Cindy Sheehan

[Sapper6]

to avoid causing distraction in the America Supports You Freedom Walk thread, i thought starting a new thread about this Cindy Sheehan stuff would be appropriate.

Originally Posted by Feisty Mouse
Another bit of distracting fluff fanfare, attempting to roll the 9/11 terrorist attacks into the war in Iraq, still trying to make that nonexistent link.

Maybe I'd be more impressed if our President, who has taken another full month off (since when did Presidents get months off?) on his ranch, won't even talk to Cindy Sheehan, an actual mom who lost an actual son in the actual seemingly endless war in Iraq.

Sapper6 Response:

i don't see any "non-existent link" trying to be made here with a freedom walk.

you anti-bush people seem to provide your own "bit of distracting fluff" to discredit everything this administration does, and it's pretty pathetic.

as for Cindy Sheehan, the president already met with her and family at Ft. Lewis, Washington in 2004, and Sheehan, then, had nothing but good things to say about the president. now she's changed her tone some 18 months later. even with pleas from the rest of her family to stop her politically motivated cherade, she persists.


Quote:
PROTESTING SOLDIER MOM CHANGED STORY ON BUSH
Mon Aug 08 2005 10:11:07 ET

The mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who is holding a roadside peace vigil near President Bush's ranch -- has dramatically changed her account about what happened when she met the commander-in-chief last summer!

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., who last year praised Bush for bringing her family the "gift of happiness," took to the nation's TV outlets this weekend to declare how Bush "killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity."

CINDY 2004

THE REPORTER of Vacaville, CA published an account of Cindy Sheehan's visit with the president at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004:

"'I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,' Cindy said after their meeting. 'I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith.'

"The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

"The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

"For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"'That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy said."

CINDY 2005

Sheehan's current comments are a striking departure.

In an interview Sunday on CNN, she claimed Bush "acted like it was party" when she met him.

"It was -- you know, there was a lot of things said. We wanted to use the time for him to know that he killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity. And we wanted him to look at the pictures of Casey.

"He wouldn't look at the pictures of Casey. He didn't even know Casey's name. He came in the room and the very first thing he said is, 'So who are we honoring here?' He didn't even know Casey's name. He didn't want to hear it. He didn't want to hear anything about Casey. He wouldn't even call him 'him' or 'he.' He called him 'your loved one.'

Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject. And he acted like it was a party.

BLITZER: Like a party? I mean...

SHEEHAN: Yes, he came in very jovial, and like we should be happy that he, our son, died for his misguided policies. He didn't even pretend like somebody...




kinda makes you wonder

The following email was received by the DRUDGE REPORT from Casey's aunt and godmother:

Quote:
Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish.

Thanks, Cherie

In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement:

The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.

Sincerely,

Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.

hhmmmm

yeah...let's use Sheehan to discredit a freedom walk

 

[Sapper6]

interesting article here...

Consoling a mother is never easy

http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | Only a particularly heartless churl would argue with a mother's expression of grief over the loss of a son on a distant battlefield, and you won't find criticism of Cindy Sheehan here. She's conducting a vigil at Prairie Chapel Ranch until George W. Bush invites her in to talk about abandoning the war in Iraq.


The president has talked to her once; she says now that he offered nothing to dull the dagger thrust into the most tender places of her heart and that in his attempt to console, he only made things worse. It's not hard to imagine how anything anyone could say would deepen grief and make the hurt more acute. Losing Spc. Casey Sheehan was awful enough, and now the media exploitation of the mother's grief threatens to disrupt the family circle.


Casey's aunt, who says she is speaking for "his grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins," yesterday dispatched this brief letter to the Drudge Report in an attempt to quiet the public controversy: "Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of [his mother] Cindy, we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue [this is the] Sheehan Family Statement: 'The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our president, silently, with prayer and respect.' "


The continuing media exploitation of the mother's grief is another matter. The story is catnip for television news, whose worthies imagine that the ultimate incisive question is a version of "how does it feel?" (Obvious answer: "It feels exactly how you think it would feel, idiot.")


