Dem Health Plan Proposal has some Issues....

[Bob Hubbard]

Lets see, some problems....

# Riddled with Taxes: This legislation is riddled with tax hikes. They start by taxing those earning over $10,831 year who don’t buy health insurance $750—a tax that escalates to $3,800 as income rises. Health insurance, health care devices and drugs are also taxed, adding to the cost of health care, and decreasing the competitiveness of these businesses.

# Medicare Cuts: The bill cuts $500 billion in Medicare spending, including over $130 billion in cuts to Medicare Advantage and nearly $120 billion in Medicare cuts for hospitals that care for seniors. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says they “expected the Medicare Advantage plans to lose 2.7 million enrollees over the next decade” as a result.... See More

# Raises Insurance Prices: CBO also finds “premiums in the new insurance exchanges would tend to be higher than the average premiums in the current-law individual market…”

# Force, Not Choice: This legislation includes an “individual mandate” forcing all Americans to purchase health insurance, like the Massachusetts law. Taxpayer subsidies will be given to those earning up to three times the federal poverty level. Those not qualifying for subsides will be taxed up to $3,800 if they do not buy insurance, and the Joint Tax Committee has confirmed failure to pay your fine could result in jail time. The experience in Massachusetts has left those caught in between unable to afford insurance and having to pay the tax.

# Big Insurance Boondoggle: Forcing all the uninsured into insurance could bring as much as $200 billion a year in new premiums to insurance companies, including $465 billion in subsidies over 10 years.

# Privacy Violation: This legislation would allow law enforcement agencies such as the FBI and the Department of Justice unprecedented unfettered access to medical records.

Could a Liberal who supports this Bill please refute these talking points?

If this goes through:
- Your taxes WILL go up.
- Your insurance premiums WILL go up.
- The Deficit WILL go up.
- Small Businesses WILL close.

With more people impoverished, more people unemployed, and more people dependent on the Government for their existence....how is this an improvement?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I have enough trouble making my over the legal limits but demanded anyway support payment. I can't afford a car, nor can I afford an independent health plan. But, under the Dem plan, I'll get to add another $400-800 a month that I don't have, or face jail. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this is a good thing?

Of course, I'm still waiting for alot of answers from the supporters of this plan.

All I get is hollow "think of the children" and "heartless" ********.... See More

The president said in his State of the Union address that "we were sent here to serve our citizens, not our ambitions. So let's show the American people we can do it together."

Well, what do you call jamming a bill through that 70+% don't want?

 

[zDom]

I have enough trouble making my over the legal limits but demanded anyway support payment. I can't afford a car, nor can I afford an independent health plan. But, under the Dem plan, I'll get to add another $400-800 a month that I don't have, or face jail. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this is a good thing?

Yep, I'm also barely making it (well, just UNDER making it, really; slowly but surely exhausting my meager savings) due to a court mandated child support set with no regard to my ability to pay (Thus sayeth the judge: "Well, I guess you need to earn more money.")

If the Dems pass this, I am seriously considering calling their bluff:

Yea. Send me to one of the ALREADY OVERCROWDED jails or prisons.

I'll use my one phone call to call a national media outlet on the day they cuff me. No using calling a lawyer: can't afford one of those, either.


"Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison." — Henry David Thoreau

 

[Shuto]

.

# Medicare Cuts: The bill cuts $500 billion in Medicare spending, including over $130 billion in cuts to Medicare Advantage and nearly $120 billion in Medicare cuts for hospitals that care for seniors. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says they “expected the Medicare Advantage plans to lose 2.7 million enrollees over the next decade” as a result.... See More

I've read articles that say Medicare is underfunded far worse than Social Security so I have no issue with the concept of cutting Medicare expenditures. One can certainly argue about the specifics though.

My big issue with this is that they are not using these savings to pay for the existing underfunded obligation. Instead they are using it to help pay for a totally new obligation. That is just wrong when govt spending is so far out of balance with revenue and has been for most of the last 60 years or more.

We need to find a way to pay for all of the stuff we are currently buying before we consider new programs.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

A crucial point constantly missed by the supporters is this:

The plan does not PROVIDE insurance coverage for anyone.

