Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper

[Blade96]

I think it probably refers to an ID. I have a liquor licence because when i was in my mid 20's and I tried to go to bars with my friends, I'd get ID'd because I looked young.

Not sure but I think.

 

[JDenver]

Getting back to the Stephen Harper question.

I have great misgivings about this government. They take every opportunity to fire and silence anyone who disagrees with them. They foster mistrust and venom with civil servants. They are full of paranoia for anything not related to their party. They spend an inordinate amount of time plotting to destroy their political opponents, or anyone else, like those in civil service, who disagree with them. They are antagonistic to those with higher education ('elitists'). They pit groups against each other for their own gain. They hope to declaw the federal system to the point of Canada being a country in name only, a collection of disparate provinces (defederalisation, accomplished through lowering taxes to point of building defecits and passing everything to the provinces, both lousy ideas). They refuse to lead, only to deflect, avoid and argue. They lack any vision for the country, except to weaken it.

I could go on and on. There are examples in every sector, from mining to culture to agriculture. I'm not interested in engaging 'but the other parties did this and that'. This is worse. This is as bad as I've known in 25 years.

I have no idea why anyone, even fiscal conservatives, would vote for them.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Hell if I know!

Years ago they use to have an age of majority card here in Ontario, so if you didn't have a drivers licence you could still have offical government Id with which to buy alcohol.

Yeah, I had an Age of Majority card in the seventies. It was photo ID that proved one was old enough to drink. I have a vague recollection that in those days, the driver's license didn't come with a photo, but I could be wrong.

No, a licence to sell alcohol would be to an organization, corporation, club, or business entity of some sort. Again another province may be differnet.

Not exactly. I believe the Liquor Control Board of Ontario started issuing licensee cards in the eighties or nineties. Previously, if you owned a restaurant or bar, you could only order liquor through LCBO warehousing; you couldn't go to a LCBO retail outlet. The reason was that licensees pay a surcharge over and above the retail price of booze.

Giving licensees cards made life easier for restaurant operators. If they suddenly ran short, they could legally go to the liquor store to top up their stock. Same if they were purchasing a particular product for a special event.

The liquor license itself would bear the name of applicant(s), not just the establishment. So would the ID card. So, essentially, the ID card serves as gov't issue photo ID and would be satisfactory proof for elections purposes.

 

[Ramirez]

They take every opportunity to fire and silence anyone who disagrees with them. They foster mistrust and venom with civil servants. They are full of paranoia for anything not related to their party.

I read once that Harper said he liked to see fear in the eyes of the people that worked for him. That is something you would hear from someone on the student leadership council in high school, not and adult who spent anytime working with other adults.

It sometimes sounds like he likes to take out his life's frustrations on anyone who opposes him, so we are all paying for him not getting a blow job in high school.

Let's not forget Jackboot Jimmie Flaherty, the ambulance chaser posing as a finance minister.

Or John Baird who seems to channel his anger at having to stay in the closet about his man crush on Harper at his political foes.

Or how about that ***** Mackay who put politics in front of his relationship with Stronach then played up his broken heart in front of the nation.

Too bad we can't turn the clock back to the old PC party and stand up guys like Joe Clark.

 

[Ken Morgan]

 

[Scott T]

I read once that Harper said he liked to see fear in the eyes of the people that worked for him. That is something you would hear from someone on the student leadership council in high school, not and adult who spent anytime working with other adults.

Although it does sound like him, I'd like to see something to verify this. Can you remember the source? Otherwise it's unsubstantiated rumour.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Guys you accuse the CPC and it 100 000+ members of being right wing nuts, sorry the vast majority of us are intelligent, educated, middle class, centrists, who care very deeply about this country and our people. (You would not believe the amount of atheists involved). We are by no means perfect, nor have we every claimed to be.

I refuse to swallow anyone’s Cool Aid, even my own parties. I think for myself, I argue points I believe in, even if it goes against what the Leader believes. I had dinner with a cabinet minister this past Monday and lunch with another, this past Tuesday. I am having a coffee with an NDP candidate tomorrow morning. The two ministers are intelligent, accomplished and personable people as is the NDP candidate I am seeing tomorrow. To the best of my knowledge I have not seen horns, tails or fire and brimstone on any of the three.

