Debate Room

[OULobo]

new subject: I jsut saw a commercial on TV last night from the Democrats saying that Dubya is trying to do away with the laws that garuntee overtime pay for over fourty hours aweek in hourly employment. Is this true? If it is, Georgie Porgie needs to stop making it obvious that he is really working for big business and not the working American man. (and he need to stop running up a deficit fueled by an uneeded war, but that's another debate.)

 

[Nightingale]

true.


http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconomy/overtimepay/underattack.cfm

 

[arnisador]

Well, change them, not do away with them entirely.

 

[Nightingale]

he's doing away with the majority of laws that guarantee overtime pay for most middle class workers. My union is already all over this one.

 

[Ender]

Originally posted by OULobo
new subject: I jsut saw a commercial on TV last night from the Democrats saying that Dubya is trying to do away with the laws that garuntee overtime pay for over fourty hours aweek in hourly employment. Is this true? If it is, Georgie Porgie needs to stop making it obvious that he is really working for big business and not the working American man. (and he need to stop running up a deficit fueled by an uneeded war, but that's another debate.)

Sometimes people need to stop and think...the reason for the law change is so people can work a 4/40 work week....4 days at 10 hours with a 3 day weekend EVERY week. Current laws now state any work over 8 hours must be paid overtime. So a 4/40 can't work in that enviroment. It's perfectly logical. without the rant about "working for big business" or "unneeded wars"...*L

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Ender
Sometimes people need to stop and think...the reason for the law change is so people can work a 4/40 work week....4 days at 10 hours with a 3 day weekend EVERY week. Current laws now state any work over 8 hours must be paid overtime. So a 4/40 can't work in that enviroment. It's perfectly logical. without the rant about "working for big business" or "unneeded wars"...*L

What you are talking about can't be a federal law. My father works 4/10 now and he doesn't get any overtime. The only time he gets overtime is if he goes over 40 by the end of the work week. It doesn't have to do with hours per day only hours per week.

Personally I think this is just another way for our illustrious prez to screw the little guy while helping the corporations.

Nightingale- I'm sure your union isn't the only one jumping on this one.

 

[Nightingale]

nooooo....

a 4/40 or 9/80 work schedule is acceptable under the current law as an "alternate work schedule".

current laws state that anything over 40 hours a week is overtime (with the exception of the 9/80), not anything over 8 hours a day.

 

[Ender]

Not in all states......and in calif you need 66% vote of ALL employees to work a 4/40...or 9/80..or 4.5/40.....many states do not even allow it.

 

[Nightingale]

then perhaps the government should work on getting these work schedules accepted rather than nerfing overtime.

 

[Ender]

Originally posted by Nightingale
then perhaps the government should work on getting these work schedules accepted rather than nerfing overtime.

*L....nerfing?...the point is that workers would get more time off!

now if this was proposed by a DEM, then some would be jumping for joy. Some really need to look at things rationally and without emotion...*S

 

[Nightingale]

no....

the problem is that the time off just has to occur "within the year" at a time and date SELECTED BY THE EMPLOYER, NOT THE EMPLOYEE, and that employers therefore don't have to pay employees for time worked within that pay period. if the time off had to be within the same pay period (like with the 9/80 or 4/10 schedules) that would be a different matter entirely.

 

[Ender]

We just went thru this last month. We wanted to go to a 4/40 but the vote was lost by 4 votes. so if we went to the 4/40 we would have to pay overtime each day, the company chos not to. if you do not have the 66% vote in favor, you are in violation of the law and could be heavily fined.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Ender
We just went thru this last month. We wanted to go to a 4/40 but the vote was lost by 4 votes. so if we went to the 4/40 we would have to pay overtime each day, the company chos not to. if you do not have the 66% vote in favor, you are in violation of the law and could be heavily fined.

Hi Ender,

Like you said in your state and in your local Union or Company these are the problems of the 4/40 verus the 5/40. Therefore not a federal issue. In Michigan you can work 4/10. It is the UAW and other Unions that states if someone works over the 8 hours it is overtime. Now the Unions can decide to work the 4/10 and therby having any hours worked on the fifth day be overtime. I knew of plants that did this a few years ago. Now there might be some interesting laws in your state, and that is fine. I just think that the laws should be written to allow for it with out having special addendums to address, if the person works two weeks straight of 12 hour days for 168 hours, and then the company does not work them the next two weeks, and thereby not have to pay them the over time for those week or for the weeks not worked. Yet there average is about 40 hours a week for the month so they cannot collect unemployment for those two weeks.

These are the issues that people are concerned about. Personally, I think if you can work 4/40 and get work done, you
should be able.

Either way you get the sma enumber of work hours and the same number of hours off in the week, just rearranged.

Now, I do not think anyone is against you being able to work 4/40. the problem is that the current Federal Bills are like usually not straight forward and are not what you see or hear from the respective groups.

More later as I have to run to a meeting

 

[Ender]

exactly. and that is the reason for the legislation, to provide a uniform code across the country on this issue. One can argue that this is a states rights issue and not a federal issue, and that would be a valid point.

I personally don't think the legislation would get very far because unions would lose power over working hours.

 

[Nightingale]

I (and my union) would be fine with the legislation as long as it said that the time off had to be in the same pay period... otherwise, you could, in theory, have someone work 8 hours of overtime every day, and then give them six months off at the end of a year! that seems kinda nutty.

 

[OULobo]

I think we are also overlooking the issue of safety in the workplace. While you can manage a few 10 hour days or a couple 12 hour days, the human body is not meant to do this for very long. I think running it out to a year will get occational extreme cases like what Nightinggale said and have some hungry shop guys like my Pops or some freshy out of school working full 12hr a day full weeks and not only damaging their own health, but putting others in the work environment at risk. I personally think that 40 and maybe 80 hour work week cut offs are safe and reasonable. Overtime is both a way to benefit hardworking laborers and a deterent against overworking managment. I'm in a managment position (albeit raised in a union family), and I see long hours and heavy workloads as damaging to the company's productivity (more scrap and liability for accidents).

 

[arnisador]

Whatever they're trying to fix, I know that there are lots of concerns over the ever-present Law of Unintended Consequences in this case.

 

[molson]

I have to agree that as a safety professional I see long hours (12 or more) leading to higher accident rates.

 

[Ender]

then why do we insist the doctors doing residences work on 48 hours shifts?*L.....now THATS unsafe!*S

 

[pknox]

True - and nursing staff routinely does 12 hour rotations. You get 4 days for 40, but it's 3x12 and 1x4. I agree that it can be dangerous as well. When I was working in a hospital, they would let us do up to 16 hours in a row -- you would then have to take at least 8 hours off. I saw plenty of people due 16 hrs, go in the back and sleep for 8, and then do 16 more. It's amazing someone wasn't killed.