Chungul Sang Soo Makee Questions

[Lynne]

I'm not taking any offense gentleman and ladies. I understand your concern (I know what you are wondering and why) and I realize my school's philosophy is different from some others.

We definitely have structure. No, I cannot choose my own forms, Field. We have a specified curriciculum for each week and certain forms are taught at certain gup levels. As far as I know, we follow the tradition of Soo Bahk Do.

The Chil-Sung forms are only taught at lower gup levels if one is in Black Belt Club. BBC is not a requirement to get a black belt by the way. It doesn't cost more either. It is a contract though extending one's contract to a total of four years.

Certification? Ohhh. I don't know. Our instructors are anywhere from Cho Dan to some that will be promoted to 4th Dan (Master) soon. Certification? Gee, I don't know.

I've been at 8th gup for almost 4 weeks and realize we have learned/started to learn a lot of material:

-Pyong Ahn Cho Dan
-double side kick
-hook kick
-hadon soo do makee
-chun dan soo do makee
-hook kick cotton bahl roundhouse kick (cotton bahl means double kick - you don't put the foot down)
-ahp chagi cotton bahl roundhouse kick
-side block with side punch combination
-sparring techniques
-other hand and other kick combinations I can't recall
-five one-step sparring combinations
-two same side wrist grip techniques (well, we almost did these - were supposed to)

I realize that may be a lot for four weeks. Do you think so? I think the only other kick I have to learn for 7th gup is the inside/outside kick. There are a few tricky combinations but I already know how to do them - I think I just have to add aiming with the opposite arm that I punch with. I already add aiming to my forms so it shouldn't be hard

If I pass both spotlights, I won't actually test until the end of November which should be plenty of time to get the basic techniques down.

After four weeks, I wouldn't expect a student to be exactly a whiz at all of this material, would you? I "sort of" learned the hook kick the other night. The instructor asked us to do it and I raised my hand saying I hadn't learned it yet. OK, he didn't take the time to explain the mechanics of the kick. He whipped his leg around to demonstrate it. Now, at white belt level, they would have said, "This is a four-part kick. First we raise our knee.....one." In fact, I thought the hook kick was used to hook someone with the heel instead of slapping them with the bottom of the foot. Once my 6th gup partner told me that the kick is used to slap someone with the bottom of the foot, I was able to hook correctly instead of doing a a hooking motion with the heel! For those who instruct, don't you think I made a reasonable assumption? I wasn't looking for a slap, I was looking for a hook and that's what I thought I saw.

It's this kind of stuff that drives me crazy lately. But then I think, "They are just introducing the material to me and they will refine it as we go." Then, I think, "I have a spotlight tonight. What if my mechanics are crappy? What will Master R think?"

I suppose Master R will expect a much better performance come the second spotlight! and especially at test time.

I have doboks to iron as want to look nice for the spotlight. I will let everyone know how it goes. I may be nervous for nothing. If I get tested on all the above material, well I better be nervous!

 

[Tez3]

Lynne, I have to add my voice to the rest, it's really worrying. It's unfair on you as you are paying and you have so much enthuisasm and keenness to learn you deserve to be taught by instructors who can do their job.

Perhaps it would help if some of us posted up a typical class for you to get an idea of why we are concerned? It's been a while since I trained in a class but the classes I have been in whatever the style, (I've been in Wado Ryu, TKD and TSD) have always been much the same.

After a warm up the class usually goes into lines for basics, with the instructor demonstrating first then taking the class through the techniques one by one with the instructor correcting each student. The basics are the blocks, high, low, in and out. Punches are front punch, reverse punch,backfist. Kicks would be front kick, roundhouse and side kick. Stances, front and back stance at the very least. Different styles have different names for these of course and do them slightly differently but I think that's the very basic things you should know by your first grading. Good basics are the grounding on which everything is based I think. The first kata/hyung they learn contains those basics, Pinan Nidan in Wado, Kee Cho Hyung Il Bo in TSD and I believe 13 Steps in TKD.

Usually next is that we'd split into two groups, (I've never been in a class that wasn't fine for two black belt instructors to manage comfortably) to do kata. From the first lesson we'd be taught the first kata even though it wasn't necessary for the first grading, our instructors in Wado and TKD both reckoned we should always know one kata ahead of what we needed for grading.We'd also have learned the moves used in the kata before learning it. Basics and kata go hand in hand, complimenting each other.

The next thing would be either sparring or self defence for everyone. All the instructors I've had put new people into spar, always with a senior student, it's felt important to get them used to being padded up and to feel confident right from the start that they weren't there to be beaten up. They need to walk away from the class thinking that was good I'm not being swamped and I can learn this.

