Certification and double take

[matt.m]

I am never going to nationals or the olympics, U.S. Games, Pan-Am games for TKD or anything like that. I don't care about Kukkiwon Cert. at all. I have seen schools in St. L that are hell bent on Kukkiwon Cert. I am being polite an in all sincerity going to say this. "The bb's of this school are horrible, they are kukkiwon cert. though. I don't think that some of the bb's at the un named school are as good as a Moo Sul Kwan green belt either."

Sorry, I am coming off so adamant about this but the TKD program I am in isn't driven by certifications from the kukkiwon or any other big organization either.

Plus I believe your personal skill level is what holds your belt as legitimate not the belt saying you have skill.

In the Marine Corps we thought "The uniform doesn't make the man, the man makes the uniform." The same applies here.

 

[MSUTKD]

But, you cannot just say you are a Marine. To get rank you earn it, and in a way get certified. Certification is very important on a basic level whether it is an international or local certificate. Too many people self promote themselves to the level they think they should be then make their students jump through the hoops they themselves went around. As long as the instructor leads from the front, the certificate won’t be the most important thing.

ron

 

[matt.m]

But, you cannot just say you are a Marine. To get rank you earn it, and in a way get certified. Certification is very important on a basic level whether it is an international or local certificate. Too many people self promote themselves to the level they think they should be then make their students jump through the hoops they themselves went around. As long as the instructor leads from the front, the certificate won’t be the most important thing.

ron

Ron, those are wise words indeed. Simplistic rationale, yet very true. I keep forgetting that there are those who self promote and just "Do what they want." You know we used to jail those who impersonated a Marine around base. Would be cool if we could do that to the "I think I am a black belt, so therefore I am" types of people.

Great point has been made.

 

[stickarts]

I usually get good references before i meet an instructor. Someone I respect has recommended them. I watch the instructor in action and i watch the students. I also like to have a one on one discussion with the instructor and I have to feel that their philosophies are in line with mine and that they are a good person.
Photos with famous people hanging about are all about marketing and there is nothing wrong with this. If you want to run a successful school, marketing is part of the business side of things. Of course it doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of their teaching.
After watching a class and a personal interview I have a pretty good feeling if I am interested in pursuing training with them. I do notice what certifications the instructor has. This goes into the mix of what my impression is of them but is not a huge deciding factor for me.
At this stage in the game, I pick my instructors pretty carefully.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I am happy with my house certificates. I can't see spending 500-1000 dollars on a black belt test like some schools do, just to have a record with some group.

 

[IcemanSK]

I am happy with my house certificates. I can't see spending 500-1000 dollars on a black belt test like some schools do, just to have a record with some group.

$500-$1000?! Heck, that's cheap compared to what some have spend for even phony certificates! A Kukkiwon certificate (1st Dan) only costs $70. I can see an instructor ading something for time & the test. But I've heard some folks being charged $5000 for it!

 

[ArmorOfGod]

would you train with another Master that was not offering nothing but a house belt?
Terry

Hmmm.
It sounds like you dislike or do not approve of house belts by saying "nothing but a house belt."
Why do you look down on them?

AoG

 

[terryl965]

Hmmm.
It sounds like you dislike or do not approve of house belts by saying "nothing but a house belt."
Why do you look down on them?

AoG

Sir no where in my statement did I say I look down on any house belts, some of the best practittiners I know just have a house belt it was blanket statement to see where other folks act in these stituation?
Thank you AOG
Terry

 

[Don Roley]

Yes, thats correct Don. Perhaps, I should clarify at least where I was coming from. I was speaking from a standpoint as to where I am now.

Yep, that's the thing. You may not be an expert, but after years in the art you probably know the stories and the reputations of people. At your level, you really don't need to see a certificate. But I always think about the new guys.

Here is the thing that gets me. The original post was about Kukkiwon certification. That group is in Korea and is the big guy in Tae Kwon Do. If you do not claim to be TKD, then really why the debate? But..... if the instructor is doing his own thing, why use a non English name? Why use one of an art that was started by the Kukkiwon instead of a new name like "defensive tactics" or something like that?

I have run across folks claiming to teach ninjutsu. I have also run across people that actually did study it and now teach something else. Of the two, the guys who no longer use the ninjutsu name seem to be better practicioners than the guys that no longer study with a group in Japan, but still cling to the name.

Let us not even mention the frauds! They are just pitiful. Anyone I have seen tapes of claiming to be Koga ninjutsu just were too bad to be believed. But they try to use the name ninjutsu, even if they try to claim it is not important. (Oh, so why arrange it so that we hear about it?)

But if you love an art so much that you want to teach in its name, then why won't someone try to follow that arts original founder or orginization? It seems strange to me, though I don't know if TKD situations are applicable. If you add new things and come up with something new, a new name seems to be needed. If you use the old name, then trying to always gain deeper understanding and maintaining a relationship with founders seems an important thing to me.