Can i do multiple martial arts at the same time???? Please help

[drop bear]

Like toughening knuckles and hands for punching. We now know that it has a lot to do with increasing bone density in the bones and cross-linking collagen in the the skin. But various other cultures had different ideas on what was causing it. The Chinese thought Chi/mystical body energy had something to with it and Europeans had theories all over the map such as similar to compacting wood or dirt through continuous hitting. They were wrong about the physiolocical causes but their training regiments still created hands with denser/tougher bones, tougher skin, and callouses.

They knew that if you punch stuff in this way, you get tougher hands. The why of it was wrong but the end result was still tougher hands to punch with.

Taking only the cases where that works out. Then yeah. The issue is with trying to justify woo woo magic. Means your evidence is off. Even if it is coincidentally right.

And these small mistakes create these massive false premises.

 

[lklawson]

Exactly. I knew you'd come around. But the actual point here (at least the point I was making before we started talking about searing steaks), has nothing to do with the results. The beliefs may be right, wrong, or somewhere in the middle.

Come around? That's where I was at to start with. Perhaps you just misunderstood my point?

 

[Steve]

Come around? That's where I was at to start with. Perhaps you just misunderstood my point?

I understand you wanted to talk about steak and chi, took a hard anti-reverse sear stance, and don't really know how steakhouses cook your meat. And that it took a while to walk you back around to the conversation. But we got there in the end.

 

[Steve]

Taking only the cases where that works out. Then yeah. The issue is with trying to justify woo woo magic. Means your evidence is off. Even if it is coincidentally right.

And these small mistakes create these massive false premises.

"60% of the time it works every time."

 

[lklawson]

I understand you wanted to talk about steak and chi, took a hard anti-reverse sear stance, and don't really know how steakhouses cook your meat. And that it took a while to walk you back around to the conversation. But we got there in the end.

Then you still missed the point. That makes me sad.

 

[Steve]

Then you still missed the point.

Your point was that sometimes through dumb luck, folk wisdom gets it right... sort of... sometimes... even if they don't understand it. You talked a lot about simple cause and effect. Your point wasn't subtle.

Have you ever ready any Hume?

That makes me sad.

You going to be okay?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Your point was that sometimes through dumb luck, folk wisdom gets it right... sort of... sometimes... even if they don't understand it.

Not quite, if I got it right. The idea he's putting forth is that for folk wisdom, the effect is known; ie: seared meat tastes good, or relaxing your muscles can deliver a stronger punch. Then people try to reverse engineer why that happens; ie: it holds in the juices, or relaxing increases your chi which causes more power.

And you can actively observe the end result to determine if the effect is correct, even if you can't determine the why (which is where folk wisdom comes in), you can determine that x should/shouldn't be done.

So the claim is that the end result of folk wisdom is also right, it's the in-between stuff that gets muddied. Rather than that folk wisdom is always random, and sometimes luck gets it right.

 

[super saiyan 4]

Hello there, i know this question is asked a lot, but i feel like i have a more specific version... kind of....

Basically, i have been doing karate for a while now, only a year or so, and im just over half way to black belt. I love kicking as well, so thought taekwondo might be a good option. Although, because some moves in karate and taekwondo are similar but not quite the same, would this interfere with my karate training? For example, the roundhouse kick or front kick are slightly different in these two styles i believe, so it may be a problem...


Any feedback is much appreciated as this is so frustrating to deal with...

Thanks a lot everyone

Better to focus on one if you're new but still possible in this case since both styles are similar.(you can do it with dramatically different styles as well)

 

[lklawson]

Your point was that sometimes through dumb luck, folk wisdom gets it right... sort of... sometimes... even if they don't understand it. You talked a lot about simple cause and effect. Your point wasn't subtle.

Have you ever ready any Hume?



You going to be okay?

I have puppies, coloring books, and a safe space.

...so no.

 

[Steve]

Not quite, if I got it right. The idea he's putting forth is that for folk wisdom, the effect is known; ie: seared meat tastes good, or relaxing your muscles can deliver a stronger punch. Then people try to reverse engineer why that happens; ie: it holds in the juices, or relaxing increases your chi which causes more power.

And you can actively observe the end result to determine if the effect is correct, even if you can't determine the why (which is where folk wisdom comes in), you can determine that x should/shouldn't be done.

