David Peterson's new book on Wong Shun Leung

[Marnetmar]

Can you guys take it to your PM box please?

 

[Phobius]

Can you guys take it to your PM box please?

Agree and sorry, never thought something like that would lead to a huge discussion. Anyways I will eventually receive the book myself, gonna be an interesting read.

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy, I'm really looking forward to your review after you finish reading it. Please keep us posted! --Steve

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I finished reading it--330 Pages-a collection of well written eassays with sections on the forms, concepts, drills, biographical essays, a photo gallery and appendices. Its the most complete to date of writing on WSL. Should be part of every wing chun collection.

WSL was the best known of Ip Man's students though, in my judgement alaways the best informed among his contemporaries.
.
My sigung is Ho Kam Ming and there are similarities and diffrences between them. Both learned directly frol Ip Man-though Ip Man is likely to have taken some things with him. Though WSL said that he taught what he learned from Ip Man- some WSL folks in their understandable hero worship tend
to mininmize Ip Man's greatness by saying that Ip Man changed some things because of WSL's advice here and there.
Most of the basic wc/wt things are there in the book- the square facing,combined attack and defense, the importance of slt and chum kiu (including the importance of chor ma)
The concept section could have been developed more and more details on footwork-afterall IM was even better with his feet than his excellent hands.
But that is just an observation not a complant. All in all a good but expensive(hard cover) book.

 

[guy b.]

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I finished reading it--330 Pages-a collection of well written eassays with sections on the forms, concepts, drills, biographical essays, a photo gallery and appendices. Its the most complete to date of writing on WSL. Should be part of every wing chun collection.

WSL was the best known of Ip Man's students though, in my judgement alaways the best informed among his contemporaries.
.
My sigung is Ho Kam Ming and there are similarities and diffrences between them. Both learned directly frol Ip Man-though Ip Man is likely to have taken some things with him. Though WSL said that he taught what he learned from Ip Man- some WSL folks in their understandable hero worship tend
to mininmize Ip Man's greatness by saying that Ip Man changed some things because of WSL's advice here and there.
Most of the basic wc/wt things are there in the book- the square facing,combined attack and defense, the importance of slt and chum kiu (including the importance of chor ma)
The concept section could have been developed more and more details on footwork-afterall IM was even better with his feet than his excellent hands.
But that is just an observation not a complant. All in all a good but expensive(hard cover) book.

Thanks for summarising. It is very expensive!

What would you say are the main differences between HKM teachings as you have received and DP's WSL VT?

 

[geezer]

Thanks for summarising. It is very expensive!

What would you say are the main differences between HKM teachings as you have received and DP's WSL VT?

Hey Guy, while we are on the subject, what are the main differences between Philip Bayer's WSL WC and David Peterson's based on what you've seen?

 

[guy b.]

Hey Guy, while we are on the subject, what are the main differences between Philip Bayer's WSL WC and David Peterson's based on what you've seen?

I have only been to one DP seminar personally. I have met a few people who are affiliates of his but don't know if they are fully representative.

Philipp Bayer is a much better exponent of the system than DP so it is hard to compare directly based on the feel of what they do. I think he would be physically and mentally better no matter the system. PB, although well past his best years, still feels overwhelming. DP feels like a normal person.

In terms of ideas though I think PB much more complete, coherent and satisfying. PB teaches a full system, real kung fu, no gaps. DP is more like my first teacher, from what I have heard from him. I have never trained long term with DP though so could be wrong, just my impression. I think DP is a good historian of VT and he produces some good categorisations, documentation, essays.

 

[Vajramusti]

Ip Man had his own sense of humor. He gave nicknames to some of his students. For WSL it was Yat Ji Wong
(One formula Wong).Apparently WSL often gave herbal suggestions to his students. WSL's father was an herbalist.WSL seemeed to have a single formula. When asked about this IM repportedly said "Well it can cure you
or kill you-You only need one formula".

 

[guy b.]