It REQUIRES that they buy it, or else.

Seems that's a difference to me.

 

[Shuto]

Sounds to me like your problem is with the divorce courts regardless of what happens with this HC legislation.

 

[wushuguy]

many people will be affected if this goes as is. like my wife and i are also barely making it, because i had to take a lower paying job. even though we moved into a smaller apartment, we still can't afford $450+ for monthly health insurance. (edited to reflect 2 person family plan)

whoever thought up this plan didn't care what would happen to people either down on their luck, or just scraping by. If they provide FREE insurance to the low income persons, then this plan would be great. but if they're taxing anyone who makes more than 10K, c'mon now, kids working at mcdonalds make that much in a year, and that's not even enough to afford a studio apartment these days... so how do they expect people who barely scrape by to pay for food, housing, transport, AND insurance? many people make too much to qualify for food stamps or other benefits, but not enough to pay for living, thus slowly going into debt. after savings run out, like myself, then the debt is added onto credit cards, which only makes things even worse. normally i don't like to complain, but forcing those who can't afford something to buy it otherwise face jail, well, that's not America anymore, I'm not sure what it is.

It seems that the average joe loses out in this country, whereas the corporations make off with the cash. We ought to start some kinda mega martial artists corporation, to get government bailout so we can get our money back, lol.

 

[zDom]

If they provide FREE insurance to the low income persons, then this plan would be great. but if they're taxing anyone who makes more than 10K, c'mon now, kids working at mcdonalds make that much in a year, and that's not even enough to afford a studio apartment these days... so how do they expect people who barely scrape by to pay for food, housing, transport, AND insurance?

They are completely out of touch with what it takes to make ends meet.

The current salary for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $174,000 per year — and their health insurance is paid for. And they don't pay social security. And most of them have other perks and money coming in.

They have NO IDEA what it is like to try to make it on $20k/year. Clueless.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The Dem plan will destroy small businesses by saddling them with increased taxes, increased record requirements, and increased mandates. They want businesses to pay 72.5% of the premium or face an additional 8% payroll tax.

The FTR would increase to 45%. I'm not a rich, well off guy, so seeing 45% of my earnings taken doesn't sit too well with me.

The Dem plan will HURT small business growth, retard workers income, cause rationing of services, continue to drag the economy down, and greatly hurt the American people.

Companies that don't offer enough can face fines of $100 per day per employee.

Every health ins plan will get hit with an new tax to fund a government board to decide on cost effective treatments, thus rationing care. Treatment considered inefficient won't be allowed. So, if you're one of those 1%ers, you're gonna die. Sucks.

 

[d1jinx]

I have to say.... If OBAMA's health care plan and this are anything like the Military's current health plan, THEN WE ARE ALL SCREWED.

The Military's health Plan is not what it was 10 years ago. Depending on what base you are at, there are no more on base emergency facilities. the base hospital is now a clinic that outsources the doctors from the local area.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to get an appointment. If you are sick RIGHT now, you can call and see if they have an appointment soon, which they NEVER DO and they expect you to come in in 3 weeks, go to after hours sick call where you will sit for 4 or more hours only to get rushed through and mis-diagnosed, or go to the local emergency room and sit for hours until someone sees you.

WHAT A ****ING JOKE.

And this is all because of the LAST DEMON-CRAT we had in office, Clinton and his outsourcing.

Good news people.... WE ARE ****ED.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Sent to both NY Senators via their web page, as well as NY Rep Brian Higgins.

Senator,
I am writing in opposition to the unconstitutional health care bill and the attempt by this Congress to force this unwanted legislation on the American People. As a small business owner I am against this. As an American I am against this.

This act is little more than an unethical cash cow for the insurance industry who continues to raise premiums and subsidize insane gouging by the drug companies.

I oppose the increase in taxes this will bring.

I oppose the invasion of my privacy that this will result in.

I resent being forced to purchase something I can not afford or face jail time.

I resent the fact that should this happen, members of my family will see their benefits through Medicare cut.

Rather than force a subsidy out of already cash strapped Americans to aid the insurance lobby, you need to do something that will actually help the American People.

