a whole range of things, not just yellow belt syllabus, but leaving out things they can't do yet due to their age, the problem I see with the lil whatever programs, is that they will leave out the testing of adult grade material but still promote them. Is that how they do it? Anyway that means you don't have a standard. Or maybe a bad one.

They don't get promoted into the with adult ranks in the Kids programs. They have their own belt ranking that doesn't translate over to the gup ranks. They only get a gup rank when they get out of that particular age bracket, and that is never anything higher than a 9th gup (yellow belt). Having 9 ranks to go through just to get to a 9th gup is just excessive. I would save that for the higher ranks, because you will just discourage your students and the parents when they see all of this work that they are going through and they are still white belts.

 

[Nomad]

They don't get promoted into the with adult ranks in the Kids programs. They have their own belt ranking that doesn't translate over to the gup ranks. They only get a gup rank when they get out of that particular age bracket, and that is never anything higher than a 9th gup (yellow belt). Having 9 ranks to go through just to get to a 9th gup is just excessive. I would save that for the higher ranks, because you will just discourage your students and the parents when they see all of this work that they are going through and they are still white belts.

That doesn't have to be the case, and depends on how you setup the Jr belt system. In our school, there is a rough translation guide (that X belt in the 6-9 yo program goes to Y belt in the 9-12, and Y becomes Z in the teens and adults program), so there is credit given for time served, and there is also enough leeway to accomodate exceptional students; most of the kids that transition from the higher ranks in the Jr belts end up around blue belt in the adult ranks but a few exceptional ones have jumped directly to sankyu brown belt.

 

[ACJ]

They don't get promoted into the with adult ranks in the Kids programs. They have their own belt ranking that doesn't translate over to the gup ranks. They only get a gup rank when they get out of that particular age bracket, and that is never anything higher than a 9th gup (yellow belt). Having 9 ranks to go through just to get to a 9th gup is just excessive. I would save that for the higher ranks, because you will just discourage your students and the parents when they see all of this work that they are going through and they are still white belts.

So instead of giving them nothing, giving them up to 9 belts is worse? I think it's more likely to encourage them, especially more than nothing. Otherwise I'm not seeing the difference.

 

[Steve]

OK so I was thinking about a bit of a different system.

Kids start with a white belt, then progress with a different belt each time, each belt following being a white belt with a coloured stripe through the middle, with a total of 8 belts (including plain white).

The kids can progress to a yellow belt grading at any time they are ready, with no age set, as to not have kids presume they are ready or to have to hold back anyone who has the appropriate skills.

The tests would cost as much as the adult ones (belt cost + venue costs).

During the this period they will be taught a solid foundation in basics of kicking, forms and a more kid-centric self defence. Theory will be presented in a more relevant and easier to learn way, and forms will be taught more slowly.

At the end of all this when they do turn to the full fledged system they should be performing well above their rank and progress quickly, while still maintaining a skill and attitude appropriate to their rank.

Thoughts? Questions?

Seems to work well in BJJ, but mostly because everyone does it. It's just the way it is.

 

[CDKJudoka]

So instead of giving them nothing, giving them up to 9 belts is worse? I think it's more likely to encourage them, especially more than nothing. Otherwise I'm not seeing the difference.

But the parents might not see it that way. We have a Little Dragon program for that reason. They get a belt test every three months, but it doesn't translate into a regular gup rank. That doesn't happen until they are old enough to start learning the dojangs curriculum. You are looking for that kind of program.

 

[ACJ]

I don't think I see the difference.

 

[CDKJudoka]

I don't think I see the difference.

That is my point. What you are describing is a little dragon/ninja/etc program. That is one of the reasons why it works, because it isn't part of the standard curriculum, and the parents know it. Being that they get belts, instead of stripes, the parents and kids see that there is a progression as opposed to paying for a belt test and they only get a stripe.

 

[ACJ]

Then I don't get what you're trying to tell me to do. It's exactly like like little whatever, but I shouldn't do it and do little whatever instead?

 

[CDKJudoka]

Then I don't get what you're trying to tell me to do. It's exactly like like little whatever, but I shouldn't do it and do little whatever instead?

I think we are both confused here. The interwebs aren't always the best place for something like this.

Now, If I read you correctly, you wanted to have 9 levels between white belt and yellow belt as stripes, with a belt test fee incurred into. It sounds like a little whatever program, but without the belts. At that point, the real gup curriculum should be taught, as that is what the parents will think is going on. With a distinct difference in belts and ranks, teaching the basics of the curriculum, the parents will see the difference.

I am trying to be clear, but as I said the interwebs don't always allow people to properly convey what is being said.

 

[ACJ]

I agree a bit confused. Each grading would get them a new belt, and costs would be kept to a minimum. and all the belts (8 or 9 or whatever) would be before yellow, as even the yellow belt grading will require some more mature training.

I think that's the main difference between what I'm saying and what some people are suggesting. Some are just breaking up the yellow belt grading into smaller chunks, whereas I envision a more basic understanding of everything being taught in the program and they can take their yellow whenever they are ready.

Perhaps they could have both belts at once... hmm.. I think I just thought of something I could use.

 

[CDKJudoka]

I agree a bit confused. Each grading would get them a new belt, and costs would be kept to a minimum. and all the belts (8 or 9 or whatever) would be before yellow, as even the yellow belt grading will require some more mature training.

I think that's the main difference between what I'm saying and what some people are suggesting. Some are just breaking up the yellow belt grading into smaller chunks, whereas I envision a more basic understanding of everything being taught in the program and they can take their yellow whenever they are ready.

Perhaps they could have both belts at once... hmm.. I think I just thought of something I could use.

Okay that makes more sense to me then. I didn't want to to come off as being argumentative, but I am. Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out for you.