chain-punching damagewise.

[Kung Fu Wang]

Chi Sao is about chasing the hands ...

There is nothing wrong about "chasing the hands." In wrestling, that's called "grip fight".

In fighting, you will have 2 options.

1. striking method - use your hand to meet your opponent's face and knock him down.
2. grappling method - use your hands to control your opponent's arms so his hands/arms can't reach to your body.

Sometimes you don't want to break your opponent's nose. You just want him to stop attacking you. The 2nd approach is a much more civilized methods (less problem in court). It does require you to step into the grappling area.

 

[JowGaWolf]

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The best "chain punches" that I have seen.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The best "chain punches" that I have seen.

Funny that his opponent made such a basic beginner mistake. The mistake was not taking an angle.

 

[KangTsai]

There is nothing wrong about "chasing the hands." In wrestling, that's called "grip fight".

In fighting, you will have 2 options.

1. striking method - use your hand to meet your opponent's face and knock him down.
2. grappling method - use your hands to control your opponent's arms so his hands/arms can't reach to your body.

Sometimes you don't want to break your opponent's nose. You just want him to stop attacking you. The 2nd approach is a much more civilized methods (less problem in court). It does require you to step into the grappling area.

Doing both at the same time is the best method. Standup grip fighting rewards whoever breaks the grip fight e.g. falling over foot-to-belly.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Funny that his opponent made such a basic beginner mistake. The mistake was not taking an angle.

When your body start to lean back too much that your center is outside of your base, the gravity will pull your body backward, it's difficult to lean your body sideway again.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Doing both at the same time is the best method. Standup grip fighting rewards whoever breaks the grip fight e.g. falling over foot-to-belly.

From a

- wrestler's point of view, you want to use your left arm to control your opponent's right arm, and use your right arm to control his left arm. This way, his hands cannot touch your body and he can't take you down.
- striker point of view, you want to punch on your opponent's head before he can punch on your head.

Which way is better? IMO, you don't have to break your opponent's nose to end a fight.

By definition, this Aikido guy is "chasing hands" which is a good strategy - if you can control your opponent's arms, he can't punch you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

When your body start to lean back too much that your center is outside of your base, the gravity will pull your body backward, it's difficult to lean your body sideway again.

That wasn't the problem that he had. He regained his balance at 0:07 in which 1 punch misses and the other hits his upper chest near the shoulder. At 0:08 he starts his forward lean but instead of landing to take a forward 45 degree angle, side movement, or drop for a take down, he just continues the backwards movement as he tries to block punches. He loses balance twice.

 

[Buka]

From a

- wrestler's point of view, you want to use your left arm to control your opponent's right arm, and use your right arm to control his left arm. This way, his hands cannot touch your body and he can't take you down.
- striker point of view, you want to punch on your opponent's head before he can punch on your head.

Which way is better? IMO, you don't have to break your opponent's nose to end a fight.

By definition, this Aikido guy is "chasing hands" which is a good strategy - if you can control your opponent's arms, he can't punch you.

I wonder why the guy is wearing gloves. At no time did he have any intent in using them. Cold hands, maybe?

 

[KangTsai]

From a

- wrestler's point of view, you want to use your left arm to control your opponent's right arm, and use your right arm to control his left arm. This way, his hands cannot touch your body and he can't take you down.
- striker point of view, you want to punch on your opponent's head before he can punch on your head.

Which way is better? IMO, you don't have to break your opponent's nose to end a fight.

By definition, this Aikido guy is "chasing hands" which is a good strategy - if you can control your opponent's arms, he can't punch you.

For a wrestler, wrist grips are only distractions or setups for takedowns, which, in a self defence situation is considered a fight-ender. Maintaining distance and trying to control the arms only gets you so far.
I think that demonstration's pretty bad because the 'boxer' assuming the role of an uke is barely doing anything (much like a normal aikido uke) and so doesn't prove much about anything.

 

[wingchun100]

I think a lot of people can blame Ip Man for that misconception

Yes, especially that ridiculous fight with Hurricane in 2 when Hurricane has his gloves up, and Ip chain punches them. I rolled my eyes countless times at that one.

 

[wingchun100]

I mean no disrespect when I ask this, but I am genuinely curious because the camera angle kind of sucks...but is that guy leaning his torso forward as he chain punches?

 

[Danny T]

I wonder why the guy is wearing gloves. At no time did he have any intent in using them. Cold hands, maybe?

Nah...his isn't a boxer but they wanted it to 'Look' like a boxer so he is wearing boxing gloves.

By definition, this Aikido guy is "chasing hands" which is a good strategy - if you can control your opponent's arms, he can't punch you.