The instructors I've had were always the ones teaching and correcting you, you could ask senior belts for help but never really needed to as the instructors were always there to help. We did a lot of linework to get the techniques right, loads of repetition! The katas/hyungs were taken to pieces, we did them in reverse and with our eyes closed. After line work we'd quite often do pad work to get the power into the strikes. In sparring the instructors would spar with us all what ever stage we were at.

All the classes I've been in went on for two hours, I've never trained for less. This gives you a lot of time on each part of the lesson. I'm a slow learner who needs to repeat things until they are stuck in my head so this suited me down to the ground. People wouldn't be put into a grading until the instructor was confident they knew what they needed to, after all it reflects on them too.

This is my experience of classes, I still teach to that pattern as I think it works. If others could post up what they do we should be able to get a comparision hopefully.

 

[Tez3]

For 7th Gup grading this is our requiremenets

ALL PREVIOUS GRADING REQUIREMENTS FOR TSD

HAMMER FIST

LOW KNIFE HAND BLOCK

UPPERCUT

DOUBLE MIDDLE FIST BLOCK

SIDE KICK

MIDDLE KNIFE HAND BLOCK

SPEAR HAND STRIKE

REVERSE INSIDE TO OUT BLOCK

FRONT SNAP KICK

SAM SOO SIK [5] TECHNIQUES

PYUNG AHN CHO DAN & PYUNG AHN YI DAN


the previous requirements are -

BASIC WARM UPS

SALUTE TO THE SUN

FITNESS LEVEL

HORSE STANCE

MIDDLE PUNCHES

FRONT STANCE & BACK STANCE

FRONT PUNCH HIGH

LOW BLOCK & HIGH BLOCK

INSIDE TO OUT BLOCK

SIDE PUNCH

EYE FOCUS & KI HAP

SAM SOO SIK [1] TECHNIQUE

GI-CHO-HYUNGS-IL, YI & SAM

 

[MBuzzy]

No problem, Tez, great idea! Might make a good thread too - if someone has the power to split these off!

A typical class consists of:

First, stretching/warm up. ALWAYS, usually about 10 minutes or so.
Following that, most classes begin with basics. Line up and march the floor with either basic techniques or combination techniques directly from the testing curriculum.
Following that, we work on the next thing in the rotation. Basically we rotate through forms, Ho Sin Sul, and Ill Soo Sik. We will take as many classes as necessary to get through ALL forms for all ranks. Then as many classes as necessary to work through ALL of the Ill Soo Sik, then the same for Ho Sin Sul (although we usually stick to the colored belt curriculum). Last week's classes were stick defense, this week's are knife defense.

Either way, no matter what we are doing, the instructor, i.e. the Dojang owner, and head instructor demonstrates the technique and each one of us does it while we are corrected and watched by the instructor. It is an open forum during which questions are welcomed and shared with the entire class.

For forms, we work every form at least 2 or 3 times and each student gets instruction and correction. Once we get away from the forms that lower belts know, they will either observe or work with the senior most belt on their own forms to the side.

In addition, following every class, the instructor and senior belts stick around to answer any questions and work individually with anyone who had any problems during class.

No one is tested until they know all material front and back, inside and out. Most of the test results are known before the test....because if they weren't ready, they wouldn't be testing. As we get closer to tests, we will work on just test material for those who are testing...basically the week or two before a test, every class is devoted to those who are testing.

Sparring is every Friday night.

 

[jks9199]

Just to add to the "class format discussion", I teach pretty much how I was taught. That means lots of repitition...

Generally, we start with about 15 to 20 minutes of warm up calisthenics and stretching. Several of the exercises we use are designed/intended also as practice for important skills... though we don't always tell students that.

After warmups, we frequently run through the basic drills (stances, blocking, punching, etc.). Some classes, we'll work on elements solely from those drills. Other classes, we'll introduce something new. Either way, I often demonstrate what I want, then drill the class in it, correcting them as we go. Sometimes, I'll correct an individual, other times the whole class, depending on the issue. (One person using the wrong stance, say... Individual problem. Lots of people using the wrong stance... class problem.) I often have them work in pairs or do some other form of partner exercises, as well.

If we're working forms... If I'm teaching a form, I demonstrate, walk them through, watch them, and repeat as needed. I generally break forms into sets; in some cases, a good night's progress is one set. In other cases, I may teach most of a form in one night. Depends on the student... Generally, to reach "competition level" with a form takes several months of work. In and out of class.

