credible certification

[Runs With Fire]

As far as a "self defense program", what reputable institutions offer instructors, certifications which are considered legitimate and respectable in the martial artists community?

 

[Dylan9d]

As far as a "self defense program", what reputable institutions offer instructors, certifications which are considered legitimate and respectable in the martial artists community?

For me personally it's the certifications you need to work for, so not the well known Krav Maga 180 hour programs.

For me an instructor is a practitioner that practised a Martial Art for a very long time (like years), not someone that decided 180 hours ago they wanted to be a certified instructor....

 

[JR 137]

Police departments. I'm not sure what other government run law enforcement agencies offer self defense seminars, but if the FBI, CIA, Army, et. al. offers self defense seminars, I'd suggest those too. Law enforcement agencies go with statistical research and facts. Are they fool proof and perfect? Probably not. Are they going by the seat of their pants? I'd be willing to bet a lot of money they're not.

Certifications are only as credible as the issuer. If you trust that issuer, there's no problem. If you don't know or don't trust the issuer, the certification should be meaningless.

 

[Flying Crane]

Given that martial arts in the US have no governmental oversight, and any organizations that do exist are attempts at self-governance which nobody has any obligation to accept, the answer is none.

That doesn't mean that there are no good programs that people are offering. But they would need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and often boil down to how effective a particular instructor is. You will not find any programs that are universally recognized and respected by all or many or some people in the martial arts.

 

[MI_martialist]

www.us-mta.com

 

[jks9199]

As far as a "self defense program", what reputable institutions offer instructors, certifications which are considered legitimate and respectable in the martial artists community?

Not quite sure what you're looking for.

There are a number of programs available if you want to become a "self defense instructor" apart from actual martial arts training. One example is R.A.D. which is used by a number of police departments to provide self defense classes to the public. There are other, similar programs out there, but I'm personally familiar with R.A.D. They teach a solid basic self defense curriculum that can be learned and retained fairly easily.

If you're looking for something you can take to be more effective... Well, there are tons of options out there.

 

[Juany118]

Given that martial arts in the US have no governmental oversight, and any organizations that do exist are attempts at self-governance which nobody has any obligation to accept, the answer is none.

That doesn't mean that there are no good programs that people are offering. But they would need to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and often boil down to how effective a particular instructor is. You will not find any programs that are universally recognized and respected by all or many or some people in the martial arts.

The first part is kinda right, kinda not. Let me explain. Government Agencies such as State Agencies, DoJ and DoD will certify people, based on objective criteria, as SMEs aka "Subject Matter Experts." These are the people they will often give the contracts to for teaching members of various agencies, @ the Navy Advanced Warfare Center etc.

Then you have Nationally recognized organizations like the NTOA (National Tactical Officers Association) that act as a filter.

Most, if not all, of the "bonafides" I listed will also certify the person as an expert witness in terms of Court Testimony as well. So if I was just looking for a self defense instructor I would look at their resume. If they have an SME tag or a record of training others under the umbrella of one of the Organization's that establishes National Standard for Government Special Operators, I would say that is a better gauge than looking at the specific system they teach. Example, my Sifu's Sifu is an SME for HIDTA, the US Navy Special Warfare Command and others. Now he doesn't teach unadulterated WC there, it would take too long to build the skill set. However he has the knowledge of WC, and other arts, to pass on an effective combatives system to students in the organization's he has taught, even including firearms as needed as well since he is also an SME in CQB.
Those qualifications are the most important, imo.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

The first part is kinda right, kinda not. Let me explain. Government Agencies such as State Agencies, DoJ and DoD will certify people, based on objective criteria, as SMEs aka "Subject Matter Experts." These are the people they will often give the contracts to for teaching members of various agencies, @ the Navy Advanced Warfare Center etc.

Then you have Nationally recognized organizations like the NTOA (National Tactical Officers Association) that act as a filter.

