Canada To Introduce Copyright Law Next Week

[Cryozombie]

Well, my principles in this case are U.S. law. Yours are piracy.

Yeah. Slavery was a law too. Once. What's your point? That an industry with billions of dollars can manipulate the government into passing laws that make it richer, even tho in their glaring inconsistancys they make no sense... and the actions of the population indicate that they disagree with them?

But hey... lets face it... we are less and less a government "of the people by the people and for the people," and more and more a Government of the Corporation, By the Corporation, and For the Corporation... because they hold all the money.

 

[Don Roley]

Here's where our principles differ, fundamentally. I wont condone theft of property. If I have a cow, and you take my cow, I no longer have a cow. Therefore you stole from me. The same goes for farmland, bread, a compact disk, or money...

But the way I see it is If I own the Mona Lisa, and you come take a picture of it hanging on my wall, blow it up and put it on your wall, and enjoy it, you have not stolen from me, because I still have the painting. I also believe You cannot "steal" what does not exist... code. Sound. Air. Its all the same, TO MY WAY OF THINKING. Thats my principle.

So, you give no credence for skull sweat and creativity? You don't think that musicians, technicians, writers, etc should be paid for what they do?

If you compartmentalize things down to just the physical cost of producing a DVD or CD, then you ignore all the expenses that were needed to produce that song from the effort of the writer all the way down to the first aid guy who stood by just in case during recording. The producers have already paid them, now they need to get back those costs and if they can't they won't do so in the future.

I honestly do not know how much it costs to make a typical album. But I can see what it costs to make a typical movie before it ever goes to DVD. And I know they are not going to get back their cost by selling is for only 10 cents above the physical cost of the DVD. How much is too much? You will have to decide what is too much and then not pay it or recieve the product.

Here is an example closer to home. I know you are associated with Ed Martin. What if he gave a seminar to a packed house and before the fees were collected all but two people ran out the door? Looking at what you wrote above, they would be justified. They did not take any money out of Ed's pocket. Do you still think he would be pretty mad? Do you think he would be willing to do many seminars under those conditions.

Here is another. Would you like to get some up to date essays from Masaaki Hatsumi on Bujinkan themes? Well, you never will. There used to be newsletters in English. In fact there were three. Bujin, Tetsuzan and Sanmyaku. All went belly up. Not enough people were getting them. Well... the were getting them. They just were not paying anyone involved with producing them any cash. They made photocopies. It was cheaper per page to go to Kinkos.

But even though AFAIK Hatsumi himself never got paid for what he wrote, the typesetters, editors and worthy translators all had to be paid, and that had to be spread out among a small group of subscribers on top of the physical costs of printing. The hope was that as more people subscibed, the cost would come down as it was spread out. But they never got the chance. Since no one was willing to pay for this 'nothing' as you view it, the newsletters all went bust. Now there is nothing current for you to get better informed.

Over the years I have seen people explain why they copied them instead of paying for them. They all try to justify it. I have seen people who wrote about incidents they saw while in bars say they did not have the money for a subscription. So they had money for beer but not for something that will help them be better practicioners? Some even tried sounding noble by saying something about getting as many people as possible close to the words of Hatsumi. But of course, now no one can get anything unless they read Japanese.

There are still some things in Japanese By Hatsumi that I have that has never been translated into English. My guess is that they never will. I do not see why Hatsumi would pay a proffesional translator the high fees they charge knowing that within a week after it comes out people will be scanning it and distributing it over the internet and he will never recoup his cost.

And it is because people like you believe that property is worthy of theft but mental effort is outside that rule.

 

[Cryozombie]

And it is because people like you believe that property is worthy of theft but mental effort is outside that rule.

The difference is that those things are not already being given to me free

Ive said a lot.

Let me simplify.

I believe that since I can LEGALY obtain those songs for FREE... It should not be illegal for me to download them, for free. Let me use Ed Martin as an example.... Attending a seminar is like attending a concert... I already said artists should be paid for that... however, At the last seminar of his I attended he told us what website we could go to to download video of his breathing excercises. (it was 100% free) If I went there and DLed the clips for personal use, but I made a copy for my instructor... would he have done somthing wrong, by taking the clip from me, because it was more convienent than going to the site and downloading it for himself?

My Moral Compass says no.

Now, If I went onto, say, Bearshare, and downloaded an entire Britney Spears album, aside from being stupid, I might be in the wrong. If I went there and not only downloaded the album, but then sold copies, i would DEFINATELY be in the wrong.

You see... My issue is not that their work has no value, but rather that the law only says its illegal to obtain it free if you do it <insert method> here. Thats worse than stupid.

C'mon, Are you saying to me that if I rent a Pay-per-Veiw of (oh heck its not availible yet buyt lets say) Revenge of The Sith from On Demand for 1.99 and record it that to DVD I am not hurting anyone but if I rent the DVD for 3.99 from Blockbuster and copy it I am?

Make the distinction for me? I dont see it.

Clearly the issue is the method, not the money.

 

[Don Roley]

You see... My issue is not that their work has no value, but rather that the law only says its illegal to obtain it free if you do it <insert method> here. Thats worse than stupid.

C'mon, Are you saying to me that if I rent a Pay-per-Veiw of (oh heck its not availible yet buyt lets say) Revenge of The Sith from On Demand for 1.99 and record it that to DVD I am not hurting anyone but if I rent the DVD for 3.99 from Blockbuster and copy it I am?

Well, you really do not have to understand why someone does not want you to do it. You merely have to respect their right as the owner of the imtellectual property. The section I originally quoted from you seems to indicate you do not give any credence to anything non- physical.

I would think that most of the reasons corporations do what they do is to make money. Pay per view tends to have some sort of sign running through it at some point that lets you know it is off of cable, DVDs do not. Maybe that is the reason.

And of course, it is the owners right to do with their product as they please. Ed Martin can sell things for profit, or he can give it away. I have an article on the Koga ryu on the internet that I let people post and access for free even though it took a long time to translate and write the thing. That is my choice.

People can't force you to accept their product. But if you do not like the price, do without. You may only want one song off of an album, but you have to buy the entire thing or do without. It is kind of like the rules of the orginization we belong to. A lot of people think that some of the rules are silly and will not follow them. But I think that since no one is forced to join us, that you either agree completely or walk out the door. It is the same here. You either go all the way or not at all and you don't justify breaking the rules with a story of how it is unfair. Maybe it is unfair that I can't teach certain friends of mine because they are recovering alchoholics- but that is the price for being a Bujinkan teacher.