I also often teach things at different levels to different students. I'll "reteach" or refine something as a student's knowledge and skill advances.

And that, Lynne, is the problem I'm seeing from your posts. You aren't getting that correction on any regular and consistent basis. I don't know why. Maybe you are, and it's just not coming through. But there's a lot more to teaching than simply demonstrating and drilling.

 

[cdunn]

For us, a typical class starts with a 'mere' 5 minutes of class stretching. You are expected to be there 15-20 minutes early to start loosening up - White belts are taught how to stretch and the individual techniques in the Order of Basics, as well as the three basic kicks in private lessons before they join class for the first time.

After stretching, it's a few minutes of pahl put kee (Straddle punches), before breaking out the order of basics and kicking exercises. Every so often, he'll sit the lowest rank set down and ramp up the difficulty. If he catches you unable to do a technique, he'll correct you right there in the line. After about 10-20 minutes of basics, it's either time for the focused exercise of the day - Tonight was kick defenses - followed by forms, or straight up time for forms, if basics were long.

Forms are generally done by rank-set - White / Yellow, Orange, Green, Red, Midnight, usually the two testing hyung, once his count, once follow-the-senior's-unsung-count, aka, 'our count'. Corrections get handed out at the end of each run through the form, mid-form if we screw it up enough.

After forms, it's one-steps, which are generally paired senior-junior, with the senior teaching the junior one on one while the instructor wanders around and teaches everyone as needed.

Couple rounds of no or light contact sparring ends the night. It makes me happy.



I think... or at least hope... that there is some kind of miscommunication here. I obviously do not study at the same dojang as Lynne, but I do get to compete against a couple guys from that dojang a couple times a year in the tournaments. They are almost always top notch. Something is going right in that school somewhere.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

I agree with MBuzzy, someone should split these class format descriptions off into another thread. I'm only going to post this here so that they're all together.

So here's your standard class at my dojang:

Class starts with everybody lining up according to rank. There are usually three in a row, but if there are only four people at class, it's usually rows of two. If there are more than maybe 15 in class, it's usually rows of 4. After everybody is lined up, we stand at attention (Cha ryut!), salute the flags (Kuk gi bay ray!), return to attention (Ba ro!), and either sit down (Anju!) or stay standing for meditation (Muk nyum!).

After meditation, we stand again (Ba ro!) and bow to the instructor (Face this way, bow Kyung Ret! Tang Soo!) and go into choon bee jaseh. Then, if I may take the voice of the instructor, it goes:

"Loosen out your wrists, elbows, and shoulders."
"Hands on your belt, loosen out your neck."
"Feet shoulder width apart, side bend exercises, right side first (two times each side" -- about 30 counts
"Feet wider apart, front to back exercises" -- again, about 30-40 counts
"Bend over at the waist, 25 waist twists each side, your own count. Begin"
"Jump up, hands on your knees, loosen out your knees and ankles."
"Ba ro! Fifty jumping-jacks. Begin!"
"Choon bee! Right leg back, chungul jaseh!"
"Ahp podol ri gi! Hana, tul, set, net..." (assume the count goes out to ten or twenty)
"Bal kyo deh! Hana, tul, set, net..."
"Bal kyo deh! Ahneso pakero chagi! Hana, tul, set, net..."
"Bal kyo deh! Hana, tul, set, net..."
"Bal kyo deh! Left hand out, pakeso ahnero chagi! Don't drop your hand! Hana, tul, set, net..."
"Bal kyo deh! Hana, tul, set, net..."
"Ba ro! And shio! (Ko map sum ni da, Tang Soo!) Turn around, fix your doboks."
(One, two, three) "Turn around fast!"

Here we can either go over to the kicking bar for more stretching/side kick practice, or we can go on to this:

"Choon bee! Left hand, left foot Pal po ki! (about 10 of those) Two punches! (Tang Soo! Tang Soo! Tang Soo!...and so on for about 10 more) Three punches, low, middle, high! (Tang Soo Do! Tang Soo Do! Tang Soo Do! and so on for about 10 more) And Ba ro!"