The fortunes of war are, by nature, wild and undisciplined, heaving first this way and then that way, and the dreaded agony of any president is the decision to send young men (and now women) into harm's way. Some presidents have a tender touch; others don't. Ronald Reagan's heartfelt eloquence was never more reassuring than with his tribute to the fallen Marines who were brought home from Lebanon in honored glory. One of the most poignant documents of Lincoln's war was his letter to Mrs. Lydia Bixby of Boston, who he thought had lost five sons in the invasion of the South. "I feel how weak and fruitless must be any words of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming," Lincoln wrote. "But I cannot refrain from tendering to you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours, to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of Freedom."


In the event, Mrs. Bixby, like Cindy Sheehan an embittered critic of war, was thought to have been an improbable Confederate sympathizer, and she destroyed the letter in anger. Its contents would have been lost if the letter had not been reprinted in a Boston newspaper. In fact, she had lost two sons, not five. One son was a deserter, another was honorably discharged, the fifth lost to history. Nevertheless, the poignancy was no less real and stirred the sentiments of a weary constituency. Carl Sandburg, going over the top as usual, said Lincoln had dropped "black roses into the immemorial sea for mystic remembrance and consecration ... Here was a piece of the American Bible." The letter was the inspiration 130 years later for the movie "Saving Private Ryan."


George W.'s gift is his stubborn and determined persistence in not allowing sacrifices made in Afghanistan and Iraq to be squandered by those who have no stomach for the fight now that the fight is rougher than expected. Democracies wage war only with difficulty. Mackubin Thomas Owens, a Vietnam veteran and associate dean of the Naval War College, observes in National Review that the Athenians second-guessed every decision their leaders made in the Peloponnesian War; Lincoln had to contend with Radical Republicans who thought he was a bit of a weenie as the commander in chief.


"But neither the Athenians nor Lincoln had to contend with a smug, detached mainstream media," he writes, and " ... it is hard to conduct military operations when a chorus of eunuchs is describing every action we take as a violation of everything for which America stands, a quagmire in which we are doomed to failure, and a waste of American lives." Certain earlier presidents would agree.

 

[Tgace]

To be blunt. If we called off every war based on greiving relatives of soldiers we would still be a British Colony.

 

[Sapper6]

how very true :asian:

 

[Phoenix44]

The ideas that Cindy Sheehan "dramatically changed her viewpoint" since she first met the president in June 2004 cropped up on the Drudge Report 8/8/05. That assertion is untrue, and the quotes mentioned earlier in this thread were taken out of context. If you would like to read the entire story as it evolved, and look at the full articles containing the quotes, instead of just the quotes in isolation, you can find a review with links to the original articles at:

http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200508100009

My personal opinion is that even if she had changed her view, so what? Did you ever bury your child? I did. It's a very, very long time before the haze begins to thin, and you begin to think more clearly. And so what if her relatives don't agree with her--they're entitled to their opinion, too.

Casey Sheehan gave everything for his country. Cindy Sheehan gave her son to this country. Now, after the stated cause of this war has changed again and again, Cindy wants to ask the president face to face what noble cause her son died for. I think she's entitled to an audience.

 

[Tgace]

So who chooses what families the President should have personal meetings with from now on? Loosing a child now entitles you to a private audience with the president? If I were a family that believed my loved one sacrificed his/her life for a cause he believed in, Id be upset with her.

The fact that I was a former soldier and that Sapper is a current one doesnt give our opinion any more or less weight on matters, nor will it grant us access to the Oval Office. Besides the emotional factor, why should Mrs.Sheehans'?

 

[Sapper6]

The ideas that Cindy Sheehan "dramatically changed her viewpoint" since she first met the president in June 2004 cropped up on the Drudge Report 8/8/05. That assertion is untrue, and the quotes mentioned earlier in this thread were taken out of context. If you would like to read the entire story as it evolved, and look at the full articles containing the quotes, instead of just the quotes in isolation, you can find a review with links to the original articles at:

http://mediamatters.org/items/printable/200508100009

My personal opinion is that even if she had changed her view, so what? Did you ever bury your child? I did. It's a very, very long time before the haze begins to thin, and you begin to think more clearly. And so what if her relatives don't agree with her--they're entitled to their opinion, too.

Casey Sheehan gave everything for his country. Cindy Sheehan gave her son to this country. Now, after the stated cause of this war has changed again and again, Cindy wants to ask the president face to face what noble cause her son died for. I think she's entitled to an audience.

believe what you will. most grief-stricken parents of fallen soldiers will never be afforded the opportunity to meet the commander-in-chief. this lady has already, with the president even helping her to unite other famliy members with them, allowing them to be together in a time of discomfort. now she stages an absurd media frenzy because she failed to ask some specific questions? the media is eating it up. negativity in the media sells, period. i'm sorry for her loss but her actions in the media are a disgrace and unjust.