What do you define as "chasing hands".
Look closely and you'll see the aikido man directed his arms straight toward the "boxer's" core. Even as the aikido man moved he still directed his arms toward the opponents core but remained out of range of being hit. Once contact was made then he adhered with positive control by grabbing the limb. For the most part the "boxer" gave the aikido man his arms. (but then really he isn't a boxer)

 

[geezer]

Nah...his isn't a boxer but they wanted it to 'Look' like a boxer so he is wearing boxing gloves.

Demos like this are so obviously unrealistic as to be counterproductive. Any boxer watching this would be just shaking his head.

 

[ShortBridge]

I wonder why the guy is wearing gloves. At no time did he have any intent in using them. Cold hands, maybe?

I agree. I think this should be called "Aikido vs Aikido student wearing boxing gloves."

But, the problem is in the posturing of the video rather than the training they are doing, which appears to me to be good training. The aikido practitioner is good and appears to me to be drilling something specific, rather than "fighting a boxer" or trying to prove something. But, YouTube videos on martial arts are always held up as evidence of something, so it doesn't come off that way.

Of course, I can't really speak to their motives, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt in this case.

 

[wingchun100]

Demos like this are so obviously unrealistic as to be counterproductive. Any boxer watching this would be just shaking his head.

Kind of like all the wing chun versus boxer videos. The only one I saw that seemed real was when Dom Izzo brought in two guys he knew who boxed, and he went toe to toe with each of them on camera. Some people think he is arrogant, but hey...at least he tests his wing chun against other people who really practice those styles instead of asking one of his wing chun students to pretend to be a boxer, grappler, etc.

 

[ShortBridge]

Yeah, but again, it's training. I have my students do a lot of things that look and are unrealistic, because I'm training them. If those segments of our training showed up on YouTube (which they won't), they'd get lots "lol, try that against Anderson Silva!" comments.

Someone said this week in one of these threads that YouTube is the worst thing to ever happen to Martial Arts. That's a bit extreme, but he has a point. Show a boxer doing speed bag work and no one posts "Oh sure, I'd like to see you try that against x". You have to train, if that's what the Aikido guy was doing or trying to demonstrate to his students, then good on him. His mistake is letting it end up on-line where people will do exactly what we're doing with it.

wingchun100, I think it was you that is starting to teach on your own, congrats. You'll struggle with this, as we all do. There are a lot of steps between teaching people si lim tao and bringing in Golden Gloves Champions for them to spar with. Keep us posted on how it's coming along.

 

[wingchun100]

Yeah, but again, it's training. I have my students do a lot of things that look and are unrealistic, because I'm training them. If those segments of our training showed up on YouTube (which they won't), they'd get lots "lol, try that against Anderson Silva!" comments.

Someone said this week in one of these threads that YouTube is the worst thing to ever happen to Martial Arts. That's a bit extreme, but he has a point. Show a boxer doing speed bag work and no one posts "Oh sure, I'd like to see you try that against x". You have to train, if that's what the Aikido guy was doing or trying to demonstrate to his students, then good on him. His mistake is letting it end up on-line where people will do exactly what we're doing with it.

wingchun100, I think it was you that is starting to teach on your own, congrats. You'll struggle with this, as we all do. There are a lot of steps between teaching people si lim tao and bringing in Golden Gloves Champions for them to spar with. Keep us posted on how it's coming along.

Yes I am the one who started teaching, and I am also the one who made the YouTube comment.

You are right about one thing though: no one ever questions how other styles would handle wing chun, but they are always wondering how wing chun would work against every other style in the world...and then saying it would NOT work, with no proof otherwise.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You are right about one thing though: no one ever questions how other styles would handle wing chun,

I think people ask this question because they are Wing Chun practitioners who want to know how to deal with Wing Chun. Jow Ga Kung fu seems to have answers for Wing Chun attacks. If you do wing Chun then I can tell you that attacking my center line will be difficult because in Jow Ga we always move it. So if that's the only game plane then the Wing Chun will fail.

You'll discover that the most evasive boxers are the ones who learn how to move off center.

 

[ShortBridge]

I think people ask this question because they are Wing Chun practitioners who want to know how to deal with Wing Chun. Jow Ga Kung fu seems to have answers for Wing Chun attacks. If you do wing Chun then I can tell you that attacking my center line will be difficult because in Jow Ga we always move it. So if that's the only game plane then the Wing Chun will fail.
...

Yeah, but the problem is that is not our only game plan, just like earlier in this thread it was stated that the significance of chain punching in Wing Chun has been highly over stated.

Wing Chun has the advantage and the curse of being popular and have spread more broadly than most any other Chinese system, including Jow Ga (which I would love to know more about). But, a bunch of people put a bunch of stuff out there and that's just not the whole story.

On the original question, I think the power and impact of Wing Chun's straight punch (chain or otherwise) varies greatly by a number of factors, most importantly range. The same punch, with the same force is more or less effective based on the range from which it is thrown. With chain punching a lot of what I see posted is from way too far out to be effective from a damage standpoint, but I suppose it serves a different purpose in that context.