Can Red Dawn be saved...

[Chris Parker]

Bill, serious question here.

Have you ever come across the concept of "suspension of disbelief"? I mean, it's kinda intrinsic to enjoying movies, you know.

 

[elder999]

Minor note: In the mid 80s, the idea of the Soviets and Cuba or other Latin American Communist countries conspiring to invade the US was quite plausible. Just as it's hard for those of us who didn't live through WWII or The Great Depression to understand some of the things that went on -- or those who didn't really grow up in the pre-9/11 world to get some of it, it's hard to realize how deeply entrenched the Cold War was in our psyche.

Of course, a year after Red Dawn we had this one:



:lol:

 

[elder999]

Bill, serious question here.

Have you ever come across the concept of "suspension of disbelief"? I mean, it's kinda intrinsic to enjoying movies, you know.

Abnormalities include verbosity, abrupt transitions, literal interpretations and miscomprehension of nuance, use of metaphor meaningful only to the speaker, auditory perception deficits, unusually pedantic, formal or idiosyncratic speech, and oddities in loudness, pitch, intonation, prosody, and rhythm.[SUP][/SUP]

.

 

[billc]

Yes, suspension of disbelief is exactly why North Korea is such a dumb idea. Yeah, you might believe at some point the Soviets might be able to invade parts of the U.S. or that China might be able to do it, if lots of bad things happened to the U.S. and a lot of good things happened for them. That allows you to suspend your disbelief that they could invade the U.S. and go on to enjoy the movie. North Korea in no way could achieve that end and hence, suspension of disbelief becomes more difficult, taking away some of the entertainment value of the movie. That is one of the jokes in the spoofs of horror movies. They always seperate, they never turn on the lights and so on are what make those movies function, but you have to suspend your disbelief in the stupidity of the characters actions in the light of a madman or monster picking the characters off, suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy the horror movie. Much like a fan of the Dark Knight who didn't like it because Bruce Wayne stopped being batman, and then went on to show a comic book image of a monologue by batman saying why he would never quit. We're talking about a movie about a billionaire who becomes a masked crimefighter, and does so successfully, without dying, that is suspension of disbelief.

 

[elder999]

Yes, suspension of disbelief is exactly why North Korea is such a dumb idea. Yeah, you might believe at some point the Soviets might be able to invade parts of the U.S. or that China might be able to do it, if lots of bad things happened to the U.S. and a lot of good things happened for them. That allows you to suspend your disbelief that they could invade the U.S. and go on to enjoy the movie. North Korea in no way could achieve that end and hence, suspension of disbelief becomes more difficult, taking away some of the entertainment value of the movie. .

How do you know? What do you know of the Korean people's Army's capabilities, or any of the other branches of their armed services? While their navy is laughable, they do have transport aircraft capable of reaching our shores. Couple this with their cyber-warfare ability, their penchant for asymmetrical warfare, their fanatacism, and the possible EMP scenario (in and of itself requiring a suspension of disbelief) and you have North Korea invading a U.S. without much internal command and control-as far, at least, as the scriptwriters and the average American is concerned-those with military or (ahem) other inside knowledge of U.S. preparations for such a scenario might know otherwise.

In fact, the real barrier to such a scenario is North Korea's lack of proper resources, and the management thereof-they might not even have the food for such an invasion, never mind the fuel.

None of which is really the point when it comes to a plot that is chiefly about a resistance force that consists of armed teenaged Americans.

 

[Makalakumu]

I was never concerned with an invasion, I just assumed we were all going to die in a hail of nukes.

What a lovely adolescence.

LOL! At least we had Megadeth!

 

[Omar B]

Minor note: In the mid 80s, the idea of the Soviets and Cuba or other Latin American Communist countries conspiring to invade the US was quite plausible. Just as it's hard for those of us who didn't live through WWII or The Great Depression to understand some of the things that went on -- or those who didn't really grow up in the pre-9/11 world to get some of it, it's hard to realize how deeply entrenched the Cold War was in our psyche.