Here's where we do basics, up and down the room. Usually, green belts and down do ha dan mahk kee, choong dan kong kyuk, sang dan mahk kee, ahneso pakero mahk kee, weng jin kong kyuk, and maybe ha dan / choong dan soo do mahk kee and hugul yup mahk kee, while red belts and up do the red belt basic combinations:
(1) Ha dan mahk ko, tora so choong dan kong kyuk, sang dan mahk kee
(2) Choong dan kong kyuk, tora so choong dan kong kyuk, ahneso pakero mahk kee
(3) Weng jin kong kyuk, hugul yup mahk ko, chungul ha dan ssang soo mahk kee
(4) Chungul choong dan ssang soo mahk ko, tora so choong dan kong kyuk, choong dan soo do mahk kee
(5) Ha dan soo do mahk ko, tora so choong dan kwon soo kong kyuk, pakeso ahnero sang dan soo do kong kyuk
(6) Pakeso ahnero mahk ko, tora so pakeso ahnero mahk ko, hugul choong dan ssang soo mahk kee
(7) Yuk soo (defense and punch), choong dan soo do mahk ko, sang dan mahk kee.

Then we do foot basics. Again, green belts and down usually only do basic kicks, while the red belts and up do the combinations:

(1) Yup chago, sang dan mahk ko, tora so choong dan kong kyuk, ha dan soo do mahk kee
(2) Ahp chago, dul ryo chago, dwi chagi
(3) Dul ryo yup chago, dwi chago, dul ryo chagi
(4) Dul ryo chago, e dan ahp chago, dwi chagi
(5) Ahp chago, e dan yup chago, dwe chagi

Then it's "Ba ro, Shio (Ko map sum ni da, Tang Soo!), turn around and fix your do boks."

Next we usually do forms. Depending on the class makeup and the instructor's mood, we may do just our highest forms, several times over, a few lower forms and then our highest forms, or even all the forms from gicho hyung sam bu through our highest forms. Part of the pre-tests and test for cho dan is doing all the pyung ahn hyung in sequence, with no choon bee in between forms. If it's close to testing time and there are a lot of pretesters or testers for cho dan, it's likely we'll do that. Lately, at the times I take class at least half of the students are cho dan or above (there are maybe 5 or so sam dans, as many ee dans, and a crowd of cho dans at my dojang), so quite often it's jinte, jinte, and more jinte for me.

Depending on the class, we may also each line up facing a partner for il soo sik or ho sin sul. Or we may be doing some sparring drills or other partner drills. Sometimes, we'll get out the big body-sized pads and do some kicking. Or we may be set against the training bags (two water-filled stand-up ones and one 100-lb hanging one) for more drills. All depends on what the instructor wants to do.

The last five or ten minutes of class are when we're all tired, so that's when we line up again and work on our in neh. Thirty or more situps/crunches of various types, then twenty knuckle pushups, maybe some six-inch drills (lying on back, legs held up six inches off the ground), and quite possibly several other endurance drills. Then we stand up and do some more, either in the form of six-counts, 30 seconds continuous pal po ki punching, one-leg hop-up kicks, or (especially for ee dans and up) two-leg hop-up kicks. Maybe some squats and jumps too, depending on the instructor's mood. Finally, when the instructor's done torturing us, it's "Ba ro! Cha ryut! Kuk gi bay ray! Ba ro! Muk nyum! (either seated or standing) Ba ro! Face this way, bow kyung ret! Face sam dans, sam dan dol kyung ret! (Ko map sum ni da, Tang Soo!) Face ee dans, ee dan dol kyung ret! (Ko map sum ni da, Tang Soo!)" Face cho dans, cho dan dol kyung ret! (Ko map sum ni da, Tang Soo!) Have a good _______ night, Tang Soo!" And then I leave thoroughly exhausted.

Of course it's slightly different on the not-all-that-uncommon occasion that I'm the only one in class. Then my SBN can just focus on me the whole time. Those are fun classes, let me tell you.

Also note that all of this is variable. Sometimes all of us just do basic techniques instead of combinations. Sometimes we only do low forms. Quite often, the class is split into groups, with various seniors taking charge of the lower belts while the SBN leads the rest of the class (aka "Mr. Jonathan, come here fast! Go over forms with them until they drop!"). It all depends on the makeup of the class and on what the instructor wants to focus that particular class.

Tang Soo!

 

[Makalakumu]

This move is indicating a double strike or block strike combination. A lot of it depends on the form that it is in. In chil sung ee lo, the move is followed up with a side punch in horse stance. This move can lock an arm up or it can be turned into sukui nage.

 

[Makalakumu]

Wow, I need to read the rest of the thread. Good side topic. My class format is generally as follows...

I have an approach that I use when I deliver a lesson, any lesson, be it in my science classroom or in my dojang. It's called the Five E's and this approach pretty consistently leads to effective lessons...which IMHO is the definition of a great class.

