Did you kick anything in your Shotokan or Goju Ryu kick training?

[Acronym]

There's really not any true or false answer here.

For instance, Joe Lewis only kicked two things, people and heavy bags, never air.
Bill Wallace only kicked two things, people and air, never heavy bags.

Both had remarkable skill and great careers.

As for Shotokan, I can only speak of the East Coast. Shotokan fighters back there in the seventies, eighties nineties and two thousands - were just plain nasty to fight. I always used to describe fighting them as - "they will punch a whole right through your f'n body, just to give the finger to the guy behind you."

As for Goju, I originally trained Greek Gojo Ryu. It was a hard fighting school. They kicked bags hard, but I wasn't there long enough to know how often.

Personally, my dojo had ten to twenty heavy bags - depending on how often we broke them. Even had a couple on elevator cable, with rollers atop the bag, that went between the I-beams. That way you could drive them back with hard combos.

I loved bag work. I became a wholesaler so I could get them fairly inexpensive. I preferred TufWare leather bags. Don't know if they're still quality or not, haven't bought one in quite a while.

Neither one of those guys did Shotokan or Goju Ryu

 

[Flying Crane]

And there are people who smoked who never got lung cancer.

This is true. I can only speak to my own experience and I don’t pretend to speak for others. But i’e never had any indication that the heavy bag was damaging my knees, in 36 years of martial training in eight different schools (at various times), Ive never known anyone to say that happened to them, and I’ve never heard it said that this was a possible risk to look out for.

So I dunno. I’m skeptical of your claim. But that’s just my feeling, based on my experience.

 

[Acronym]

As for Shotokan, I can only speak of the East Coast. Shotokan fighters back there in the seventies, eighties nineties and two thousands - were just plain nasty to fight. I always used to describe fighting them as - "they will punch a whole right through your f'n body, just to give the finger to the guy behind you."

.

Really? Can you name an elite Shotokan fighter in Kickboxing, like ever, who used Shotokan as his base? I know people who did it growing up and then moved over to Kickboxing and showed little to no traces of Shotokan

 

[Acronym]

This is true. I can only speak to my own experience and I don’t pretend to speak for others. But i’e never had any indication that the heavy bag was damaging my knees, in 36 years of martial training in eight different schools (at various times), Ive never known anyone to say that happened to them, and I’ve never heard it said that this was a possible risk to look out for.

So I dunno. I’m skeptical of your claim. But that’s just my feeling, based on my experience.

People are ignorant. Take a guess why it's bad long-term for the knees kicking a hard, heavy bag. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Flying Crane]

Please name organization too. There’s American proliferation of Karate that no doubt employ lots of kicking tools. It's the Japanese Karate association in particular that I question based on my observations

Ah. Moving the goalposts...

 

[Flying Crane]

People are ignorant. Take a guess why it's bad long-term for the knees kicking a hard, heavy bag. This isn't rocket science.

You are right: some people like to put their ignorance on display.

 

[Flying Crane]

Neither one of those guys did Shotokan or Goju Ryu

I think you missed his point. Maybe @Buka will clarify it for you. If he is willing to suffer you.

 

[Acronym]

I think you missed his point. Maybe @Buka will clarify it for you. If he is willing to suffer you.

He mentioned two Karatekas turned Kickboxers. Who is missing the point?

Again, can the Kung Fu practioners stop diluting my threads? I don't care what you guys do. If I have a question about Kung Fu, then I'll ask it.

 

[Buka]

Neither one of those guys did Shotokan or Goju Ryu

My point was to the thread title about "kicking anything.'

 

[Buka]

Really? Can you name an elite Shotokan fighter in Kickboxing, like ever, who used Shotokan as his base? I know people who did it growing up and then moved over to Kickboxing and showed little to no traces of Shotokan

No, I can't. I never really followed who did what as their first art or arts.

Competitive fighting doesn't really work that way. When you kickbox, which I did - I also judged, reffed, cornered and trained fighters - you train specifically for a rule set first. Then, maybe, if you have the resources, for a particular opponent.

Anybody, at least that I know of, if they're going to be kickboxing in competition, will spend a lot of time in a boxing gym if one is available to them. That doesn't make them a boxer, just someone who is smart enough to utilize resources that he has.

 

[Acronym]

No, I can't. I never really followed who did what as their first art or arts.

Competitive fighting doesn't really work that way. When you kickbox, which I did - I also judged, reffed, cornered and trained fighters - you train specifically for a rule set first. Then, maybe, if you have the resources, for a particular opponent.

Anybody, at least that I know of, if they're going to be kickboxing in competition, will spend a lot of time in a boxing gym if one is available to them. That doesn't make them a boxer, just someone who is smart enough to utilize resources that he has.

So who are these bad-asses that you are talking about? Joe Lewis picked a Shotokan Karateka for his first KB fight specifically because Shotokan stylist are so arrogant yet won't fight, but he found one who was willing to put it on the line and it lasted about as long as predicted.

 

[Buka]

People are ignorant.

I agree.

 

[Acronym]

I don't know if Bob Wall did Shotokan but he purportedly liked full contact. I see no record of his in FC.... I guess he ventured into movies instead.

Chuck Norris stayed away from FC contact as well.

 

[Acronym]

I agree.

Do you think kicking a door is good for your knees? If you don't think that, then you don't think it's good to kick a heavy bag for your knees either.

 

[Flying Crane]

He mentioned two Karatekas turned Kickboxers. Who is missing the point?

Again, can the Kung Fu practioners stop diluting my threads? I don't care what you guys do. If I have a question about Kung Fu, then I'll ask it.

Just contributing to the discussion. As anyone can do in any thread here in the forums. Anyone. Any thread.

 

[Acronym]

Just contributing to the discussion. As anyone can do in any thread here in the forums. Anyone. Any thread.

by insulting both your own intelligence and mine arguing that there are no health aspects of KICKING a heavy bag?

Again, how do your knees feel when there's resistance? Not so good, huh? How about hard resistance? Not so good either? Lets make that hard and heavy and suddenly it's perfectly healthy.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm confused- is the argument that kicking a heavy bag is bad for the knees, or that kneeing a heavy bag is bad for the knees? I assumed the later, but if so this is the first time I've heard someone refer to kneeing as being a kick (although I guess it's technically accurate).

 

[Acronym]

I'm confused- is the argument that kicking a heavy bag is bad for the knees,.

Yes, spectacularly bad.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Again, can the Kung Fu practioners stop diluting my threads? I don't care what you guys do. If I have a question about Kung Fu, then I'll ask it.

Just contributing to the discussion. As anyone can do in any thread here in the forums. Anyone. Any thread.

Flying Crane, You are not even a Karate guy (I had 3 months in Karate). Nobody care about your opinions. Why are you still hanging around here?

 

[isshinryuronin]

I agree but there are two points to consider here: A) the Makiwara is not exactly modern training equipment... B) it is of doubtful value to more advanced kicks. C) pads, and heavy bags are probably not the core of traditional Karate although there is footage of it being used.

A heavy bag is a good way to tear your knees up. Much better to kick medium soft kicking shields.

A little clarification on your three points:
A. Makiwara is definitely old time equipment - doesn't mean its not effective for certain training.
B. I only referenced the makiwara to punching. But since you brought up kicks, there was a hanging, longer, makiwara, as well as the fixed kind, to practice kicks on in the old time dojos.
C. No training aid is the core of any martial art. They are supplementary to developing effective fighting techniques.

Never saw anyone hurt their knees on a heavy bag. Maybe they were doing a particular kick not condusive to heavy impact, or they just were doing their kick with bad form.