@ Tgrace

very well said

 

[Phoenix44]

If I were a family that believed my loved one sacrificed his/her life for a cause he believed in

And that's a key point. Cindy Sheehan has no idea what her son sacrificed his life for. I've heard her speak: She said that her son believed we should go to Afghanistan to capture Bin Laden, and in fact he believed he was going to do that. That was a cause he believed in, but Iraq? That's the question.

George W. Bush is not the Pharoah. He works for us, and unfortunately I think that many of our elected officials seem to forget that. We paid for the war, and we deserve to know what and why we paid for it. Cindy Sheehan paid more than some of us. She wants to know what is the purpose of this war.

This President has spent no time going to the funerals of the soldiers--other wartime presidents somehow found the time. He spends time meeting GOP contributors. He's taking a 5 week vacation...he could take an hour and spend it with Cindy.

Do you really think that's too much to ask?

 

[Tgace]

If the President went to a Soldiers funeral it would turn a families pain into a media frenzy and you would then be saying that he was using a soldiers death as a media op to push his war agenda...

 

[Phoenix44]

i'm sorry for her loss but her actions in the media are a disgrace and unjust.

She's peaceful. She's polite. She hasn't used any vulgarity or hurt anyone. She hasn't broken any laws or damaged any property, to my knowledge. She talks to the press when she wants to. She expresses her opinion, respectfully. She's within her rights.

What's disgraceful and what is unjust?

 

[Tgace]

Does every soldier who lost a limb get an audience with the president?

 

[Phoenix44]

If the President went to a Soldiers funeral it would turn a families pain into a media frenzy and you would then be saying that he was using a soldiers death as a media op to push his war agenda...that he was using a soldiers death as a media op to push his war agenda...

President Johnson attended soldiers' funerals. So did President Reagan. Jimmy Carter attended a memorial service for murdered hostages. Even President Lincoln attended soldiers' funerals and visited the war wounded...including Confederate wounded. It wouldn't be something novel for a president to acknowledge the war dead in this manner.

By the way, please don't tell me what I "would then be saying." I'm perfectly willing to say things myself.

 

[Sapper6]

we are at war. people die in war. soldiers are plenty aware of this. sure it's a sad reality. this isn't any different than the thousands of peace vigils that took place during vietnam. sure, it started out peaceful enough. then turning to hippie rallies, pot-head orgies, unorganized cluster ****s.

oh, there taking donations too, to fund the exploits. they've already gotten the attention of numerous filmmakers and authors who want to "share her story" with public.

hhmmm oh, no money to be made here.

almost forgot, they've also enlisted the "hunger strikers for hire" known as Code Pink to hunger strike for them until GW clears his schedule. now that's intelligent.

 

[Tgace]

President Johnson attended soldiers' funerals. So did President Reagan. Jimmy Carter attended a memorial service for murdered hostages. Even President Lincoln attended soldiers' funerals and visited the war wounded...including Confederate wounded. It wouldn't be something novel for a president to acknowledge the war dead in this manner.

By the way, please don't tell me what I "would then be saying." I'm perfectly willing to say things myself.

Really..refrences?

Chew on this for a while...

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=271680

 

[Tgace]

Memorial services are common. Individual funerals are not.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/20050701_1933.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/04/20030411-13.html
http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/000714.html

P.P.S.: The soldier sitting closest to me clearly liked Bush, perhaps because he had just seen the president, in person, for the third time. Apparently, Bush pays regular visits to wounded soldiers at Walter Reed. Did you know that? I didn't. Admittedly, it's easier to visit the wounded than to go to funerals, which Bush has been accused of not doing enough of. Still ...

 

[Sapper6]

the LINK to the original article citing when Mrs. Sheehan first met with the president. read it.

180 degree turn, ya think :idunno:

Cindy Sheehan is a puppet for michael moore and every other anti-bush faction out there. is she smart enough to realize this? apparently not.

 

[Sapper6]

excerpt from blogsforbush. i couldn't agree more :asian:

Cindy Sheehan has become, perhaps unwitting, a tool of the anti-war left, a puppet of MoveOn.org. The actual purpose of this vigil is, in the mind of Sheehan, to get President Bush to "tell the truth" about Iraq. The "truth" in her mind now is the same version of MoveOn.Org: that President Bush deliberately misled us into liberating Iraq and thus Ms. Sheehan's son died in vain for a false cause.