Now, before I go on, I'd like to take a little time to define an effective lesson. IMO, an effective lesson takes place when the following criteria are met. The teacher has clear, overarching, and enduring objectives that are known by the students. The curriculum is comprehensive and philosophically sound so that it leads a student to the teacher's enduring objectives. Everything in the lesson is connected to the teacher's overarching goals so that any evaluation will determine progression towards those goals.

With that being said, the five steps of the Five E's are specifically designed to fit into this model. The steps are as follows...

1. Engage - a student must somehow be engaged by the teacher's material or it isn't going to grab their attention and they won't perform at their best. Presenting students with problems or challenges is a good way to engage them.

2. Explore - this is the stage where the instructor facilitates the student's exploration of the material that engaged them. Students use this time to examine their own background knowledge.

3. Explain - during this stage, the instructor explains the nuances whatever is being learned and may demonstrate ways that slight alter or greatly alter the student's background knowledge.

4. Elaborate - this is an important step where students are given time to take what was presented before and use it in a variety of situations. This is done in order to test the concept in various ways and explore its depth. It also gives the students' the chance to be creative with application.

5. Evaluate - the last state is where the instructor uses whatever methods or instruments needed in order to measure how much the student has learned. Methods of evaluation can be simple or complex, but they should always be measuring against the metric of the instructors overarching and enduring goals.

Lastly, this approach is not designed with a time limit in mind. It can take as little as five minutes or it could last the entire class period depending how the instructor designs it. Often, each individual student will experience this at least once during the time they are in class. The bottom line is that I have found that this approach enhances both the intellectual and kinesthetic understanding of the material presented.

 

[Lynne]

For us, a typical class starts with a 'mere' 5 minutes of class stretching. You are expected to be there 15-20 minutes early to start loosening up - White belts are taught how to stretch and the individual techniques in the Order of Basics, as well as the three basic kicks in private lessons before they join class for the first time.

After stretching, it's a few minutes of pahl put kee (Straddle punches), before breaking out the order of basics and kicking exercises. Every so often, he'll sit the lowest rank set down and ramp up the difficulty. If he catches you unable to do a technique, he'll correct you right there in the line. After about 10-20 minutes of basics, it's either time for the focused exercise of the day - Tonight was kick defenses - followed by forms, or straight up time for forms, if basics were long.

Forms are generally done by rank-set - White / Yellow, Orange, Green, Red, Midnight, usually the two testing hyung, once his count, once follow-the-senior's-unsung-count, aka, 'our count'. Corrections get handed out at the end of each run through the form, mid-form if we screw it up enough.

After forms, it's one-steps, which are generally paired senior-junior, with the senior teaching the junior one on one while the instructor wanders around and teaches everyone as needed.

Couple rounds of no or light contact sparring ends the night. It makes me happy.



I think... or at least hope... that there is some kind of miscommunication here. I obviously do not study at the same dojang as Lynne, but I do get to compete against a couple guys from that dojang a couple times a year in the tournaments. They are almost always top notch. Something is going right in that school somewhere.

It's true that our school does very well in tournaments. In fact, we have world champions in sparring.

Thanks everyone for responding. It's about 1:00 am and I'm going to go through all the recent posts later today. I'm curious about your training approach and appreciate the input.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Just to add to the "class format discussion", I teach pretty much how I was taught. That means lots of repitition...

Generally, we start with about 15 to 20 minutes of warm up calisthenics and stretching. Several of the exercises we use are designed/intended also as practice for important skills... though we don't always tell students that.

After warmups, we frequently run through the basic drills (stances, blocking, punching, etc.). Some classes, we'll work on elements solely from those drills. Other classes, we'll introduce something new. Either way, I often demonstrate what I want, then drill the class in it, correcting them as we go. Sometimes, I'll correct an individual, other times the whole class, depending on the issue. (One person using the wrong stance, say... Individual problem. Lots of people using the wrong stance... class problem.) I often have them work in pairs or do some other form of partner exercises, as well.

If we're working forms... If I'm teaching a form, I demonstrate, walk them through, watch them, and repeat as needed. I generally break forms into sets; in some cases, a good night's progress is one set. In other cases, I may teach most of a form in one night. Depends on the student... Generally, to reach "competition level" with a form takes several months of work. In and out of class.

I also often teach things at different levels to different students. I'll "reteach" or refine something as a student's knowledge and skill advances.

And that, Lynne, is the problem I'm seeing from your posts. You aren't getting that correction on any regular and consistent basis. I don't know why. Maybe you are, and it's just not coming through. But there's a lot more to teaching than simply demonstrating and drilling.