I humbly suggest that many of you have swallowed someone’s Cool Aid.
:asian:

 

[Ramirez]

Although it does sound like him, I'd like to see something to verify this. Can you remember the source? Otherwise it's unsubstantiated rumour.

I can only find this link referencing the original globe and mail story, but you will have to be a subscriber to read it.

http://montrealsimon.blogspot.com/2009/08/stephen-harper-and-mask-of-evil.html

 

[Ramirez]

Guys you accuse the CPC and it 100 000+ members of being right wing nuts, sorry the vast majority of us are intelligent, educated, middle class, centrists, who care very deeply about this country and our people. (You would not believe the amount of atheists involved). We are by no means perfect, nor have we every claimed to be.

I refuse to swallow anyone’s Cool Aid, even my own parties. I think for myself, I argue points I believe in, even if it goes against what the Leader believes. I had dinner with a cabinet minister this past Monday and lunch with another, this past Tuesday. I am having a coffee with an NDP candidate tomorrow morning. The two ministers are intelligent, accomplished and personable people as is the NDP candidate I am seeing tomorrow. To the best of my knowledge I have not seen horns, tails or fire and brimstone on any of the three.

I humbly suggest that many of you have swallowed someone’s Cool Aid.
:asian:

Actually Ken , I haven't accused any CPC member of being a right wing nut, although if you are honest you will admit there is a faction that are religious fundamentalists, homophobes and racists. I am sure you recall the cabinet minister who on camera in the early 90s referred to fags with dirt under their fingernails.....very progressive, if the MP holds that view I wonder about his constituents.

To be honest , it is only Harper and the ex-Harrisites and current neo-cons that I can't stand. I wasn't fond of Chretien and Martin and the way they turned Canada into a corprotocracy, but I'll give them credit for being good fiscal managers.

I can't say Mulroney was great at the fiscal management , but I still admired him for standing up to Thatcher on South Africa back in '89 and for his progressive views on social issues.

It is not Liberal party Kook-Aid I have been drinking, it is revulsion at the Harper hemlock.

 

[Blade96]

Guys you accuse the CPC and it 100 000+ members of being right wing nuts, sorry the vast majority of us are intelligent, educated, middle class, centrists, who care very deeply about this country and our people. (You would not believe the amount of atheists involved). We are by no means perfect, nor have we every claimed to be.

I refuse to swallow anyone’s Cool Aid, even my own parties. I think for myself, I argue points I believe in, even if it goes against what the Leader believes. I had dinner with a cabinet minister this past Monday and lunch with another, this past Tuesday. I am having a coffee with an NDP candidate tomorrow morning. The two ministers are intelligent, accomplished and personable people as is the NDP candidate I am seeing tomorrow. To the best of my knowledge I have not seen horns, tails or fire and brimstone on any of the three.

I humbly suggest that many of you have swallowed someone’s Cool Aid.
:asian:

With all due respect, (especially because I like you and think you are nice and intelligent, too) I dont think I've swallowed anyone's Cool - Aid. believe me, if I lived in a so called 'communist' country I'd have been put up against the wall a long time ago. because I have a little nasty habit of thinking for myself. =]

another thing I have never forgiven this government for and I'll never forget this, is when Stephen Harper said the ordinary Canadian does not care about the arts. What an insult. so much so it helped turn Quebecers off from him. and also to people like me who've dedicated my whole life to the arts. My degree is bachelor of arts. I'm a hockey and sports fan which are not just sports, they are arts. I study martial arts. and I'm an 'ordinary' Canadian. Imagine that.

He also said that Canadians dont care that parliament is shut down until March. That is a ie, and I know it, everyone knows it.

 

[Ramirez]

My mistake, he wasn't a cabinet minister but a back bencher.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/409937

 

[Blade96]

also, I couldnt stand the Alliance or Reform parties either when they existed. They are a type of conservatism that did not exist for the old Progressive Conservative Party. I couldnt stand Harper or manning or any of them long before the mackay and harper joined their parties together. btw Did you know the old alliance (previous reform) party had a link to Canadian neo nazis? Dont take my word for it, look it up.