So the claim is that the end result of folk wisdom is also right, it's the in-between stuff that gets muddied. Rather than that folk wisdom is always random, and sometimes luck gets it right.

Isn't that cause and effect? That is right sometimes? Through dumb luck? What did I miss? (genuine question, because I read what you say above, and it's just saying the same thing differently.)

 

[Gyakuto]

Yes you can, just like you can learn different types of dancing.

Will they ‘interfere‘ with the progress of each other… In my chosen art, the feet are kept facing straight ahead, parallel with each other, back heel slightly raised. Many Aikido and Karate practitioners find this very difficult to accomplish because of having a 45degree-angle-and-heel-planted-firmly drilled into them over the years. I am a third Dan in Wado Ryu Karate and I’ve never had an issue with the correct foot position for my current art. Thus it depends on your ability to adapt!

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yes you can, just like you can learn different types of dancing.

Will they ‘interfere‘ with the progress of each other… In my chosen art, the feet are kept facing straight ahead, parallel with each other, back heel slightly raised. Many Aikido and Karate practitioners find this very difficult to accomplish because of having a 45degree-angle-and-heel-planted-firmly drilled into them over the years. I am a third Dan in Wado Ryu Karate and I’ve never had an issue with the correct foot position for my current art. Thus it depends on your ability to adapt!

Back to the OP. I have trained in Tai Chi Chuan and “Gung Fu“ concurrently for 25 years. In my opinion one adds to the other. One is iron wrapped silk, the other is silk wrapped iron. They are synergistic and they inform one another.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Isn't that cause and effect? That is right sometimes? Through dumb luck? What did I miss? (genuine question, because I read what you say above, and it's just saying the same thing differently.)

Now look, you guys can’t just keep calling me a rube because of my caveman cooking technique unless you try my steaks and don’t like them. I may not understand why my feathers and rattles work, but when I call down the spirits of the steak gods, they answer.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Isn't that cause and effect? That is right sometimes? Through dumb luck? What did I miss? (genuine question, because I read what you say above, and it's just saying the same thing differently.)

At times like this, I wish I had a whiteboard so I could diagram what I'm talking about.

So there's two ways of thinking about cause and effect here-forwards and backwards. You're thinking forwards which I think is what's causing the confusion.

To a forward thinking: You have a cause and effect. So doing A causes B. If you don't do A, B won't happen, and if you do C, D might happen. People sometimes get lucky with guessing that B will happen from A, without really knowing. But you can easily test this and mess around with variations of A and see how that impacts things and get a pretty good idea of what's happening. That's how a lot of experiments are run nowadays.

Now for the backwards thinking: You have an idea that A caused B. Rather than continuing working out the "why" from the A standpoint, and putting in variations of it to see the different results and what comes up, you just kind of guess why it happened. This is where you end up with some folk wisdom and pseudo-science.

The thing is that it's not dumb luck, since they've already determined A causes B, they're just trying to fill in the reasoning afterwards. So for instance, relaxing your shoulder before you punch can cause a stronger punch. That is cause and effect, but it's not dumb luck that they figured that out. And it's always going to be right (assuming both ends of the equation are tangible), since if it doesn't reproduce the results, people will stop assuming it's correct. But then you get people making up reasons why it works, and that's the falsehoods, saying it works because it means your fourth chakra was aligned, or it's a sign you had control over your emotions, or something else.

A more concrete example would be the seasons. If you look at ancient greece, they knew that when winter came, crops died. They could pretty distinctly tell every time around november (or whenever crops die in greece), any crops would whither and die, and leaves would fall off the trees. So they have both cause and effect, but it's not dumb luck that they figured it out, it's pretty obvious. Then they decided they'd figure out why, and determined that one god kidnapped another goddesses kid, and keeps her for those months, and the mom goddess happens to be the goddess of the crop so she cries and mopes and everything dies. Rather than that the earth tilts and rotates. So they could figure out both cause and effect, and it's not dumb luck, but if someone came up to you and said that this guy kidnapped that girl and now my wheat won't grow, you'd probably call them crazy.

Hopefully that makes sense. It's one of those things in my head I can think about it perfectly, and if we were talking about it, I'd probably be able to explain, but tough over text.

 

[Steve]

Now look, you guys can’t just keep calling me a rube because of my caveman cooking technique unless you try my steaks and don’t like them. I may not understand why my feathers and rattles work, but when I call down the spirits of the steak gods, they answer.