Thats the way we do it.

 

[Lynne]

This move is indicating a double strike or block strike combination. A lot of it depends on the form that it is in. In chil sung ee lo, the move is followed up with a side punch in horse stance. This move can lock an arm up or it can be turned into sukui nage.

Thank you for the information. The sukui nage is a drop I'll be doing soon in one-step sparring. That's a nasty drop.

 

[Lynne]

You all inquired about how our classes are structured. Truly, it depends on whether I attend evening or morning classes. Generally, I attend evening classes and Saturday morning classes.

Most classes are one hour long; two of the evening classes are 45 minutes as is the Saturday class. Saturday classes are more about conditioning and we may do 20 - 30 minutes of running, wallkicks, pushups, crunches, leg raises, and squat thrusts. Then, we move on to class material for 15-25 minutes. It can be anything from forms to combinations. There have been classes where we've done pushups and conditioning work for the entire 45 minutes - like hundreds of pushups, hundreds of crunches. I don't have a problem with that by the way. I need the conditioning. I see the value in conditioning. Every martial artist needs continuous conditioning.

Morning classes are taught by Master R and he is able to keep an eye on and correct a room full of 20+ people whether we are doing forms, combinations, shoulder rolls, kicks, or punches and so on. We always begin with a warmup of about 10-20 minutes. The curriculum changes from week-to-week. He will constantly move from person-to-person correcting them and showing them the mechanics of a move. When he teaches a combination or a move, he explains to the entire class why we are doing the move (it's application) and he demonstrates the mechanics of the move, all the while emphasizing core power and so on to ensure that we do the move correctly and with focus and power. I will say I believe he can do more than what four instructors can do, lol. Many years of experience and teaching. I'm certain he has eyes in the back of his head.

During evening classes, we generally have about 4 instructors on the floor. The curriculum varies from week-to-week as well. We may do punching drills with one instructor, then rotate to another instructor for forms, then to another instructor for combinations. One week of the month we do sparring at the end of class for 15 minutes. We have also have sparring classes separate from regular class. Sparring classes are 45 minutes long and consist of one or two drills and sparring with partners. Instructors circle around giving pointers and instruction. In addition, higher belts teach the lower belts how to spar when sparring with them.

Here is an example of what we might do in class:

-Warmup for about 10 minutes.
-Entire class, including black belts, clock kick for 10 minutes, both legs.
-Hold horse stance for 4-6 minutes.
-Black belts go to a corner and work with their instructor rest of the evening for forms, etc.

There will usually be one instructor at each station for the following:

-Red and green belts go to their corner and work on forms.
-Orange and a few green belts work on forms - could be 8 people in this group, doing four different forms depending upon gup level.
-Yellow and white belts work on their forms.

After 10 - 15 minutes, rotate and move to next station with one instructor.

-Work on combinations.

The following week, we might do wallkicks for 10 -15 minutes, then forms, then punching drills or kicking drills, then sparring.

No, wrist grips (self-defense) and one-step sparring are not worked on in every class. I thought you all might be wondering about that.

Our classes are one hour long, and for certain, we pack a lot into one hour. It's a very busy one hour but we cannot cover all aspects of the art in one hour.

Students help one another. Higher belts are always helping me in class, correcting me and giving me pointers. I also enjoy helping the lower belts when I am able to. This is what our Sa Ba Nim wants.

This may be a misnomer, but I would call our instruction incremental learning such as used in Saxon Math. You review older concepts and introduce a new concept. The next day, you review the older concepts, including the previous new concept and add one. Each time you practice the concepts they became easier. You refine and build.

In four weeks, I have learned almost everything I need for my 7th gup test except for the back kick. We have been introduced to a lot of material in four weeks! Now, it's time to refine that material.

Now, that I realize what the spotlights are for, I'm more comfortable and less fearful about failing/not learning my material. I know that Master R will personally be reviewing my progress. Sure, I could fail a spotlight but that would probably only happen if I haven't been in class. Believe me, if I'm asked to do something that I have no clue about, I will be the first to raise my hand and say, "Sir, I haven't learned X yet." Also, I imagine it's a two-way street. How I do in the spotlight is, to a large degree, a reflection on the instructors.

Sure, I would love it if our classes were 1-1/2 - 2 hours long. They aren't and this is one of the reasons I go three times a week. I don't think I could learn the material going just once or even 2X a week. Some people probably can.

The Dan's have longer classes of course, 3-1/2 hours certain mornings of the week. They practice weapons and do Olympic training (I think- don't quote me on that). Then, they go to regular morning class. I know there are Il Gup classes as well.