Most, if not all, of the "bonafides" I listed will also certify the person as an expert witness in terms of Court Testimony as well. So if I was just looking for a self defense instructor I would look at their resume. If they have an SME tag or a record of training others under the umbrella of one of the Organization's that establishes National Standard for Government Special Operators, I would say that is a better gauge than looking at the specific system they teach. Example, my Sifu's Sifu is an SME for HIDTA, the US Navy Special Warfare Command and others. Now he doesn't teach unadulterated WC there, it would take too long to build the skill set. However he has the knowledge of WC, and other arts, to pass on an effective combatives system to students in the organization's he has taught, even including firearms as needed as well since he is also an SME in CQB.
Those qualifications are the most important, imo.

Interesting. What sort of objective criteria do these agencies look at when certifying individuals as SMEs?

 

[Juany118]

Interesting. What sort of objective criteria do these agencies look at when certifying individuals as SMEs?

Not 100% sure at that level. My Sifu, and his Sifu, are both SME's, for the DoJ and a couple States. His Sifu actually just got his SME from the US Navy Advanced Warfare Command as a matter of fact (has had one with DoJ, USMC and SOCOM for a bit though). I will ask my Sifu at the next class for the details on what it takes. That said...

I would expect part of it is "Training and Experience." As an example my Sifu's Sifu can say he is a private student of Sigung Cheung and the head of the TWC organization in the US. Sigung Cheung was the chief Martial Arts instructor for the 7th Fleet from 78-80 and since 79 he, and some of his personal students started teaching LE. First in Australia then outside Australia. Then he can point to personally teaching period for decades and being the VP of Personal Protection and Tactical Training for a consultancy. Among other things he and my Sifu did the security audit of, and the redesign of security methods, for the House of Blues company. Resumes mean a lot. Document the training and experience and the times said was successful. After that there is usually a required testing of knowledge.

I am guessing the above because it is what I am familiar with on the "intellectual" side because at the State Level I used to be an "Expert" in the field of Narcotics Investigations. I stepped away from the Specialty unit that allowed me to "stay in practice" so I would have to brush up on current pricing, concealment tactics etc to be an expert beyond local court again. I mentioned this last bit because you can lose the status. Don't keep up with training, make obvious mistakes when acting as an SME and you lose it.

 

[Flying Crane]

The first part is kinda right, kinda not. Let me explain. Government Agencies such as State Agencies, DoJ and DoD will certify people, based on objective criteria, as SMEs aka "Subject Matter Experts." These are the people they will often give the contracts to for teaching members of various agencies, @ the Navy Advanced Warfare Center etc.

Then you have Nationally recognized organizations like the NTOA (National Tactical Officers Association) that act as a filter.

Most, if not all, of the "bonafides" I listed will also certify the person as an expert witness in terms of Court Testimony as well. So if I was just looking for a self defense instructor I would look at their resume. If they have an SME tag or a record of training others under the umbrella of one of the Organization's that establishes National Standard for Government Special Operators, I would say that is a better gauge than looking at the specific system they teach. Example, my Sifu's Sifu is an SME for HIDTA, the US Navy Special Warfare Command and others. Now he doesn't teach unadulterated WC there, it would take too long to build the skill set. However he has the knowledge of WC, and other arts, to pass on an effective combatives system to students in the organization's he has taught, even including firearms as needed as well since he is also an SME in CQB.
Those qualifications are the most important, imo.

Oh, I am sure the government has their credential issues for this, in terms of who is allowed to officially teach law enforcement and military and intelligence members, that isn't surprising.

But for a random Joe Civillian who is looking for a self-defense course or martial arts instruction, who probably does not have access to people ivolved with the government programs and who is probably looking at the various martial arts instructors located within a 20 mile radius of his home or workplace, I think my comments are quite accurate. The government does not regulate or license martial arts schools or self defense schools for public consumption. So any certifications or "licensing" are self-created and only regulate an organization for itself, not as any kind of objective and official credentiallying, and in no way guarantees quality of one sort or another.

