CMAs <---> O/J/KMAs???

[clfsean]

I am not disputing the focus on the delineation between internal and external is greater in the West than in China but I am disputing your original statement that you made

I don't see why. There's not much difference, just in delivery.

Since Sun Lutang wrote about it and my Sifu's Sifu (tung Ying Jie) used the terminology as well as did and do the Chen family therefore I do not agree that it was an idea from the west that moved east. It was an idea from the East that moved west and was changed however.

Well I've lost my Xingyi Quan Xue by SLT so I can't comment with any kind of compentency & I don't know your sifu so ditto there.

I still stand by my statement & when I find the quote from the author (who is well known), I'll post it. Until then, just personal experience in China & out is leading my comment.

We are MUCH more focused on it here in the West than they appeared to be in China. And much of that focus, in my opinion, is that the people practicing things like Taiji light (and sadly I am now seeing Bagua light) want to justify their lack of actual training and give themsselves a since of superiority to what they label as external MA and thereby justify their lack of training and fool themselves into believing they can actually defend themselves.

No arguements there.

What is said about internal and external in China is that if trained properly

Internal leads to external and external leads to internal.

The problem that occurs is that one focus to much on one and not the other.

Again no argument there. "IF" being the main point here... if they're done properly, you get that.

And when I was in China I saw a lot of Contemporary Wushu and Wushu (they are not the same) but it was not all Contemporary Wushu. Go to the parks and you will find the real deal, which by many Chinese is called Wushu, in China or at least in the north Wushu is martial arts there are just different types of it.

Yes I know that. I believe I'm one of the biggest advocates of the segregation of the two, but still wushu is wushu there.

I spent time in Tian Tan park in Beijing taking in the people practicing. I spent time in Zhengzhou watching people in the parks there & at the academy in Chen Village. Then I went to Shaolin & wanted to go back to Zhengzhou or Chen Village. In Xian it was modern Wushu all the way until Zhao Chang Jun's teacher got up & knocked out some Xingyi.

It is a translation and meaning issue that changes things here in the west.

It is but it is also a desire here in the West to categorize & catalog in strict terms rather than just taking it for what it is.

Contemporary Wushu is, at least by my definition, acrobatic sport type stuff with little Martial training.

Wow... that's nicer than my thoughts on it. The best I offer is the performers are incredible athletes doing things I never could... or really want to.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't see why. There's not much difference, just in delivery.



Well I've lost my Xingyi Quan Xue by SLT so I can't comment with any kind of compentency & I don't know your sifu so ditto there.

I still stand by my statement & when I find the quote from the author (who is well known), I'll post it. Until then, just personal experience in China & out is leading my comment.

So you are standing by your statement Internal/External is an invention of the West and not of China, am I getting this correct?

 

[clfsean]

So you are standing by your statement Internal/External is an invention of the West and not of China, am I getting this correct?

No... I'm saying the stark deliniation between the two is naming laid on CMA's by the Western mind to grasp what the CMAs knew all along, but didn't care to discriminate since it was a means to the same end.

The same theories, ideas, techniques, etc... are found in both internal & external MA. Why is one relegated to one name & one the other? CLF issues jing just like Chen Taiji. Different jings, but still jing. Wing Chun uses sticky hands & bagua uses push hands... same basic idea & theories.

The application is different. The idea is the same. Except when you drop the post WW2 Americans in Asia from then til now, somebody early on asked a question & got an answer. From there it mushroomed.

 

[Xue Sheng]

No... I'm saying the stark deliniation between the two is naming laid on CMA's by the Western mind to grasp what the CMAs knew all along, but didn't care to discriminate since it was a means to the same end.

The same theories, ideas, techniques, etc... are found in both internal & external MA. Why is one relegated to one name & one the other? CLF issues jing just like Chen Taiji. Different jings, but still jing. Wing Chun uses sticky hands & bagua uses push hands... same basic idea & theories.

The application is different. The idea is the same. Except when you drop the post WW2 Americans in Asia from then til now, somebody early on asked a question & got an answer. From there it mushroomed.

And now we agree.... But we are also WAAAAAY off post... sorry exile

 

[clfsean]

Ah good...