- Support educational aid to aspiring doctors and nurses and other medical specialists so that we can put more qualified Americans into the medical field.
- Support the creation of clinics and other medical support in poor neighborhoods so that people have care close at hand.
- Deal with the gouging of drug companies who charge $100 for a pill that cost them .01 to make.

Consider a program for providing aspiring medical professionals with tuition and a paycheck in exchange for a 10 year hitch in a Federal Hospital system, similar to civil service programs of the past.

The people of this country do not want this disaster that is being proposed. This is too important to push through and try to "fix" later. Do it right the first time.

I will not support, nor will my friends or family support any Senator or Representative who votes for this current bill, or who pushes it through by the reconciliation process.

Vote NO on the current health care bill.

Push for real reform.

Thank you.

Bob Hubbard.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

And the replies I got back...little more than "more of the same, but I ain't listening to you" form letters.

March 11, 2010





Dear Mr. Hubbard,



Thank you for writing to me about the current state of our healthcare system. I appreciate your point of view and share many of your concerns. I believe that it is vital that we act now to bring forth health care reform solutions that will lower costs for those currently covered by private insurance, strengthen Medicare for seniors and allow every American to access quality and affordable health care.



Our healthcare system is currently badly broken. Over the last ten years, health care premium increases have far outpaced earned wages and forty-seven million Americans, including three million New Yorkers, are currently uninsured and an additional 25 million are underinsured. With our current economic situation, many Americans are losing their insurance coverage when they are laid off from their jobs. Even people who thought they were adequately covered with the health insurance they purchased later learn that they are not when facing a catastrophic diagnosis. This is unacceptable. No family should be one health care emergency away from bankruptcy. Congress must act to provide stability in the health insurance industry.



Quality care for the patient, affordability for families and small businesses, and patient choice are all important considerations in reforming our health care system. We need a plan in place that Americans will be able to afford, as well as allow them a true choice between competing health insurance plans. Having a public option, similar to a Medicare-for-all program, would create competition and result in lower health care costs across the board. If you are happy with the coverage you currently have, a public option would also allow you to keep it.





I have been a strong supporter of affordable, quality health insurance for all. I am committed to addressing this important issue and will work with my Senate colleagues on a bipartisan solution.


Thank you again for writing to express your concerns and I hope that you keep in touch with my office regarding future legislation and concerns you may have. For more information on this and other important issues, please visit my website at http://gillibrand.senate.gov and sign up for my e-newsletter.





Sincerely yours,

Kirsten Gillibrand
United States Senator

Dear Mr. Hubbard:

Thank you for contacting me and expressing your opposition to health care reform in its current form.

Our country is facing a crisis in health care. The cost of health insurance is skyrocketing, and too many New York families are caught in the middle. Like you, I believe it is absolutely unacceptable that more than forty-six million Americans do not have health care coverage. Both the health of our citizens and the health of our nation are at stake, and we must act soon.

I strongly support the creation of new “Exchanges” through health care reform, in which insurance companies could sell affordable health insurance to individuals and small businesses. In these Exchanges, a not-for-profit health insurance company, which would compete on a level playing field with existing private health insurance plans, would help to lower premiums and exert downward pressure on the premiums of existing insurance plans. Adding competition to insurance markets will help consumers by providing New Yorkers and all Americans one more choice as they search for affordable and comprehensive health insurance.

The Senate is currently focused on crafting legislation that will create jobs, helping American families and our nation’s economy to continue recovering from our recent economic crisis. But health care costs have a significant impact on the budgets of families and of the country as a whole, and we cannot give up on health care reform, we must do something to address rising health care costs. I will continue to work with my colleagues to develop a strong bill that can help solve our current health care crisis.

Thank you for contacting me about this important issue. Please do not hesitate to contact me again if I can ever be of assistance to you on this, or any other matter.



Sincerely,

Charles E. Schumer
United States Senator

Please do not respond to this email. To send another message please visit my website at http://schumer.senate.gov/SchumerWebsite/contact/webform.cfm . Thank you.