Ip Man had his own sense of humor. He gave nicknames to some of his students. For WSL it was Yat Ji Wong
(One formula Wong).Apparently WSL often gave herbal suggestions to his students. WSL's father was an herbalist.WSL seemeed to have a single formula. When asked about this IM repportedly said "Well it can cure you
or kill you-You only need one formula".

What would you say are the main differences between HKM teachings as you have received and DP's WSL VT as presented in his book?

 

[geezer]

What would you say are the main differences between HKM teachings as you have received and DP's WSL VT as presented in his book?

This is an exact re-posting of post #24. Joy may be a bit hard of hearing (as am I) but it seems to me that his reading comprehension is just fine. So there's no point in repeating yourself. If he chose not to respond the first time, so be it. Let's move on.

 

[Tames D]

This is an exact re-posting of post #24. Joy may be a bit hard of hearing (as am I) but it seems to me that his reading comprehension is just fine. So there's no point in repeating yourself. If he chose not to respond the first time, so be it. Let's move on.

I thought this was a fair question to ask again. Maybe Joy missed it the first time? I would also be interested in hearing Joys answer to the question.
If I recall Joy started this thread, it would be nice if he would answer questions. Although he certainly has the right to ignore them.

 

[Vajramusti]

This is an exact re-posting of post #24. Joy may be a bit hard of hearing (as am I) but it seems to me that his reading comprehension is just fine. So there's no point in repeating yourself. If he chose not to respond the first time, so be it. Let's move on.

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Yup-nothing wrong with my reading and understanding.Hard of hearing yes- that does not affect reading, understanding, punching, timing and many other things. I gave a review of Peteson's book. I have met and chi saoed with WL twice in San Francisco and Texas during his US visit, watched his demos and whatever videos I could find. I respect him-but I am just fine with the path that I have taken in the Augustine Fong and Ho Kamming versions of wing chun.My faults are mine- not theirs..
Without putting anyone down-that should be a clear enough answer.

 

[guy b.]

Yup-nothing wrong with my reading and understanding.Hard of hearing yes- that does not affect reading, understanding, punching, timing and many other things. I gave a review of Peteson's book. I have met and chi saoed with WL twice in San Francisco and Texas during his US visit, watched his demos and whatever videos I could find. I respect him-but I am just fine with the path that I have taken in the Augustine Fong and Ho Kamming versions of wing chun.My faults are mine- not theirs..
Without putting anyone down-that should be a clear enough answer

You can always answer in a diplomatic way if the idea of being disrespectful to WSL bothers you. Personally I will not be offended whatever you say and would prefer you speak plainly- it avoids misunderstanding. PM me if you don't want to say anything on the open forum.

More than your opinion that HKM is better than WSL, which is obvious since you train HKM VT, I am interested to know about specific differences in approach, what you see as strengths and weaknesses. That kind of thing. Nothing that should cause a diplomatic incident between different branches of VT?

 

[KPM]

I would be interested in Joy's response as well. Because I'm guessing he would end up telling you that what he saw and experienced from WSL himself is not necessarily what Phillip Bayer is doing. But I could be wrong.

 

[guy b.]

I would be interested in Joy's response as well. Because I'm guessing he would end up telling you that what he saw and experienced from WSL himself is not necessarily what Phillip Bayer is doing. But I could be wrong.

That would be no problem. I am not invested in a particular personality, only a method.

What would be interesting would be to contrast WSL and DP (in terms of DP's book), and WSL/DP and HKM, who I have no experience of but am curious about.

 

[Vajramusti]

You can always answer in a diplomatic way if the idea of being disrespectful to WSL bothers you. Personally I will not be offended whatever you say and would prefer you speak plainly- it avoids misunderstanding. PM me if you don't want to say anything on the open forum.

More than your opinion that HKM is better than WSL, which is obvious since you train HKM VT, I am interested to know about specific differences in approach, what you see as strengths and weaknesses. That kind of thing. Nothing that should cause a diplomatic incident between different branches of VT?

