Delayed Sword - questions/ideas

[Yondanchris]

ok folks here is my initial entry into the discussion of EPAK!

I have been talking with a few folks here on mt about some techniques and
I had forgotten to bring up a discussion about delayed sword....so here I go,
below is a video of Casa De Kenpo doing the technique. A few questions pop
into my head:

1) could the hand sword be executed at the same time as the front kick?

2) After the block, why doesn't the right hand continue its ark either to the
groin/bladder with a hammer fist or coming full circle with a claw to the face
then loading up for the hand sword to the neck?
(especially if taken from the outside of a left grab versus right?)

3) Why am I not seeing a right hand "insurance check" out for the 1-2 punch
combination immediately after the hammer fist to the radial nerves or bicep?

4) what about stepping down from the kick against the opponents closest
leg to provide an opportunity to lock and move the body structure?

just some beginner observations! Enjoy?

[yt]8VlfNS7AHMY[/yt]

 

[MJS]

ok folks here is my initial entry into the discussion of EPAK!

I have been talking with a few folks here on mt about some techniques and
I had forgotten to bring up a discussion about delayed sword....so here I go,
below is a video of Casa De Kenpo doing the technique. A few questions pop
into my head:

1) could the hand sword be executed at the same time as the front kick?

2) After the block, why doesn't the right hand continue its ark either to the
groin/bladder with a hammer fist or coming full circle with a claw to the face
then loading up for the hand sword to the neck?
(especially if taken from the outside of a left grab versus right?)

3) Why am I not seeing a right hand "insurance check" out for the 1-2 punch
combination immediately after the hammer fist to the radial nerves or bicep?

4) what about stepping down from the kick against the opponents closest
leg to provide an opportunity to lock and move the body structure?

just some beginner observations! Enjoy?

[yt]8VlfNS7AHMY[/yt]

Hi Chris,

I'll toss in my thoughts on this.

1) I'm going to say no, due to the fact that our legs are longer than our arms, thus even if we did throw out the handsword, its probably not going to reach or be very effective.

2) It could, but looking at your 3rd question, if you do what you suggested, it cancels out the ability to block a potential left punch. IMO, I dont really think that its workable. When I do this tech, my intent is to a) take the person off balance with a combination of stepping and hitting the arm and b) hopefully the hit to the arm will cause some damage. No, its not going to break the arm, but I'm thinking more along the lines of FMA, ala limb destruction. Now, the hammerfist would probably be more workable if you were flowing from one strike to another, ie: a hammerfist to the face, following thru to the groin, bladder, etc. The idea here, IMO is to get some marriage of gravity. After that kick, we're landing forward, right into the handsword shot.

3) IMO, I think with some, they're going on the assumption that stepping back will cancel out the other shot. Keeping the hand where it is allows a) for the handsword to fire right to the neck as well as b) still provides some cover for the other shot, if it comes. If it were to come and we block, we're now in a position to follow up differently. Ex: if the 2nd punch comes, and we block, we can do an inward handsword, a hammerfist, grab the head and left elbow, etc.

4) Sure, thats an option too. When I teach these techs, I do them the way they were taught to me. I then like to show other possibilities for what we can do.

 

[punisher73]

The name of the technique suggests why you aren't doing both at the same time. "Delayed" because of the kick. If you go back to the older techniques (Tracy's still teach this technique) there is a technique called "Chinese Sword", in this technique you are moving into the punch and execute the inward block followed by the handsword. This gives you a little perspective on the progression of the techs.

Also, originally, Delayed Sword was designed for a lapel grab which changes the mental dynamics of the technique (yes, it can be applied to a punch). But, even against a punch. The kick to the groin is going to bend them over slightly so as to diminish their ability to punch right away with the opposite hand. This technique also teaches you "Marriage of Gravity" because the handsword is landing with your full body weight coming down at the same time (something that wouldn't happen if you did the kick and handsword at the same time).

But, let's say something goes wrong. You hit with the inward block and then their left hand is coming. Instead of the handsword to the neck, hit their left arm with the handsword and then you are set up for Sword of Destruction.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Each technique is a framework, within which multiple ideas can be explored and discussed. As your understanding of the conecpts and principles, as well as paths and types of movement evolves, the discussion should never be the same way twice.

A black belt should do Delayed Swpord differently than a Green, than a Blue, than a Purple, etc. The Ideal Phase is just an entry point into a conversation. Each instructors own foci will also influence the direction of the conversation, within that organizations framework of specialties and preferences.

I tend to insert an arm-drag into the technique after the block, with a reverse step-thru, making the kick a step-thru front thrust to the inner thigh or bladder, depending on the setup I'm looking for. THEN Marriage of Gravity into the downward diagonal chop to the back of the neck.

Others do it like this:

Or differently, still.

The PURPOSE of the kick inserted between the block and the chop is to introduce the student to gauging distance. It also introduces the kenpoka to attacking different height zones with upper vs lower case weapon choices. Additionally, it breaks down loading a kick into a self defense scenario, and introduces the student to the idea that one weapon can be loading while another is deployed on a seperate task.

When first learning to kick, the student is taught to draw the foot towards the body to load it. As focus (kime) improves, the foot can be drawn straight up, and delivered from there with the same force a beginner musters with a full chamber. Later still, it can be delivered from it's point of origin, without any loading whatsoever, and still maintain the desired effect on impact.

Thats one thing that shold look different from belt to belt. Also, the amount of torso involvement in the final strike; the weapons formation; target selection; etc.

To say there is a single way to perform delayed Sword is to forget the function of techniques as starting points for exploration and application, and assume it was designed to be used "this way, against that attack".

Just sayin.

D.

 

[Touch Of Death]

ok folks here is my initial entry into the discussion of EPAK!

I have been talking with a few folks here on mt about some techniques and
I had forgotten to bring up a discussion about delayed sword....so here I go,
below is a video of Casa De Kenpo doing the technique. A few questions pop
into my head:

1) could the hand sword be executed at the same time as the front kick?

2) After the block, why doesn't the right hand continue its ark either to the
groin/bladder with a hammer fist or coming full circle with a claw to the face
then loading up for the hand sword to the neck?
(especially if taken from the outside of a left grab versus right?)

3) Why am I not seeing a right hand "insurance check" out for the 1-2 punch
combination immediately after the hammer fist to the radial nerves or bicep?

4) what about stepping down from the kick against the opponents closest
leg to provide an opportunity to lock and move the body structure?

just some beginner observations! Enjoy?

[yt]8VlfNS7AHMY[/yt]

The reason you don't do the technique completely different, is because the logic of that specific situation dictates you do it the way it was written. For instance the grabbing hand is still a threat; so rather than "continuing the arc", or what have you, you check that threat on your return motion. Secondly "coming full circle" just sounds slow. LOL... Now the whole reason for kicking, is because the throat is too far away; so, executing the kick and chop at the same time would not reflect reality. The term delay comes from a delay in targets for said sword.
Sean