Dear Friend:

Thank you for writing. I have heard from countless
Americans struggling to afford health insurance, as well as health
professionals striving to provide care, and I appreciate your
perspective.

I recently released my proposal to reform our health
insurance system. To learn more about this plan, please visit:

www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting

and

www.healthreform.gov

Reform must provide more security and stability to those
who have health insurance; give those without insurance affordable
options; and lower the cost of health care for our families, our
businesses, and our government.

I share the sense of urgency that many Americans have
voiced to improve health care in our country. Together, we will fix
it.


Sincerely,

Barack Obama


To be a part of our agenda for change, join us at www.WhiteHouse.gov

Not even the fake courtesy of personalization on the last one....

Nothing of course from Higgins.

 

[Sukerkin]

I might not entirely agree with your views on this issue, Bob but I do have to commend you both on trying to be an active participant in your countries political process and also for the quality of the letter you sent.

It covered the points clearly and without being too lengthy - politicians and their staff have hyper short attention spans it seems and don't read anything that might tax their brain-cell(s) (potential plural added as one must be polite ).

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I've read articles that say Medicare is underfunded far worse than Social Security so I have no issue with the concept of cutting Medicare expenditures. One can certainly argue about the specifics though.

Doctors are going bankrupt trying to keep Medicare patients and still pay the bills - they make less money from Medicare patients than they spend on their care. Cut the amount doctors are paid, and they'll have to drop Medicare patients or at the very least, stop taking new patients.

This is a problem for seniors - they find themselves having Medicare, but being unable to find a doctor willing to take it. That form of 'cutting costs' only hurts the elderly, it does not help anyone.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I might not entirely agree with your views on this issue, Bob but I do have to commend you both on trying to be an active participant in your countries political process and also for the quality of the letter you sent.

It covered the points clearly and without being too lengthy - politicians and their staff have hyper short attention spans it seems and don't read anything that might tax their brain-cell(s) (potential plural added as one must be polite ).

What it boils down to for me is this: legality and effectiveness.

None of what is being proposed is legal. Not by my interpretation, not by guys who argue cases in front of our Supreme Court, not by half our government. If the government wants this power, they need to obtain it legally, not take it and dare us to take it from them.

Also it's the effectiveness. I'm to be forced to buy a product I don't want, at a price I don't want to pay or else. Nothing is going to be done to address the real causes of why I don't want the product, or why it costs so much. It also doesn't really help anyone, except the insurance companies (who have a forced clientele. Estimates are they will make billions from this) and drug companies (who can continue to sell overpriced drugs at 2,000% profits). Hurt will be the poor, the old, and those who run their own businesses.

Basically consider this a hamburger. Except, it's a $500 a month burger. Their argument is, if we force everyone to buy burgers, the cost will come down. They also feel forcing others to pay extra for those who can't afford it is the right thing.
Never addressed is why that burger is $500.

That's my other problem.

They aren't trying to give us a system like England, Canada, Sweden, etc have. Those all fall into the simplier "everyone pays taxes which pay for care for everyone" system. While still not currently a legal option here, it is a more effective model than what we're getting. Despite 60-70% of American's not wanting what they are forcing.

I've seen estimated costs of this system at over 30 TRILLION dollars over the next 20 years. We can't afford that. They are already talking about raising minimum income taxes to 45%. We can't afford that.

Remember, we are talking about a government that's used to paying $300 for a $15 hammer.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In another arrogant display of legislative power and contempt for the ordinary citizen, Rep. Louise Slaughter – the Pelosi ally who chairs the all powerful House Rules Committee – is said to be preparing the way for the Senate health care bill to pass the House without ever being voted on in order to overcome the fact that they don’t have the votes to pass it.

According to National Journal’s Congress Daily, Slaughter is giving serious consideration to a plan that would " usher the health care overhaul through the House and potentially avoid a direct vote on the Senate overhaul bill” by manipulating the rules of the chamber in such a way that the Senate bill would be “deemed” as having passed once the House approves a bill that would make the corrections certain members want.