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I am not a concerned about you being offended as I am about appearing to disrespect WSL.
HKM's stsnce is more "united" and his elbow work subtle, detailed and strong Now ofcourse he is about 90 years old
and WSL is gone.
WSL staggered a bit in moving chi sao (no blows). HKM never did-more stable structure.

 

[guy b.]

-----------------------------------------------------
I am not a concerned about you being offended as I am about appearing to disrespect WSL.
HKM's stsnce is more "united" and his elbow work subtle, detailed and strong Now ofcourse he is about 90 years old
and WSL is gone.
WSL staggered a bit in moving chi sao (no blows). HKM never did-more stable structure.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Vajramusti]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I finished reading it--330 Pages-a collection of well written eassays with sections on the forms, concepts, drills, biographical essays, a photo gallery and appendices. Its the most complete to date of writing on WSL. Should be part of every wing chun collection.

WSL was the best known of Ip Man's students though, in my judgment not always the best informed among his contemporaries.
.
My sigung is Ho Kam Ming and there are similarities and diffrences between them. Both learned directly frol Ip Man-though Ip Man is likely to have taken some things with him. Though WSL said that he taught what he learned from Ip Man- some WSL folks in their understandable hero worship tend
to mininmize Ip Man's greatness by saying that Ip Man changed some things because of WSL's advice here and there.
Most of the basic wc/wt things are there in the book- the square facing,combined attack and defense, the importance of slt and chum kiu (including the importance of chor ma)
The concept section could have been developed more and more details on footwork-afterall IM was even better with his feet than his excellent hands.
But that is just an observation not a complant. All in all a good but expensive(hard cover) book.

 

[Jens]

Joy Ho Kam Ming was no wck god either. lol

"It pity to say that all those who were first trained by me and particularly Ho Kam Ming had never say a thank to me. Quite disappointed. Before I brought Ho Kam Ming to Master Yip Man, I had taught Ho Kam Ming with Siu Nim Tau and Chum Kiu. I had difficult time in teaching Ho who then, practised other type of Chinese Kung Fu. By then, Ho had difficult time at punching centre line. I had used harsh words - such as "you will never practised Ving Tsun Well". However, I made many suggestion to Ho Kam Ming to improve his Ving Tsun. Skill. Nevertheless, Ho had never appreciated my advises."

Hang Lum Andrew Ma senior disciple of Master Yip Man.

 

[Vajramusti]

Joy Ho Kam Ming was no wck god either. lol

"It pity to say that all those who were first trained by me and particularly Ho Kam Ming had never say a thank to me. Quite disappointed. Before I brought Ho Kam Ming to Master Yip Man, I had taught Ho Kam Ming with Siu Nim Tau and Chum Kiu. I had difficult time in teaching Ho who then, practised other type of Chinese Kung Fu. By then, Ho had difficult time at punching centre line. I had used harsh words - such as "you will never practised Ving Tsun Well". However, I made many suggestion to Ho Kam Ming to improve his Ving Tsun. Skill. Nevertheless, Ho had never appreciated my advises."

Hang Lum Andrew Ma senior disciple of Master Yip Man.

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Everyone has opinions.

 

[dudewingchun]

Joy Ho Kam Ming was no wck god either. lol

"It pity to say that all those who were first trained by me and particularly Ho Kam Ming had never say a thank to me. Quite disappointed. Before I brought Ho Kam Ming to Master Yip Man, I had taught Ho Kam Ming with Siu Nim Tau and Chum Kiu. I had difficult time in teaching Ho who then, practised other type of Chinese Kung Fu. By then, Ho had difficult time at punching centre line. I had used harsh words - such as "you will never practised Ving Tsun Well". However, I made many suggestion to Ho Kam Ming to improve his Ving Tsun. Skill. Nevertheless, Ho had never appreciated my advises."

Hang Lum Andrew Ma senior disciple of Master Yip Man.

That Andrew Ma has a lot to say from what iv read from him ! Anyone know anything about him ?