Caveate emptor, the student needs to do a bit of research on the instructor and then make an evaluation and a decision about what he wants to go to.

Basing such a decision on whether or not the instructor holds some kind of certification issued by the government to teach government agents, will probably eliminate the vast majority of instructors from the running. I would hazard a guess that by far, most instructors do not have such certification.

That was my read on the question in the OP. if I have misunderstood the initial question, maybe the OP can clarify.

 

[wingchun100]

Not 100% sure at that level. My Sifu, and his Sifu, are both SME's, for the DoJ and a couple States. His Sifu actually just got his SME from the US Navy Advanced Warfare Command as a matter of fact (has had one with DoJ, USMC and SOCOM for a bit though). I will ask my Sifu at the next class for the details on what it takes. That said...

I would expect part of it is "Training and Experience." As an example my Sifu's Sifu can say he is a private student of Sigung Cheung and the head of the TWC organization in the US. Sigung Cheung was the chief Martial Arts instructor for the 7th Fleet from 78-80 and since 79 he, and some of his personal students started teaching LE. First in Australia then outside Australia. Then he can point to personally teaching period for decades and being the VP of Personal Protection and Tactical Training for a consultancy. Among other things he and my Sifu did the security audit of, and the redesign of security methods, for the House of Blues company. Resumes mean a lot. Document the training and experience and the times said was successful. After that there is usually a required testing of knowledge.

I am guessing the above because it is what I am familiar with on the "intellectual" side because at the State Level I used to be an "Expert" in the field of Narcotics Investigations. I stepped away from the Specialty unit that allowed me to "stay in practice" so I would have to brush up on current pricing, concealment tactics etc to be an expert beyond local court again. I mentioned this last bit because you can lose the status. Don't keep up with training, make obvious mistakes when acting as an SME and you lose it.

I had a question for you about this, although it involves something I am not ready to discuss openly on the boards. Watch for a PM.

 

[Paul_D]

For me personally it's the certifications you need to work for, so not the well known Krav Maga 180 hour programs.

For me an instructor is a practitioner that practised a Martial Art for a very long time (like years), not someone that decided 180 hours ago they wanted to be a certified instructor....

The majority of self defence skills are not martial in nature, and martial arts instructors in my experience generally make very poor self defence instructors as they, for the most part, only posses the physical skills.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The majority of self defence skills are not martial in nature, and martial arts instructors in my experience generally make very poor self defence instructors as they, for the most part, only posses the physical skills.

Here we go again...

 

[Runs With Fire]

That's pretty good.

 

[Tames D]

Here we go again...

 

[Juany118]

Oh, I am sure the government has their credential issues for this, in terms of who is allowed to officially teach law enforcement and military and intelligence members, that isn't surprising.

But for a random Joe Civillian who is looking for a self-defense course or martial arts instruction, who probably does not have access to people ivolved with the government programs and who is probably looking at the various martial arts instructors located within a 20 mile radius of his home or workplace, I think my comments are quite accurate. The government does not regulate or license martial arts schools or self defense schools for public consumption. So any certifications or "licensing" are self-created and only regulate an organization for itself, not as any kind of objective and official credentiallying, and in no way guarantees quality of one sort or another.

Caveate emptor, the student needs to do a bit of research on the instructor and then make an evaluation and a decision about what he wants to go to.

Basing such a decision on whether or not the instructor holds some kind of certification issued by the government to teach government agents, will probably eliminate the vast majority of instructors from the running. I would hazard a guess that by far, most instructors do not have such certification.

That was my read on the question in the OP. if I have misunderstood the initial question, maybe the OP can clarify.