Let me tell you about mid-80's in the Caribbean, since it's where I was born and grew up ... since you brought up Cuba. My father lived in an area named Kemps Hill in Clarendon. That name came from "Camp Hill" where a secret US facility still is, my cuz and I used to run around in the small caves when we used to go take out my grandparents cows. There was also the hidden airfield close by once used by the US. My dad and his buds drag raced there on Sundays. All this stuff dating back to the days post British independence (50 years as of last week). Non of this will show on the map. Kemps Hill is still on the map because people live there, the airfield is marked as apart of the Garvey Maceo High School(a gift from Cuba to Jamaica, along with 4 other high schools of the same design) campus grown wild. Because the Cubans were not fools, they knew where the Americans were so they built a friggin high school close enough that when active people thought it was apart of the school. LOL.

In the US most people worried about invasion. In the islands we had both US and Cuban influences on the same island all at the same time fighting each other very openly. On our own soil. Even there in such a small scale we saw that the commies didn't have what it takes. Red Dawn? Take the US?

The idea of invasion so close and OMG it could happen any time is an American fear. Every English and Spanish speaking Caribbean country lived with it.

The same can be said for most of the Caribbean islands (even Cuba a couple times) and I'm telling you this from someone who had been to all the island (cub scouts on the islands had our camps on different islands every year).

 

[Chris Parker]

Yes, suspension of disbelief is exactly why North Korea is such a dumb idea. Yeah, you might believe at some point the Soviets might be able to invade parts of the U.S. or that China might be able to do it, if lots of bad things happened to the U.S. and a lot of good things happened for them. That allows you to suspend your disbelief that they could invade the U.S. and go on to enjoy the movie. North Korea in no way could achieve that end and hence, suspension of disbelief becomes more difficult, taking away some of the entertainment value of the movie. That is one of the jokes in the spoofs of horror movies. They always seperate, they never turn on the lights and so on are what make those movies function, but you have to suspend your disbelief in the stupidity of the characters actions in the light of a madman or monster picking the characters off, suspension of disbelief in order to enjoy the horror movie. Much like a fan of the Dark Knight who didn't like it because Bruce Wayne stopped being batman, and then went on to show a comic book image of a monologue by batman saying why he would never quit. We're talking about a movie about a billionaire who becomes a masked crimefighter, and does so successfully, without dying, that is suspension of disbelief.

So that would be a "No", then, yeah?

Bill, suspension of disbelief is not "why North Korea is such a dumb idea", your lack of such an attribute is "why North Korea is such a dumb idea (to you)". Suspension of disbelief is when you take a film (or anything else designed for entertainment purposes, really), and agree to go along with certain precepts in order to enjoy it. In this case, it would be accepting the premise of North Korea as an invasion force, with Batman it's accepting the plausibility of the Bruce Wayne/Batman character, with Star Trek it's an acceptance of the entire universe created, and so on. Needing to find what you consider faults with everything, specifically to the point of trying to insist a particular agenda being present in each and every thing you see.

 

[billc]

No agenda on this one. The movie started out with China as the invader, which considering their growing influence, not too much of a stretch. Then, because of the Chinese market, they switched to tiny North Korea, having to redo all the insignia on Uniforms and vehicles after finishing the film. North Korea is not as plausible an invader as China could be, in this fantasy movie. Soooo, agreeing to go along with the premise is more difficult because of the task of suspending one's disbelief in the military capabilities of a future North Korea. Now, North Korea as part of the invasion force, sure, much like the "sympathetic" communist murderer in the original Red Dawn was from Cuba, fighting for the soviets. All by itself, it makes suspension of disbelief more difficult.

Here you go Chris...

