Criminals always get guns...

[billc]

This is one thing the anti-gunners never seem to understand...criminals will always be able to get guns...

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ling-Guns-Station-Precinct-Cop-162343096.html

An NYPD officer has been arrested in connection with a months-long firearms trafficking investigation after he allegedly stole guns from his precinct to be sold on the street and arranged drug buys while on duty, authorities said.
Nicholas Mina was arrested late Thursday and charged with conspiracy, grand larceny and sale of a firearm, among other crimes. Information on an attorney wasn't immediately available. He and four co-conspirators who were also arrested were scheduled to be arraigned Friday.
Authorities say the group allegedly trafficked at least 10 guns over a two-month period. The alleged ringleader of the group, Ivan Chavez, is accused of procuring firearms from various sources and removing serial numbers before selling them, prosecutors said.
Four additional firearms were recovered from his home when a search warrant was executed. Charges against him are pending and information on an attorney wasn't available.

 

[Takai]

Disgraceful! The colorful metaphors that come to mind are not appropriate for this forum.

 

[jezr74]

What makes you think anti-gun people would think that?

I find it curious, I've recently moved from Australia to Massachusetts and am learning about the culture here, gun control seems to always be a hot topic and gets people in both camps worked up.


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[billc]

Well, it is their general approach to firearms. The people who don't like ordinary citizens having weapons, and carrying them for protection, always push for more laws to control who has firearms and in most cases they want complete bans on ownership. As the article above shows, even if you completely banned all private ownership of guns, the criminals will always have access to them because there will always be firearms. Since laws mean nothing to "law breakers," only decent, ordinary citizens won't have firearms, if an outright ban ever comes to pass.

 

[WC_lun]

jtsm, being able to own guns is a basic right in this country. However, gun violence has polarized the us into basically 4 camps. The first two are on opposite sides, but might find some common ground the work with. The first are responsible gun owner. They understand that owning a gun is a responsibility as well as a right. They don't think thier rights should be abridged because of other peole who are criminals, but they don't have problems with common sense gun laws. The second group are people that don't own guns, generally don't understand that culture, but don't want to take away the rights to own guns. However, they want stricter controls on access to guns. The other two groups are the extremist. Those that feel there should be no restrictions at all up to and including bazookas and rpgs if they can afford them. Then there are those that feel people in the US should not be able to own any gun legally, aboloshing that from the constitution.

Mix a combination of people from those 4 groups into a discussion and yeah, things can get heated pretty quickly.

 

[Wo Fat]

"Criminals always get guns ..."

Very true. If our laws were as tough on the criminals who sell and/or distribute guns, as they were on the criminals who receive and possess guns, we'd be better off. As it were, we have done a pretty good job of determining who the receiving/possessing criminals are. What remains is determining who the selling/distributing criminals are.

In the case referenced in the original post, the selling/distributing criminals includes not only a cop (someone who, before he was caught, technically had no criminal record) but also includes "various sources".

So if we are to get serious about getting guns out of the hands of criminals, we need to get extremely tough on the "various sources" who willingly and knowingly supply and distribute guns illegally. And I'm not sure that the guns-at-any-cost crowd has the stomach for that.

 

[billc]

Well, if you are for legalization of drugs, it would be funny if you were against guns, seeing as how banning guns would follow the same pattern as trying to ban drugs. (not saying anyone here is for drug legalization but against firearm ownership and carriage, more of the general you...)

 

[Wo Fat]

Well, if you are for legalization of drugs, it would be funny if you were against guns, seeing as how banning guns would follow the same pattern as trying to ban drugs. (not saying anyone here is for drug legalization but against firearm ownership and carriage, more of the general you...)

Which is why many people--myself included--have no problem with reasonable regulation of both guns and drugs. You (the general you) ought to be able to have a few guns for protection, hunting and sport. What's a few? It's probably along the same line as being able to possess your own marijuana, but no so much that you're trafficking or endangering the public, neighbors, etc.

That kind of reasonable.

 

[Takai]

Very true. If our laws were as tough on the criminals who sell and/or distribute guns, as they were on the criminals who receive and possess guns, we'd be better off. As it were, we have done a pretty good job of determining who the receiving/possessing criminals are. What remains is determining who the selling/distributing criminals are.

In the case referenced in the original post, the selling/distributing criminals includes not only a cop (someone who, before he was caught, technically had no criminal record) but also includes "various sources".

So if we are to get serious about getting guns out of the hands of criminals, we need to get extremely tough on the "various sources" who willingly and knowingly supply and distribute guns illegally. And I'm not sure that the guns-at-any-cost crowd has the stomach for that.

You still end up in the circular here. You punish the criminals to what end? The already have proven that the have disregard for laws. So more laws and "tougher" action will enact a "change". Take a look at the countries that have taken this tact with gun restriction and see what you find.

 

[Wo Fat]

You still end up in the circular here. You punish the criminals to what end? The already have proven that the have disregard for laws. So more laws and "tougher" action will enact a "change". Take a look at the countries that have taken this tact with gun restriction and see what you find.

You're missing my point. There is criminality on two ends: the receiving end, and the selling/distributing end.

If you go back and re-read the original post, you will note that the criminals in that case illegally procured guns from "various sources". Notice how the individual suspect is named, while the "various sources" who engaged in the illegal procurement are not?

 

[ballen0351]

You're missing my point. There is criminality on two ends: the receiving end, and the selling/distributing end.

If you go back and re-read the original post, you will note that the criminals in that case illegally procured guns from "various sources". Notice how the individual suspect is named, while the "various sources" who engaged in the illegal procurement are not?

Maybe various sources are being charged as well but its not as exciting for the news story as the bad cop. More important to sell the story the report all the facts

 

[Master Dan]

This is one thing the anti-gunners never seem to understand...criminals will always be able to get guns...

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ling-Guns-Station-Precinct-Cop-162343096.html

You bring up a good point supply and demand. There is such a high demand for both guns and drugs that a % of law enforcement including INS can't say no not to mention regular folk. The cartels even pay people large sums of money to be caught so the 75% can get through and also make the enforcement side look good like they are doing thier job or making a difference what a crock. I do think its funny allowing high tech asault rifles ammon and the like under the guise of hunting? 10 yars ago I was at the counter in a shop that sold auto parts and bombs spears for killing whales and the Eskimo elder standing there with an AR15 with a 30 shell clip and a whole bunch of amo I looked and said what you gonna hunt with that? He said anything I want to?

 

[Master Dan]

Bill why is nobody crying about the gun laws in Arizona Wild West? totally unrestricted obvious massive sales urecorded to gun runners and the feds not allowed to do electronic tracking of guns by law in that state? The NRA has it hands so far in the nickers of DC polititions how can any of it change I love I don't need a gun permit for concealed weopon here I can go anywhere except a bar or school and the like legally but Alaska is very different from lower 48?

 

[billc]

Arizona is one of the states that eric "americans are cowards" holder was running the Fast and Furious program where they forced gun dealers to sell large quantities of semi-automatic rifles, up to 2500, to straw purchasers for the drug cartels. They made no attempt to track them, preferring that they simply be found at murder sites so they could push their gun control agenda...I heard the author of this book on Dennis Prager, and she documents the emails and other information that supports the details of this operation...The I.R.S was also involved, helping the gun dealers who were required to make the sales to manage their tax returns so that the large amounts of cash could be accounted for...

http://www.amazon.com/Fast-Furious-...d=1342407951&sr=8-2&keywords=fast+and+furious