Changes in Taekwondo

[Logan]

It seems with increasing regularity that the powers that be keep making various changes to taekwondo tecniques and poomse. Some of these, I think, would appear to be improvements in realistic interpretations but other things have me worried - for example in a low section block, extending the arm fully rather than leaving a slight bend. The dangers of overextending the joints worries me....

Anyone clarify this logic further? A cynical part of me wonders if changes are to distinguish tkd further from other, perhaps related, striking arts.

 

[exile]

It seems with increasing regularity that the powers that be keep making various changes to taekwondo tecniques and poomse. Some of these, I think, would appear to be improvements in realistic interpretations

hey, Logan, do you have an example or two in mind of this? We don't set much stock by what the KKW decrees, so I don't keep up much with any technique dictates coming from that quarter... but I gotta say, anything the KKW ordained that didn't tie in with the purely Olympic/performance side of things would surprise me.

but other things have me worried - for example in a low section block, extending the arm fully rather than leaving a slight bend. The dangers of overextending the joints worries me....

Yeah, that sounds loopy to me... what would be the point of something that awkward?

Anyone clarify this logic further? A cynical part of me wonders if changes are to distinguish tkd further from other, perhaps related, striking arts.

That wouldn't surprise me at all, given the history of the hyungs in the the (proto)KKW curricula...

 

[StuartA]

Yeah, that sounds loopy to me... what would be the point of something that awkward?

As well as highly dangerous, as a straight arm is a weak arm!

That wouldn't surprise me at all, given the history of the hyungs in the the (proto)KKW curricula...

Fairly often these things are simply about $$$!


Stuart

 

[terryl965]

As well as highly dangerous, as a straight arm is a weak arm!




Fairly often these things are simply about $$$!


Stuart

This is all to true

 

[Imua Kuntao]

full block extension has always been the norm since before I started in 1970. It clears/sweeps the attack as you move forward or backward, it is not extendeing the arm that is wrong.

 

[exile]

full block extension has always been the norm since before I started in 1970. It clears/sweeps the attack as you move forward or backward, it is not extendeing the arm that is wrong.

What's wrong is (i) that on the realistic construal of the low 'block' as a strike to an attacker's groin, lowered head/neck/collarbone, or any of the other scenarios in which the 'block' is actually a terminal strike—and there are many—the amount of force you can deliver with a fully extended arm is minimal, and (ii) on the literal use of the low 'block' as a blocking move, the effect on an incoming hard kick is going to be close to nil with an arm fully extended like the arm of a clock, for exactly the same reason as in (i).

Try the following simple experiment: hold your arm out fully extended and have someone grip it at the wrist and try to rotate it away from them. Then allow a bit of 'crook' in your elbow and try the same thing? Which scenario made it easy for them to do this? How much resistance were you able to offer respectively on the two attempts?

 

[YoungMan]

We always practiced the low block with the arm extended as much as possible, while keeping the natural slight bend.
You may be referring to the KKW way of doing the low block with the forearm having a more pronounced bend, almost 30 degrees or so. We never did that. To us, that kind of bend minimized the power transference to the leg and negated the technique.
Actually, although we are a KKW school (GM Uhm is our Instructor's instructor), we never did a lot of things they authorized.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

That wouldn't surprise me at all, given the history of the hyungs in the the (proto)KKW curricula...

You say hyung? I ask as these days the term is seldom applied to Taeguk/Palgwes and I'm curious in case you are alluding to something else.

 

[exile]

You say hyung? I ask as these days the term is seldom applied to Taeguk/Palgwes and I'm curious in case you are alluding to something else.

No, I'm using hyung as the sort of generic terms that covers the KKW forms and the ITF forms. I prefer it, given the fact that there seem to be strong sectarian dividing lines that are called up by poomse vs. tul, and a lot of what I'm interested in about the Korean forms crosses those factional lines completely. At the same time, a hyung makes it clear that it's a Korean form, not a Chinese or Okinawan or whatever form... so it seems to be the exactly right word for what I want to refer to.

 

[Decker]

My old TKD club in school focused on poomsae almost to the point of excluding sparring training, since most of our members were newbies on entering, and had only 2 years to participate.

Hence, all the tournaments we take part in as a club are poomsae tournaments, and we always find the stances, chambers for blocks, etc. being tweaked from tournament to tournament. I asked my coach why, she replied that essentially, the WTF wanted to earn money.

*shrugs*

 

[Logan]

hey, Logan, do you have an example or two in mind of this? We don't set much stock by what the KKW decrees, so I don't keep up much with any technique dictates coming from that quarter... but I gotta say, anything the KKW ordained that didn't tie in with the purely Olympic/performance side of things would surprise me.

It seems to be fairly minor changes in poomse mostly that are almost interpretations e.g. when kicking during poomse lifting the hands into a defensive stance (not leaving the arm extended after strike), changes in kihap, and some difference in striking e.g. back fist underneath the arm rather than over (if that makes sense).

Most of the changes I'm fine with but I just can't understand the hard locking of joints.

 

[exile]

It seems to be fairly minor changes in poomse mostly that are almost interpretations e.g. when kicking during poomse lifting the hands into a defensive stance (not leaving the arm extended after strike),

The thing is, I always wonder about the body dynamics in kicking in forms and how they actually relate to a SD scenario. This has come up before... it often seems difficult to relate what the hands are doing to what is entailed by the higher kicks you see so much (as vs. knee strikes or kicks to mid- or low-body targets, where the distances involved seem to make more sense).

The whole issue of how to view the kicking in hyungs is kind of vexed...

changes in kihap, and some difference in striking e.g. back fist underneath the arm rather than over (if that makes sense).

Most of the changes I'm fine with but I just can't understand the hard locking of joints.

Yeah, that one seems a non-starter, in terms of biomechanics... sounds more like a 'pose' than an actual component of fighting technique.

 

[YoungMan]

The body and limbs should be made strong upon execution of technique, but the joints should never be locked. This will invariably lead to joint problems if done for a long period of time. I've seen people that had to wear knee braces because they locked their knee joints thinking that's how you make power. It's not.
You know, I've practiced traditional Taekwondo for about 25 years and I've never had joint problems because of it. I make it a point to emphasize the traditional (Chung Do Kwan) method of making power versus whatever new trend the Kukkiwon is promoting.

 

[terryl965]

The body and limbs should be made strong upon execution of technique, but the joints should never be locked. This will invariably lead to joint problems if done for a long period of time. I've seen people that had to wear knee braces because they locked their knee joints thinking that's how you make power. It's not.
You know, I've practiced traditional Taekwondo for about 25 years and I've never had joint problems because of it. I make it a point to emphasize the traditional (Chung Do Kwan) method of making power versus whatever new trend the Kukkiwon is promoting.

I agree I do not change jsut for the sake of changing. It needs to be a real reason behind it. My knee problems are from football and basketball not TKD.

 

[FieldDiscipline]

I have yet to see this joint locking business. Sounds worrying.