Thing is you can have access to these people. Example, my Sifu and his each hold "open" Seminars regularly at their respective schools. My school hosted a "Active Shooter" for Civilians seminar a couple months ago. The mother school in he near future is hosting a "Street Survival" Seminar that will cover things like situation specific postures based on ranges of attack and how to identify the ranges, proper scanning of your environment to prevent and address the attack if it comes, how to look for weapons of opportunity etc.

These SME's have day jobs. Yes, some are active in the LE community, a surprising number however are in the Private Sector and do training for Civilians.

 

[Dylan9d]

The majority of self defence skills are not martial in nature, and martial arts instructors in my experience generally make very poor self defence instructors as they, for the most part, only posses the physical skills.

Sorry but this statement is the biggest jibberish I have ever seen in the 25 years I'm involved in martial arts.

You are most likely a Krav Maga or Systema instructor?

 

[Runs With Fire]

But for a random Joe Civillian who is looking for a self-defense course or martial arts instruction, who probably does not have access to people ivolved with the government programs and who is probably looking at the various martial arts instructors located within a 20 mile radius of his home or workplace, I think my comments are quite accurate. The government does not regulate or license martial arts schools or self defense schools for public consumption. So any certifications or "licensing" are self-created and only regulate an organization for itself, not as any kind of objective and official credentiallying, and in no way guarantees quality of one sort or another.

Caveate emptor, the student needs to do a bit of research on the instructor and then make an evaluation and a decision about what he wants to go to.

.

Sounds about right. A good certification or set of issued credentials just means somebody with a name, or orginization, thinks you can do the job. It's not necessarily much of a factor for the average person, but it is a good part of a strong resume. most certifications are quite simple and easy yo get; Show me what you can do, or, Take a quick study and pass a test, there you go.
Myself, I am a certified black belt in tang soo do and tae kwon do. Most who are into continuous training in a self defense, street smart way are wary of that for good reason. I have a training certificate in a hybrid defense system. I am cerified as a krav maga instructor from an (small but solid) affiliated group. Looking into the potential of starting a local group myself, way out here in the boondocks, I think a basic certification from a group big enough to look more legitimate to any average redneck, like myself, could be handy. Certification doesn't mean beans as far as what an instructor can actually teach. It just looks better. Then, there is the opportunity of additional training that often will come as a prerequisite of some certification.

 

[Flying Crane]

Thing is you can have access to these people. Example, my Sifu and his each hold "open" Seminars regularly at their respective schools. My school hosted a "Active Shooter" for Civilians seminar a couple months ago. The mother school in he near future is hosting a "Street Survival" Seminar that will cover things like situation specific postures based on ranges of attack and how to identify the ranges, proper scanning of your environment to prevent and address the attack if it comes, how to look for weapons of opportunity etc.

These SME's have day jobs. Yes, some are active in the LE community, a surprising number however are in the Private Sector and do training for Civilians.

Yes, you can have access to them, but most people don't, and it doesn't matter.

 

[Flying Crane]

Sounds about right. A good certification or set of issued credentials just means somebody with a name, or orginization, thinks you can do the job. It's not necessarily much of a factor for the average person, but it is a good part of a strong resume. most certifications are quite simple and easy yo get; Show me what you can do, or, Take a quick study and pass a test, there you go.
Myself, I am a certified black belt in tang soo do and tae kwon do. Most who are into continuous training in a self defense, street smart way are wary of that for good reason. I have a training certificate in a hybrid defense system. I am cerified as a krav maga instructor from an (small but solid) affiliated group. Looking into the potential of starting a local group myself, way out here in the boondocks, I think a basic certification from a group big enough to look more legitimate to any average redneck, like myself, could be handy. Certification doesn't mean beans as far as what an instructor can actually teach. It just looks better. Then, there is the opportunity of additional training that often will come as a prerequisite of some certification.

Sure, and being connected to a larger organization can be useful, or not. I don't think anything is universally respected or revered. Honestly, there are too many of them out there for most of us to even know what they are. But if there is an organization that feels solid to you, and it might help you in building your club, then go for it.