We may do things differently, but our school does excel in sparring, weapons, and forms competitions in the states and abroad. We are known to be worthwhile competitors (I don't want to go on too much lest I sound like Bill Duff and Jason Chambers from Human Weapon - oh, gee!).

I'd like to reiterate that I am very happy at my school and plan on training there for a long time. I have the utmost respect for my Sa Ba Nim and the instructors.

 

[Lynne]

As far as the Chil-Sung forms, I do not believe we would be learning them if it weren't possible for us to do well. One does have to be motivated to practice though. Generally, the Chil-Sung forms during BBC are learned over several weeks (BBC is held one week a month). Also, Master R knows exactly what we are capable of and what degree of motivation we have.

Most of my classmates place in competition when they do the Chil-Sung forms. I know, however, that they have been doing them longer than I. That doesn't mean I can't do well with practice and motivation.

I am doing well with the Chil-Sung form so far and will get a critique before the competition.

I could ask a 100 questions about the form because I try to think about everything/internalize things. I might get the answers I desire but that form, like any other form, gets better through years and years of practice.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

Higher belts are always helping me in class, correcting me and giving me pointers. I also enjoy helping the lower belts when I am able to. This is what our Sa Ba Nim wants.

My final two points regarding this.

1) How do you know they have it right?

2) You are a lower belt and given the amount you have self taught, you shouldnt be teaching anyone.

Again, I'm not being critical of you, but this is how problems are spread.

 

[jks9199]

My final two points regarding this.

1) How do you know they have it right?

2) You are a lower belt and given the amount you have self taught, you shouldnt be teaching anyone.

Again, I'm not being critical of you, but this is how problems are spread.

I have to agree.

I may designate a green belt (usually about 2 years of training) or even, rarely, an advanced white belt to introduce or do the basic instruction of fundamentals like the stance drill or blocking or punching drills. But I'm keeping a close eye on them, and I am reviewing and correcting the material with them.

I don't -- and I'd have a major problem with it -- expect students to teach each other without being assigned. Many years back, when I was a white belt, I began learning a new form. One of my roommates at the time was a guy who'd started training at the same time I had. For some reason, he'd missed class around the time that I started that form. I started to "teach" him the form, as I was learning it. And my seniors and my instructor jumped all over me when they learned that I'd done so! And rightly so! Because, at that point, all I knew were the most basic directions of the form. I didn't know it yet -- and I didn't know whether HE had the appropriate level of basic skills for it yet.

One of my greatest annoyances at seminars and clinics is when a "student" begins "teaching" what the instructor is sharing, without direction. Because, all too often, they've got it wrong! I've seen people so intent on "teaching" what they learned somewhere else that they didn't realize that they had missed some important difference in how it's being taught today.

 

[Lynne]

My final two points regarding this.

1) How do you know they have it right?

2) You are a lower belt and given the amount you have self taught, you shouldnt be teaching anyone.

Again, I'm not being critical of you, but this is how problems are spread.

Hi Field,

I appreciate the concern. And I recall Kacey saying that students are not allowed to teach one another in her school. Yes, indeed, it could be a case of the blind leading the blind, leading to bad habits and a total mess.

All lower rank material is drilled at upper ranks. A higher gup will fail if h/she doesn't know their lower belt material. Every gup test, we are tested on ALL lower material. When I test for 7th gup, I must know my lower belt material or I will fail. That doesn't mean people don't forget or aren't paying attention in class. The material has to be practiced. I practice the wrist grips and one-steps at home, including doing them on opposite sides of the body. I practice them at least 3X a week and I often visualize them before I go to bed.

In a one-step sparring/wrist grip practice, we will have maybe 5 or 6 pairs of people. Different pairs will be working on different sets. The instructor will tell one pair to practice their set and instruct another pair in their new set. If I know the grip/one-step and my partner doesn't, I will tell him, "Step left, block right, grab the wrist, roundhouse kick to the solar plexus, etc." We help one another out that way. Absolutely, it is the instructor's job to come over and make sure we are executing the moves correctly. The instructor does come over and review how we're progressing.

 

[Lynne]

I have to agree.

I may designate a green belt (usually about 2 years of training) or even, rarely, an advanced white belt to introduce or do the basic instruction of fundamentals like the stance drill or blocking or punching drills. But I'm keeping a close eye on them, and I am reviewing and correcting the material with them.