It is now more apparent than ever that Pelosi and Reid and the White House are committed to passing the health care bill by whatever means necessary, even if they have to pull the wool over the public’s eyes to do it. In essence, members of the House are being asked to base their next vote on health care on a bill they and the American people have not read and which has not, as yet, been written.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010...-care-pelosi-reconciliation-louise-slaughter/

Something stinks here.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Here's another issue with this bill: undocumented aliens.

http://reason.org/blog/show/obamacare-undocumented-workers

First, some background: The Senate bill bans undocumented aliens from buying coverage from the proposed government-created insurance exchange, even with their own money. This will essentially mean that these workers will be completely frozen out of the health care market - public or private, given that non-exchange-based insurance plans will become prohibitively expensive if not driven out of the market altogether under ObamaCare. Far from providing universal coverage, ObamaCare will become a vehicle to permanently deny coverage to about six million uninsured.

Now please note: this is not about illegal aliens getting free health care. This is about them being forbidden from buying health care insurance, even with their own money. Currently, an illegal alien can still buy health insurance on their own, if they want to and have the money to do so. Under the new law, that would be forbidden. As the article notes, that means at least six million people in the US would be denied health care coverage of any kind - paid for or not.

And even if you think hey that's great, maybe they'll go home if they can't even buy health care coverage, there are two issues with it that you might care about.

First, the US has not engaged in selectively denying a group of people the right to spend their own money on something since anti-black 'Jim Crow' law days. That's a real change in US policy, even if you think it's OK.

Second, and perhaps more importantly for the future of the Obama health care bill, the Hispanic caucus of the Democratic party flat-out won't vote for this bill in the House. And many other Democrats flat-out won't vote for it if it is removed from the bill.

Interesting days ahead.

 

[Sukerkin]

I can't shake my view that being against universal health-care provision is not rational but it is looking more and more like what is being proposed is not what I would recognise as being the American equivalent of the NHS - or even a step along the road towards it.

What is really quite worrying, from what Bob is digging up and posting here, is the way the political process is being subverted and spindled to 'make it happen'. Even if I 100% agreed that the policy being railroaded through was the right one I still would never condone such an undemocratic method of doing so.

The chaps in power are supposed to be knowledgeable about politics (if nothing else) aren't they? How can such a thing seem to them like anything but an undermining of the legitimacy of the system of government? Lose legitimacy and you lose everything - that's why military coups can never be sustained for long i.e. no legitimacy.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I can't shake my view that being against universal health-care provision is not rational but it is looking more and more like what is being proposed is not what I would recognise as being the Americam equivalent of the NHS - or even a step along the road towards it.

What is really quite worrying, from what Bob is digging up and posting here, is the way the political process is being subverted and spindled to 'make it happen'. Even if I 100% agreed that the policy being railroaded through was the right one I still would never condone such an undemocratic method of doing so.

The chaps in power are supposed to be knowledgeable about politics (if nothing else) aren't they? How can such a thing seem to them like anything but an undermining of the legitimacy of the system of government? Lose legitimacy and you lose everything - that's why military coups can never be sustained for long i.e. no legitimacy.

I absolutely agree with you.

Look at it this way - as a conservative, I am, yes, against universal health care.

However, I'd take that over the issues we currently have with US health care and the choices being made - which fix NOTHING and hurt MANY.

I am tired - really tired - of hearing my liberal relatives tell me how much they want this health care plan to pass, and then they describe the joys of single-payer (which this isn't) or universal health care (which this isn't); and all I can think is THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION. This bill does NOTHING they seem to think it will. It's just called 'Health Care Reform' and that's all they seem to care about. Oooh, it reforms health care. Rah, freaking rah. Now tell me what it fixes. Oh, well, who cares about that?

I care. But I'm conservative, therefore my opinion doesn't count.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

That is exactly my points.
Circumventing the proper procedures, being something it isn't, not doing what it says, hurting the very people it's being marketed as helping.

I said before, tack on a 15% sales tax, give me an ID card and let me walk into any hospital or doctors office, show the card, get treated and walk out without touching my wallet, while providing me with good care, hey, I might get behind that.
I'll still insist on the Constitutionality test, but hey, if you;re going to shove something down my throat, I'll take crab and lobster over carp and crap any day.