[TD="align: right"] Main Entry:
[/TD]
[TD="align: left"] suspension of disbelief [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Part of Speech: [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] phr [/TD]

[TD="align: right"] Definition: [/TD]
[TD="align: left"] a willingness to suspend one's critical faculties and believe the unbelievable; sacrifice of realism and logic for the sake of enjoyment [/TD]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suspension+of+disbelief

And here some more from wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Not all authors believe that suspension of the disbelief adequately characterizes the audience's relationship to imaginative works of art. J. R. R. Tolkien challenges this concept in his essay "On Fairy-Stories", choosing instead the paradigm of secondary belief based on inner consistency of reality. Tolkien says that, in order for the narrative to work, the reader must believe that what he reads is true within the secondary reality of the fictional world. By focusing on creating an internally consistent fictional world, the author makes secondary belief possible. Tolkien argues that suspension of disbelief is only necessary when the work has failed to create secondary belief. From that point the spell is broken, and the reader ceases to be immersed in the story and must make a conscious effort to suspend disbelief or else give up on it entirely.

 

[Chris Parker]

Oh, Bill, I'm more than aware of what suspension of disbelief is... it's just that you really seem to be unable to grasp the concept, or at least unwilling to. It's a movie, Bill, where the US is saved by teens with high-powered guns... how about you watch it, then say if you enjoyed it or not? At this point it looks like you're just looking for reasons to complain about another Hollywood movie.

 

[granfire]

Oh, Bill, I'm more than aware of what suspension of disbelief is... it's just that you really seem to be unable to grasp the concept, or at least unwilling to. It's a movie, Bill, where the US is saved by teens with high-powered guns... how about you watch it, then say if you enjoyed it or not? At this point it looks like you're just looking for reasons to complain about another Hollywood movie.

He probably has an easier time with the Power Rangers.

 

[Omar B]

Squirrel meat makes you not able to suspend disbelief.

Just a movie. A movie non of us have seen but someone already gave a bad review.

I don't know, maybe living through the cold war in a region where the powers were fighting their proxy wars and playing their spy games makes me see how totally crazy the idea is. Guess you had to have been there.

 

[elder999]

billi? The reason the villains were mostly changed to North Koreans (the Chinese aren't completely out of it; it's some sort of coalition, which probably will make it easier to suspend disbelief) probably had more to do with MGM filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and getting reorganized with Chinese financing. Of course, the nearly $1.5 billion potential CHinese box-office might have had something to do with it, but I don't think they're going to go see it much in CHina, anyway, do you? :lfao:

Squirrel meat makes you not able to suspend disbelief.

Squirrel meat makes you not able to suspend disbelief.
.

?????? :lfao:

Squirrel is pretty damn tasty-between the ages of 11 and 14, I killed and cooked a whole lot of them, and had no problems suspending disbelief, sitting in the dark of a movie theater. 11-that was the year of Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, The French Connection, Fiddler on the Roof, and Shaft. Cabaret, Klute, and a real favorite, The Abominable Dr. Phibes The Beguiled, Bananas, The Andromeda Strain, and The Big Boss.

Nope. No problems suspending disbelief for any of those, except maybe the French Connection,-it was supposed to be based on fact, but even then I was suspicious of movie smuggling.......in a car, really? :lfao:

 

[Omar B]

LOL.

 

[billc]

I believe those are chipmunks, not squirrels. They are completely believable in their ability to send jabs of pain down the spinal cord of anyone over 6 years of age.

 

[elder999]

I believe those are chipmunks, not squirrels. They are completely believable in their ability to send jabs of pain down the spinal cord of anyone over 6 years of age.

Oh no, billi-that's a further sign of your confusion. Those aren't jabs of pain, they're shivers of pleasure. Uncontrollable laughter for going on 50 years now.

Some people just have no appreciation for the classics.:lfao:

(Yer right, though-a chipmunk is barely a snack for a red-tailed hawk, never mind a starving man....:lfao: )

Christmas in August:

:lfao: :lfao: :lfao: :lfao: