Classical guitar fans, behold this interpretation of The Mysterious Barricades...

[Sukerkin]

Now that'd be an aural adventure . People have tended to forget as the centuries have gone by that what are now treated as staid, straight-laced, 'establishment' figures were the Bad Boys of Rock in their day :lol:.

 

[harlan]

The original version of 'dueling banjos'? LOL!

Improv used to be the name of the game. Handel and Scarlatti had a series of keyboard duels that people would pay to attend in which one offered a theme, the other came up with some hair-raising variations on it and then the first would take those variations and do mind-bending variations on the variations, and so back and forth they went for a couple of hours... sort of like musical fractals in real time. They made quite a haul that way, I gather. Now those guys knew all about improvisation....

Nice thread, BTW.

 

[Langenschwert]

Improv used to be the name of the game. Handel and Scarlatti had a series of keyboard duels that people would pay to attend in which one offered a theme, the other came up with some hair-raising variations on it and then the first would take those variations and do mind-bending variations on the variations, and so back and forth they went for a couple of hours... sort of like musical fractals in real time. They made quite a haul that way, I gather. Now those guys knew all about improvisation....

Indeed. After Mozart and his contemporaries died, improvisation died with them. Not until the 20th Century was improvisation revived, this time by jazz musicians. Bach certainly would have been a jazzer had he been born today. Being a jazz musician myself, I may be biased, but none of my classically trained friends dispute my point.

The tragedy about "classical" music was that it became ossified for a time until the early 20th century, and innovation was frowned on. There was a conductor (I forget which one) who refused to perform a piece because it had a 9th chord in 4th Inversion (e.g. C9/D, a common enough sound today in jazz), saying "there is no such thing as a 9th chord in 4th Inversion". Thank the gods for Webern, is all I can say to that.

The ossification that afflicted classical music now has stunted popular music to a nearly unprecedented degree today, with approximately 80% (or more) of any given song being merely re-hashing of earlier material, much like popular music of the 1950's. I'm surprised I don't see lots of poodle skirts to go with it. Heck, even drum tracks from one song are merely transferred to a new one rather than create and record a new drum part. That practice was particularly common in Nashville, IIRC. It will be many years before record companies allow another Led Zeppelin to happen. When a band like that comes out, they raise the bar and compel better performances from other musicians if they want to maintain any self-respect. It is much easier (and more importantly, cheaper) to produce bad music than it is to produce masterpieces.

Best regards,

-Mark

 

[Carol]

Its also suffered from a bit of (ahem) xenophobia. I have a 4 CD set of Indian ragis playing 200 year old instruments and singing some very traditional music. It sounds like a dream. A lot of it is religious in nature, much like the European composers wrote for the church. In India, this would be called "classical" music. In the west, it seems to under "world music" or "ethnic music" or some kind of "not the same as European-influenced serious music." A duet of sitar and tablas doesn't seem to have the same truck as a duet of piano and violin.

U.S. popular music started taking a major turn in the 1940s as our souldiers were getting deployed to places in the world that were mysterious to much of the population. Some of the songs, such as "Tampico" were released as music videos in theatres, only they were called "soundies" at the time...a lot of them introducing different beats and grooves that weren't previously heard in European-influenced music.

Perhaps that's exemplified by the great Louis Jordan, who started off his 1945 soundie for "Caldonia" by jokingly chiding with his bass player and saying "What you doin' boy...that ain't the beat we're supposed to play?"

[yt]xB-7tE07qms[/yt]

 

[MA-Caver]

That-- was-- GREAT Carol. Yeah, if not for the influences of the rest of the world then popular music in the U.S. would indeed be different.

One of other musical things/ideas/concepts I argued (figuratively speaking) with my Classically trained friend was that today's motion picture soundtracks (the genre of music) or film scores could conceivably be tomorrow's classical music. I'm talking about composers like the great John Williams, John Barry, Jerry Goldsmith, etc. use full orchestras not too different than those used by Beethoven, Mozart, Handel, Bach and so on, yet their compositions are original.
He said that because they were associated with a movie that they're nothing more than very good orchestrated pieces of music. I differ on that because I can listen to a score without associating it with the movie; try doing that by listening to the entire soundtrack to Star Wars and not have one mental image of Luke, Vader, Death Stars and Wookies, or E.T. and so forth.
I'm thinking say 50/60 years in the future or even 100-200 years ahead and the scores are being played. Without seeing the film(s) or even having an association with them will people listen to the soundtracks/scores and have the same effect that Mozart or Beethoven has on us? Something to think about.

 

[harlan]

Have to admit, while it was a good/stirring and topical movie, 'Platoon' ruined Barber's 'Adagio for Strings' for me. It was a long time before I didn't make the association with the movie.

 

[MA-Caver]

Have to admit, while it was a good/stirring and topical movie, 'Platoon' ruined Barber's 'Adagio for Strings' for me. It was a long time before I didn't make the association with the movie.

Well, maybe if you watched "The Elephant Man" starring John Hurt and Anthony Hopkins that might help eliminate the Platoon images. If I recall the Adagio For Strings was used in that movie as well.

 

[harlan]

That movie scarred me! Come to think of it...perhaps the music was part of it.

But as to the perceived dichotomy between popular and classical...

I work at a rather large retail store known for it's cheap goods and low-class customers. I was sorting clothing, and mindlessly humming a tune one night, when from behind a woman's voice said,

'I don't believe it! I'm shopping in XXX...and I'm hearing Dvorak!'

Snob. LOL!

 

[exile]

In India, this would be called "classical" music. In the west, it seems to under "world music" or "ethnic music" or some kind of "not the same as European-influenced serious music." A duet of sitar and tablas doesn't seem to have the same truck as a duet of piano and violin.

Great, informative posts everyone! I only have a few minutes at a time online at the moment, am at my mother's house, she's in hospital recovering from surgery for her (second) broken hip, which at 90 is no joke, etc. etc., and there's this transient internet link that shows up here for a quarter of an hour or so and then vanishes, so I want to get this out—wish I could respond to all your great observations. I just wanted to mention that Menuin did have a jam session with Ravi Shankar back in the 1960s that was considered the ultimate cool session, and other classical Western musicians have done the same kind of thing. It's like that guy I mentioned in an early post was always saying: artists (he was talking writers, but it's the same for all of 'em, I think) need new material, new influences above all else, and they really don't care where it comes from. The creative artist is totally without snobbishness—s/he can't afford that luxury!

 

[MA-Caver]

That movie scarred me! Come to think of it...perhaps the music was part of it.

But as to the perceived dichotomy between popular and classical...

I work at a rather large retail store known for it's cheap goods and low-class customers. I was sorting clothing, and mindlessly humming a tune one night, when from behind a woman's voice said,

'I don't believe it! I'm shopping in XXX...and I'm hearing Dvorak!'

Snob. LOL!

I loved the movie (Elephant Man) tragic yes but beautifully told and the music played a big part of it.

 

[Balrog]

For those who might not have encountered him, the late Michael Hedges was an absolute guitar god. He was classically trained, but his distinctive style was known as "violent acoustic guitar" or "deep tissue gladiator guitar". :lol:

 

[exile]

For those who might not have encountered him, the late Michael Hedges was an absolute guitar god. He was classically trained, but his distinctive style was known as "violent acoustic guitar" or "deep tissue gladiator guitar". :lol:

John Renbourn with weapons, sort of...

 

[Archangel M]

Spanish Guitar

 

[Sukerkin]

That Hedges song was wonderfu, thanks Angel. Puts me in mind of a chap called John Themis except Themis didn't make such use of sequencers/digital delays. I may have to have a dig around and see if I can't find some of Hedges' work.

 

[KenpoTex]

great thread, thanks to everyone for sharing.

here's another good one

John William and Julian Bream

 

[exile]

great thread, thanks to everyone for sharing.

here's another good one

John William and Julian Bream

Whoa, kptx, that vid rules—two great masters from adjacent generations at the top of their game. Bream in particular seems to go on forever... I fully hope, and expect, that he's going to live to be 1,000... great stuff; thanks!

 

[KenpoTex]

Whoa, kptx, that vid rules—two great masters from adjacent generations at the top of their game.

here's another one...starts a little slow but really starts picking up at about the 3-minute mark. enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXGqsyBtq38&feature=related

 

[harlan]

May I post a link off of that one? It's not guitar, but is strings and lovely. And just to tie it into MA...remember to...breathe (at the end).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueWVV_GnRIA&feature=related

 

[jim777]

I'm surprised I missed a guitar thread! Anyway, has anyone ever seen any of Ji Lie's work? She's a young Chinese woman who has a number of old videos floating about from Chinese TV (from when she was about 14 or so) and she shows a lot of poise and beautiful chops for someone so young. She does a lovely version of Andrew York's "Suburst" for anyone not familiar with that particular piece.
Here is "Sunburst"

 

[exile]

She's outstanding... and check out her Bach interpretation here. She has this kind of lapidary style, like an expert jeweler cutting a gemstone into perfects facets...