I don't -- and I'd have a major problem with it -- expect students to teach each other without being assigned. Many years back, when I was a white belt, I began learning a new form. One of my roommates at the time was a guy who'd started training at the same time I had. For some reason, he'd missed class around the time that I started that form. I started to "teach" him the form, as I was learning it. And my seniors and my instructor jumped all over me when they learned that I'd done so! And rightly so! Because, at that point, all I knew were the most basic directions of the form. I didn't know it yet -- and I didn't know whether HE had the appropriate level of basic skills for it yet.

One of my greatest annoyances at seminars and clinics is when a "student" begins "teaching" what the instructor is sharing, without direction. Because, all too often, they've got it wrong! I've seen people so intent on "teaching" what they learned somewhere else that they didn't realize that they had missed some important difference in how it's being taught today.

You know, as far as from-the-core movements such as twisting, "bringing that arm all the way back to the shoulder," "twisting the hips," etc., those things are taught at white belt level but white belts aren't necessarily going to grasp core power. Some of the stuff is very complicated for a white belt and a white belt is going to be focused on getting his/her stepping correct. I noticed when I became a yellow belt that the instructors began teaching me why I was twisting and had me twist even more to execute a chop and so on (in the same one-steps and wrist grips I learned at white belt level). It's incremental. We do more as we progress. I am sure they will have me snapping my punches and really winging those chops.

I know that there is much finesse that we cannot master for a very long time but we can help one another with the stepping and movements.

 

[Tez3]

I prefer a slow methodical way of learning so all of you won't be surprised to know it took me 9 years before I earned my Ist Dan! I did change styles though and I went from 1st kyu to 9th kup but because my basics were ingrained and well taught I found the transition in styles quite easy. I think you also need a deep understanding of what you are doing and whizzing through the hyungs going through the motions doesn't do it for me. I have to know the Bunkai as well as the techniques. I couldn't cope with 10-15 minutes sessions on a technique, I'm used to spending a much longer time on something and I hate being rushed which I never have been in a class. My Wado instructor was taught by a Japanese instructor who would quite easily spend an hour on one stance or one technique. I don't believe you should learn too much for a grading, I think the best gradings are simple until you get to a certain stage, your knowledge should be carefully built up over time with great care, thought and in my case love! I don't believe you should race for belts.

My way is probably too slow for many but for me it works.

 

[Lynne]

I prefer a slow methodical way of learning so all of you won't be surprised to know it took me 9 years before I earned my Ist Dan! I did change styles though and I went from 1st kyu to 9th kup but because my basics were ingrained and well taught I found the transition in styles quite easy. I think you also need a deep understanding of what you are doing and whizzing through the hyungs going through the motions doesn't do it for me. I have to know the Bunkai as well as the techniques. I couldn't cope with 10-15 minutes sessions on a technique, I'm used to spending a much longer time on something and I hate being rushed which I never have been in a class. My Wado instructor was taught by a Japanese instructor who would quite easily spend an hour on one stance or one technique. I don't believe you should learn too much for a grading, I think the best gradings are simple until you get to a certain stage, your knowledge should be carefully built up over time with great care, thought and in my case love! I don't believe you should race for belts.

My way is probably too slow for many but for me it works.

Believe me, Tez. It can be very overwhelming. My first class I began learning the first hyung. I had no idea what a low block was or a reverse punch. Turn 270 degrees? How? Go up the middle? What middle? Where?! I thought my head would explode. I put a lot of pressure on myself, too. I still do because I know there are preparations and core twisting that must be done to put power into the move, so that's always in the back of my mind. We are really focusing on the five elements now.

We don't have small classes though and our ranks are varied, therefore, only 10 - 20 minutes on forms. We can go to extra help classes though. In extra help classes, we can ask for help on any of our current material.

I think I did learn a lot over the last four weeks but I wasn't expected to be perfect in my spotlight. I know that from doing my one-steps with my Sa Ba Nim as my partner...since I almost picked his nose instead of spearhanding him in the throat, lol. Hey, I just learned the one-steps, so what can you expect? But really, there is no way we could be doing absolutely wonderful after four weeks but we can be working hard.

It is no race for me either. I want to do my best - I really want to have solid knowledge of my material. Knowing that I will spotlight or test probably makes me work harder though - it gives me a goal. People do fail and the testing becomes much harder at the Il Gup levels. Black belt candidates have to be beyond determined.

I'm always nervous at testing. I know my material for gup tests so I shouldn't be so nervous. I did learn last night that most people do not feel ready for the spotlights, the quizzes. Master R mentioned that most people did not feel ready but they needed to attend anyway. I'll be less nervous at my next spotlight but I sure will continue working hard.