Did a Gracie nearly lose to TKD?

[Drose427]

I saw somewhere that in the early days of MMA, one of the Gracies, (I can't remember who,) came extremely close to losing to a TKD and Hapkido Practitioner. I can't remember the names of either fighters. As a practitioner of Moo Duk Kwan and a fan of BJJ (would study it more if I could afford both) this sparks great interest. It would make sense if the Gracie had problems pulling off a move since some TKD and Hapkido schools teach takedowns so it would could be safe to assume by understanding those concepts he developed takedown defense as well. Does anyone here remember this or know if it's true? I'm too young to have been around in the early days of TKD and have had no luck looking online...

If this is in the wrong thread I sincerely apologize, I just assumed a TKD Practitioner might know because it gives some merit to the effectiveness of TKD...

 

[Blindside]

Kimo Leopoldo was introduced in his bout with Royce Gracie as being a TKD black belt, which was a complete joke, you can credit his success against Royce to being a wrestler and football player, and outweighing Royce by something like 80 pounds. There wasn't anything remotely TKDish about his fight.

That said, I think the the only thing that saved Royce in that match was Kimo's ponytail, if Royce didn't have that handle he would have probably been grounded and pounded from inside his guard.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Kimo Leopoldo was introduced in his bout with Royce Gracie as being a TKD black belt, which was a complete joke, you can credit his success against Royce to being a wrestler and football player, and outweighing Royce by something like 80 pounds. There wasn't anything remotely TKDish about his fight.

That said, I think the the only thing that saved Royce in that match was Kimo's ponytail, if Royce didn't have that handle he would have probably been grounded and pounded from inside his guard.

True. But it is refreshing to hear of a time when someone's tkd background was actually mentioned in MMA. All too often a fighter is announced as "a brown belt in bjj and muay thai fighter" and then after googling the fighter you realise the commentators convieniently forgot to mention he is also a 3rd dan tkd. The bias against tkd fighters in the UFC is laughable to say the least.

 

[Drose427]

That part was left out of the conversation I saw, but thank you. Also, I agree that MMA commentators have a huge tendency to leave out any kind of TKD background...Like "this fighter is an amateur kick boxer and brown belt in BJJ", then you see like a flawless switch roundhouse and, as you said, you look it up and they've done TKD their whole life. Its like that with so many TMA's it's ridiculous. Most of the widely known, top contenders in MMA came from a lifetime of TMA, it wasnt some campy story of a guy stepping into the cage for the first time and being that good, or mere devotion. But UFC commentators will try to tell ya different all day.

 

[msmitht]

They don't always leave tkd background out. Anderson silva and GSP did tkd. You have to realize that most people think that TKD is what they saw in the movie "fist foot way"(a total joke). There are enough bad schools out there to almost justify that thought.

 

[Steve]

Guys, I don't think that "MMA" or the UFC has an active agenda to omit TKD. I know for a fact that the styles listed for a fighter are self reported. So, if an MMA fighter's 3rd Dan in TKD isn't mentioned, it's because he or his camp didn't mention it, not because MMA chose to ignore it.

Younger fighters in particular, Rogan or whomever the color guy is, only knows what the scouting card tells them. Every once in a while, someone's seen a fight video. Most of what they talk about is what the camp shares with them.

 

[RTKDCMB]

. There wasn't anything remotely TKDish about his fight.

Considering who was managing him at the time (Joe Son who claimed to be a 3rd Dan in TKD and then created his own style of Joe Son Do which no one else ever practiced) that is not surprising.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I know for a fact that the styles listed for a fighter are self reported. So, if an MMA fighter's 3rd Dan in TKD isn't mentioned, it's because he or his camp didn't mention it, not because MMA chose to ignore it.

This. Furthermore, in many of the earlier UFCs, some fighters self-reported ranks/styles that they didn't really have. Gary Goodridge advertised himself as a Kuk Sool Won black belt. In fact he had only 2 lessons in Kuk Sool Won - the school offered him a 4th degree black belt to represent them in the UFC. As far as Kimo goes, I haven't been able to find any verification of his supposed TKD black belt. He's never attempted anything that even looks like TKD in any of his fights. I suspect that was something cooked up by his manager Joe Son in order to inflate his qualifications.

There are MMA fighters who have used TKD effectively in the octagon (ex - Anthony Pettis), but generally those are well-rounded mixed martial artists who are skilled in the usual core disciplines and use their TKD skills to give them an extra edge.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

A current UFC champion Benson Henderson is a TKD blackbelt and has a wrestling background. They mention it all the time. Pat Smith early on did TKD as well and was pretty successful. Kimo Leopoldo looked like he never did TKD. I agree with Blindside that if Kimo did not have that ponytail Royce probably would have lost.

 

[Gorilla]

True. But it is refreshing to hear of a time when someone's tkd background was actually mentioned in MMA. All too often a fighter is announced as "a brown belt in bjj and muay thai fighter" and then after googling the fighter you realise the commentators convieniently forgot to mention he is also a 3rd dan tkd. The bias against tkd fighters in the UFC is laughable to say the least.

Getting better though!!

 

[jks9199]

That part was left out of the conversation I saw, but thank you. Also, I agree that MMA commentators have a huge tendency to leave out any kind of TKD background...Like "this fighter is an amateur kick boxer and brown belt in BJJ", then you see like a flawless switch roundhouse and, as you said, you look it up and they've done TKD their whole life. Its like that with so many TMA's it's ridiculous. Most of the widely known, top contenders in MMA came from a lifetime of TMA, it wasnt some campy story of a guy stepping into the cage for the first time and being that good, or mere devotion. But UFC commentators will try to tell ya different all day.

The MMA commentators tend to classify MMA skills in a couple of areas. Everything stand up is "muay thai" or "boxing" or "kickboxing." Occasionally they just say "stand up." Doesn't matter if the closest the guy has come to a true boxing gym is Rocky VI -- and has never actually done ANY muay thai... elbows, kicks, and clinch tactics are "muay thai", punches are "boxing." And anything done while grappling is "BJJ" -- even if the guy's background is pure wrestling and judo. Honestly -- I think some of them just don't know better. I think some are victims of marketing hype or simply learning "enough" to talk. Or... maybe Dana White. 'Cause Dana would never encourage them to keep the commentary high energy, and not worry about accuracy... :uhohh:

 

[punisher73]

Early UFC's were notorious for fighters stating styles that they didn't actually train in to give themselves credibility.

Kimo is a prime example. He was listed as TKD, but he was basically just a streetfighter. In the next UFC, the infamous Joe San entered and fought and was listed as Kimo's instructor. Joe San's style was "Joe San Do", and he was beaten by a kenpoist, Keith Hackney. Joe San lost the fight, but won some fame for losing and getting ball punched several times.

David Lousieau (sp?) was another TKDist that had a highlight KO via spinning back kick to his opponent.

As far as them downplaying TKD. I dont' think so. I think it is what the fighter choses to go by. For example, Chuck Liddell was listed as a kenpoist but earned his blackbelt under Jack Sabat in Koeikan karate first before studying under Hackleman.

 

[Blindside]

I think that if a good TKD fighter came along that aspect would get played up heavily. Look at Lyoto Machida, that was a constant theme about him about how his standup was from a largely traditional karate source. Different is good when coming up with color commentary.