Those of us who haven't been in Ms. Sheehan's shoes can't possibly understand the grief of a mother who has lost a child - sorrow can all so easily turn into anger and resentment over those who had a hand in setting the situation that resulted in the lost life even when the facts show that everyone has acted honorably.

Still, I cannot help but be dismayed that the mother of a man who volunteered to fight should allow herself to become the tool of people who care not a bit about her dead son, but are very keen to use his death as a means of mere political gamesmanship. I wonder, also, if Ms. Sheehan believes that her son - whose comrades are likely still in uniform and fighting the enemy - would wish her to become a tool of enemy propaganda? They still have a job to do, and supporting the same group put out a television ad last year depicting holding his rifle overhead in a posture suggesting surrender doesn't seem to me to be the best way to support our troops or to honor your son's life and sacrifice for our country.

Can she really be happy to be party to an effort which is sure to be lapped up like manna from heaven by those who killed her son, and wish to kill far more in the future? Does she expect to find closure by convincing herself her son's death was for nothing?

I hope that Ms. Sheehan will find peace - I hope that one day her grief will abate and things will become clearer in her mind. I am sad that her son got killed - many sons and daughters have been killed since this war began, but at least we can take note of the good they did before they died. We can stand amazed at their heroism and devotion. And we can be comforted by the fact that while our volunteer best and bravest have been fighting far from home, no American has been slaughtered by terrorists here in the United States. I hope that one day, Ms. Sheehan will see this.

the president's statement to the vigil and the things Cindy Sheehan is voicing:

Part of my duty as the President is to meet with those who've lost a loved one. And so, you know, listen, I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan. She feels strongly about her -- about her position. And I am -- she has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America. She has a right to her position. And I've thought long and hard about her position. I've heard her position from others, which is, get out of Iraq now. And it would be -- it would be a mistake for the security of this country and the ability to lay the foundations for peace in the long-run, if we were to do so. But no, Steve, I've met with a lot of families, and I have done my best to bring comfort to the families and honor to the loved one, and get different opinions when you meet with moms and dads and sons and daughters and wives and husbands of those who have fallen. One opinion I've come away with universally is that, you know, we should do everything we can to honor the fallen. And one way to honor the fallen is to lay the foundation for peace.

Cindy Sheehan's reply:

"The President says he feels compassion for me, but the best way to show that compassion is by meeting with me and the other mothers and families who are here. Our sons made the ultimate sacrifice and we want answers. All we're asking is that he sacrifice an hour out of his five-week vacation to talk to us, before the next mother loses her son in Iraq. He says he is spreading peace. How can you spread peace by killing people?”

hhmmm, she's already been afforded that opportunity once. that's once more than hundreds of others.

He says he is spreading peace. How can you spread peace by killing people?

it's called war, ma'am.

so who's the puppetmaster...?

 

[Tgace]

http://hnn.us/articles/1784.html

Have presidents in the past attended the funerals of soldiers who died in combat? Have they taken note of the deaths of U.S. soldiers? The record is mixed, as can be seen below. It would appear that few presidents have ever actually attended military funerals, though many used the bully pulpit to draw attention to lives lost in the service of their country.

Most of the Presidents who did attend individual funerals actually knew the person in some way.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, I'm not sure what about that google page I'm supposed to be "chewing on," but here are a few references on presidents attending funeral and memorial services:

Lincoln:
Davis KC. Don't know much about the civil war. New York: Harper Collins, 1996.

Clinton: US Department of State: http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive_Index/Clinton_Vows_No_Safe_Harbor_for_USS_Cole_Attackers.html

Reagan: Arlington National Cemetery
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/terror.htm

http://hnn.us/articles/printfriendly/1784.html

 

[Tgace]

Well, I'm not sure what about that google page I'm supposed to be "chewing on,"

The answer. You must not be familiar with Google Research services.

The thrust of your current question is whether there is a difference
between what President Bush is doing regarding honoring those killed
in action and his four predecessors – Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush
Sr. and Clinton. I’ve spent many hours researching your question and
I’ve come to the conclusion that President George W. Bush’s behavior
regarding honoring the military services (including those killed in
action) is not significantly different than that of prior presidents.