These New people are not Tories, to my mind. Tories are Progressive Conservatives, in my mind. My father was a member of the PC's for years. attended PC leadership conventions in the 1980's and 1990's. When they - mackay and harper - joined their party together to make one big party, and my father found out what Harper was like, he broke with them and canceled his membership.

Btw I feel harper wanted to do that cause he knew he wouldn't have a shot in hell at getting any power with the parties he was with. And how about the scrapping the gun registry? Harper got them to vote against this by putting several MP's under duress, making false pamphlets about them with lying statements. so they felt like they couldnt say no. He made tv commercials saying that ignatieff was 'just visiting' canada and that he couldnt run the country because he had lived and worked away for a time. How does that make him incapable of running a country, on the contrary, a PM with a knowledge of thw world is actually good. ( I'm not that fond of Ignatieff for reasons having nothing to do with the fact that he lived abroad. Just saying that that doesnt mean anyone is incapable of being a decent PM.)

 

[Gordon Nore]

Guys you accuse the CPC and it 100 000+ members of being right wing nuts, sorry the vast majority of us are intelligent, educated, middle class, centrists, who care very deeply about this country and our people. (You would not believe the amount of atheists involved). We are by no means perfect, nor have we every claimed to be.

Just an aside for non-Canadian posters. The former federal Progressive Conservative Party splintered somewhat in the eighties and nineties with the formation of the federal Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Party. The Bloc consisted of Conservative members in Quebec who jumped ship and formed a party built on special status or separation for Quebec. To this day the Bloc -- a federal party in name only -- fields candidates in the Province of Quebec only.

Now the Reform Party was very much a western enterprise. While they fielded candidates across the country, they never won a federal seat east of Ontario to the best of my recollection. I think they managed one seat in Ontario at that. Over time they renamed themselves The Canadian Alliance before they finally reformed with the Conservatives to make the Conservative Party of Canada.

Reform / Alliance folks always made me a little queasy. Their first leader Preston Manning wanted to be PM of Canada, but never troubled himself to learn French -- one of our two official languages. The party had an anti-immigration sensibility. They didn't seem to me to value our traditional social safety net.

When they reformed with the traditional conservatives, some critics at the time called it a takeover of conservatism by the Reform / Alliance. I believe both Mackay and Harper come from Reform. They've got the stink of that era on them, and I think that has what has prevented the party from winning a majority gov't in the last two elections.

If I'm completely honest though, I'd have to say while I'd prefer to see one of the other parties at the helm, I really haven't seen them doing anything to stand out. Jack Layton, head of the party I have generally voted for, the NDP, is an affable guy. I've met him a couple of times. I liked much of what he did as a local politician in Toronto.

Michael Ignatieff, the Liberal Party leader, is much more capable than his predecessor Dion, but I still haven't seen a break out moment in his leadership.

I think as much as I don't care for Harper, as long as he's in a minority government, which curtails his movements, it's probably as good as things are going to get right now. His proroguing of Parliament really sticks in my craw. Apart from the fact that prorogation halts the inquiry into handling of prisoners in Afghanistan, we're still tough economic times, and MPs should be at work.

It'll be interesting to see how the Opposition handles this when they get back. If Harper continues to take a bashing in the polls, this might be the time for (1) the Opposition to bring down the government, or (2) for the Tories to get themselves a good candidate to lead the party.

 

[Blade96]

I'd also like to say that those who did speak on this (me included) dont like harper. I'd like to hear also from Conservative members like Ken. come on, Ken, speak. I dont bite I'd like to hear your thoughts too, on some of the issues we are chatting about.

also never forget the first thing Harper did when he took power first in 2006 was to hold a vote to overturn Martin's granting same sex couples the right to marry. I still have newspaper articles from that. something I never forgot - first thing he wanted to do was try and take away people's rights.

 

[Ramirez]

When they reformed with the traditional conservatives, some critics at the time called it a takeover of conservatism by the Reform / Alliance. I believe both Mackay and Harper come from Reform. They've got the stink of that era on them, and I think that has what has prevented the party from winning a majority gov't in the last two elections.

Actually MacKay IIRC Mackay was the head of the PC party and after pledging not to join the Alliance broke his word only months later.


