Christian Killings In Iraq ~ Another Holy War?

[MA-Caver]

Thousands of Christians flee killings in Mosul



By Leila Fadel, McClatchy Newspapers Sat Oct 11, 6:43 PM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/3069954
BAGHDAD — Christians in Mosul are fleeing their homes after a spate of killings this week that left 12 Christians dead in one of the largest Christian communities in Iraq .

The killings follow large protests by the community last month against the passage of the provincial elections law. An article that would give representation to Christians and other minorities was removed from the law before its passage.
Now the last safe haven for Christians is gone, said Canon Andrew White the vicar of St. George's church in Baghdad .
After a spree of killings and forced evictions of Iraqi Christians in Baghdad last year, many fled to Mosul . But even there they could not escape the danger. In February of this year the Archbishop Paulos Faraj Raho of Mosul was kidnapped and killed.
"Christians are being killed in the only place they felt safe, in Ninevah," White said, referring to the province of which Mosul is the capital. "This is where they fled to and now there's no safe place for them."

Well if there was a reason for troops staying in Iraq... here's another one.
Protecting the innocent, who are being persecuted simply because they aren't Muslims. Sad, but not unexpected. There are still radical Muslims loose in the world who think the old ways should be adhered to.
This group makes their appearance which is interesting in of by itself.

The Hammurabi Association for Human Rights released a statement demanding international attention to the assassinations of Christians likening it to "genocide."

Had to look it up because I'd never heard of it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citizen
Either way... something says this is just going to get worse.

Thoughts, ideas, comments?

 

[jarrod]

very sad, but none of our business.

jf

 

[MA-Caver]

very sad, but none of our business.

jf

I do agree there... but we've already stepped in where it was none of our business... preventing Saddam from killing more Kurds and oppressing his own people and keeping company with whomever he wishes.
But Bush vowed to hunt down terrorist and whomever may harbor them didn't he? We were supportive of that, we helped those who were helpless to rid themselves of a despot ... but have we've over stayed our welcome? Now we're there and there are more people that need protection. Almost as if Al Queda wants us to have another reason to stay so that they can keep killing Americans where it's easiest, on their own ground instead of ours, weakening us even further (in their minds).
So they've upped the ante and threw in persecution of a religious sect in the bargain. Are we to stand idly by and let this happen?
Seems we've made it our business for a long time to help those who cannot help themselves.

Maybe that's why part of the world loves us and the other part hates us.

 

[Sukerkin]

The law of unintended consequences bites Economic Imperialists just as much as any other tyrant. Not that the corporations ultimately behind the war give a rats-*** about the human cost of course but I dont reckon they planned on opening the flood-gates on religious persecution (altho' it was an entirely predictable consequence of ripping out the governing core of a country).

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/60minutes/main3553612.shtml

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Nope, this wasn't planned in advance to draw out the war and kill our economy even further by throwing in another excuse to stay.

Nope, just not possible I'm afraid.

After all, I'm sure in 2000 years there has *NEVER* been religious strife in the *MIDDLE EAST* before, oh heavens no.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.....I am the great and powerful Oz.........

 

[Ray]

The law of unintended consequences bites Economic Imperialists just as much as any other tyrant. Not that the corporations ultimately behind the war give a rats-*** about the human cost of course but I dont reckon they planned on opening the flood-gates on religious persecution (altho' it was an entirely predictable consequence of ripping out the governing core of a country).

Exactly right, the killing of Christian was an entirely predictable consequence of Western involvement. But since Christianity was born in that area, I ask, what happened to the Christians in the early days of Islam? Why, they were converted, killed or enslaved. Perhaps the modern killings are an entirely predictable consequence of Shiria....

 

[Sukerkin]

To me, as an escapee from the 'fold' of the religious, it is yet further proof of what happens when men abrogate their moral responsibilities to a 'higher authority'.

From my perspective, it is worse than slavish devotion to a ruler or a state because all religions preach a version of 'being excellent to each other' (bar some rather perverted sects (some of which exist inside the body of more orthodox faiths)).

The problem is that such exhortations to brotherhood only apply to the people who think the way 'their' religion does. Then 'brotherly love' turns to 'slay the infidel'.

That's what we're seeing in Iraq and is what we have seen throughout history. It makes me ashamed to be human some days .

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't have an example to point to at the moment, but it seems to me that in the early days of our occupation of Iraq, there were those Stateside who were encouraging the idea that we needed to go over there and convert all those Muslims to Christianity. I don't believe this was openly expressed by our political leaders, but it was expressed by some others who were in a position to speak and be heard publicly. When those ideas are widely held (and I admit, I don't know how widely this opinion is held) it can become dangerously close to a crusade. I am sure that to many people living in the Middle East, the US occupation and military actions in the area are seen as nothing more than a crusade.

It's a terrible thing if any groups are being targeted for extermination based on their religion. If this is currently happening over there, that is an awful thing. But we need to be very careful that our own actions don't become the same thing as well.

 

[Ray]

To me, as an escapee from the 'fold' of the religious, it is yet further proof of what happens when men abrogate their moral responsibilities to a 'higher authority'.

From my perspective, it is worse than slavish devotion to a ruler or a state because all religions preach a version of 'being excellent to each other' (bar some rather perverted sects (some of which exist inside the body of more orthodox faiths)).

The problem is that such exhortations to brotherhood only apply to the people who think the way 'their' religion does. Then 'brotherly love' turns to 'slay the infidel'.

That's what we're seeing in Iraq and is what we have seen throughout history. It makes me ashamed to be human some days .

I agree with you that no one should abrogate their moral responsiblities; whether it be blindly following God or man.

The problem is that such exhortations to brotherhood apply to so many organizations even outside of religion...political, criminal and so on. While, yes, it can and does exist in religous organizations too, it's certainly not limited to.

 

[jarrod]

there is always going to be an excuse to stay there. sooner or later we're going to have to just cut our losses & or bankrupt ourselves.

it amazes me that no one can see that we are losing this war the same way we beat the soviets during the cold war: we just made them go broke. sooner or later we're not going to be able to afford to interfere in world politics.

jf

 

[Sukerkin]

A most important point there, Jarrod.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

there is always going to be an excuse to stay there. sooner or later we're going to have to just cut our losses & or bankrupt ourselves.

it amazes me that no one can see that we are losing this war the same way we beat the soviets during the cold war: we just made them go broke. sooner or later we're not going to be able to afford to interfere in world politics.

jf

I'm finding myself harder and harder pressed not to consider that outcome to be the BEST for us at this point.