The other thing that annoys me about Harper is his Rove type politics, attacking Colvin and the other parties as unpatriotic for trying to find out about the Afghan detainees, or saying how they are betraying the Canadian soldiers is attack politics as its worse.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Mackay was from the PC side of things.

The Alliance side of the party is a minority, the old PCer’s, (C’est Moi) and the new members since the merger make up the vast majority of the CPC.

As for Iffy? Come on, it stinks of entitlement when someone who hasn’t lived in this country in over 30 years, is recruited by the party hierarchy to come back and lead the party into the promised land.

As for Jack? Five words: Bob Rae, Premier of Ontario. Never, ever F***’n again!! The common man my ***, Jack walks around in $2000 tailor made suits, and has old union idea’s better left to the 1950’s. The ordinary Canadian he courts is nothing like he thinks it is. He is so far out of touch, it’s incredible.

BTW Bob Rae prorogued the Ontario legislature 3 times in his 4 years…I won’t even get into Chrétien doing the same.

You will not see an election this year. The LPC still has not rebuilt its $$, Ontario has its municipals in the fall, and the CPC is still ahead in the polls. Next Spring at the earliest.

Actually what Harper did for SSM, was let the members have a free vote, whereby members from all parties shoot it down. It didn’t mean anything because it’s a provincial matter anyway.

Keep drinking the cool aid boys and girls….

 

[Ken Morgan]

Side note.

I never liked Preston Manning, in fact most of his idea’s I am firmly against, but I had dinner with him a couple of years ago and managed to have a really deep discussion with the man. Then he gave his speech and I chatted with him again.

No matter what you think of his idea’s, he is one of the most intelligent and most genuinely nice men you can ever have the privilege of meeting. He completely surprised and floored me that night.

One thing I learned about that night? When it comes to politics, leave your prejudices and biases at the door.

 

[Ramirez]

Keep drinking the cool aid boys and girls….

Us? You're the one that said the CPC aren't right wingnuts, but I see you avoided the issue of Lukiwski who sits for them in Parliament.

Actually Ken, on most issues you and I are on the same side of the fence and I quite enjoy your posts, since you seem to be in with the Tories maybe you can do something about swinging back to their traditional values as in he Joe Clark era and away from the neo-cons, fundies and homophobes.

 

[Blade96]

Side note.

I never liked Preston Manning, in fact most of his idea’s I am firmly against, but I had dinner with him a couple of years ago and managed to have a really deep discussion with the man. Then he gave his speech and I chatted with him again.

No matter what you think of his idea’s, he is one of the most intelligent and most genuinely nice men you can ever have the privilege of meeting. He completely surprised and floored me that night.

One thing I learned about that night? When it comes to politics, leave your prejudices and biases at the door.

yeah, Mackay was a PC.

a lot of these people are like what you described, in fact if I happened to run into Harper on the street or have dinner with him I'd probably like him as a person. My parents met him in 2006 during the campaign and said he's nice to chat to. I just dont like him as a leader. or his political beliefs and views. and neither do my parents anymore.

its weird Ihave had friends like that.....who were my friends but when it came to politics, religion, whatever, i thought they were bat **** crazy otherwise =] One of them was a seventh day adventist who still believes and teaches people that the earth is only 4,000 years old. Goes to show Ken is right - you can like these people as persons but not in the religious or political sphere.

I could tell Ken's a tory. not with the right wing nutbars.

 

[Ramirez]

a lot of these people are like what you described, in fact if I happened to run into Harper on the street or have dinner with him I'd probably like him as a person. My parents met him in 2006 during the campaign and said he's nice to chat to. I just dont like him as a leader. or his political beliefs and views. and neither do my parents anymore.

I could tell Ken's a tory. not with the right wing nutbars.

Well I doubt you could be a successful politician without putting on a charming face to the public, however you could be a complete a-hole in private, by all accounts Chretien was a son of a ***** in private, so was Mulroney.

And I agree about Ken, he is anything but a right wing nutbar but I think he projects that on the rest of the party. Hell, maybe the Ontario wing isn't like that at all but I would guess differently about out west and former Alliance strong holds.