I am quite sure I would LOVE steak prepared however you like to do it. There is nothing better than to eat food someone made for you.

 

[Steve]

At times like this, I wish I had a whiteboard so I could diagram what I'm talking about.

So there's two ways of thinking about cause and effect here-forwards and backwards. You're thinking forwards which I think is what's causing the confusion.

To a forward thinking: You have a cause and effect. So doing A causes B. If you don't do A, B won't happen, and if you do C, D might happen. People sometimes get lucky with guessing that B will happen from A, without really knowing. But you can easily test this and mess around with variations of A and see how that impacts things and get a pretty good idea of what's happening. That's how a lot of experiments are run nowadays.

Now for the backwards thinking: You have an idea that A caused B. Rather than continuing working out the "why" from the A standpoint, and putting in variations of it to see the different results and what comes up, you just kind of guess why it happened. This is where you end up with some folk wisdom and pseudo-science.

The thing is that it's not dumb luck, since they've already determined A causes B, they're just trying to fill in the reasoning afterwards. So for instance, relaxing your shoulder before you punch can cause a stronger punch. That is cause and effect, but it's not dumb luck that they figured that out. And it's always going to be right (assuming both ends of the equation are tangible), since if it doesn't reproduce the results, people will stop assuming it's correct. But then you get people making up reasons why it works, and that's the falsehoods, saying it works because it means your fourth chakra was aligned, or it's a sign you had control over your emotions, or something else.

A more concrete example would be the seasons. If you look at ancient greece, they knew that when winter came, crops died. They could pretty distinctly tell every time around november (or whenever crops die in greece), any crops would whither and die, and leaves would fall off the trees. So they have both cause and effect, but it's not dumb luck that they figured it out, it's pretty obvious. Then they decided they'd figure out why, and determined that one god kidnapped another goddesses kid, and keeps her for those months, and the mom goddess happens to be the goddess of the crop so she cries and mopes and everything dies. Rather than that the earth tilts and rotates. So they could figure out both cause and effect, and it's not dumb luck, but if someone came up to you and said that this guy kidnapped that girl and now my wheat won't grow, you'd probably call them crazy.

Hopefully that makes sense. It's one of those things in my head I can think about it perfectly, and if we were talking about it, I'd probably be able to explain, but tough over text.

I'm with you and appreciate the clarification. I mentioned David Hume earlier, and I think now that reference was too esoteric. In a nutshell, he wrote a lot about flipping the relation between cause and effect much as you describe above. I will be grossly oversimplifying the issue here, but he basically said, you witness the effect, and it creates a relationship with a perceived cause. "My steak is nice and juicy. Must be because I wore my feathered boa while I grilled it."

He proposed that the more you see those things together, the stronger your belief that they are causally related. The main thrust, though, is that the relationship is a function of the perceived connection... and like a rut in the road, the more we see that relationship, the deeper the mental ruts become, and so then the harder it is to break out of the ruts in the face of evidence that contradicts our belief in that causal relationship.

So, in a nutshell, I think I get it. Cause to effect, and also effect to a cause.

Regarding dumb luck, I mean, it might be if there isn't any critical thought or any kind of rigorous scientific process. I mean, the entire point here is I was cautioning against just blindly accepting conventional wisdom, because it may be completely wrong, and when it is right... if not blind luck, then at most coincidence.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I am quite sure I would LOVE steak prepared however you like to do it. There is nothing better than to eat food someone made for you.

Lol! I’m happy to provide should you and Mr. Lawson show up to humboldt county California. Just remember there is a two drink minimum at Chez Wing Woo Gar Steakhouse, and we require 25 minutes for the chocolate Soufflé.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

Ya dont start TKD karate is more better because you used both hands and feet .

 

[lklawson]

Lol! I’m happy to provide should you and Mr. Lawson show up to humboldt county California. Just remember there is a two drink minimum at Chez Wing Woo Gar Steakhouse, and we require 25 minutes for the chocolate Soufflé.

I'm out in Ohio and I don't get that way very often but I appreciate the invite.

As for drinks, I only consume frufru sissy stuff. The manliest stuff I consume is hard cider. If a real man would drink it (whiskey, scotch, etc.) I probably won't. I don't even like beer. Basically, if it doesn't have an umbrella in it, I probably won't like it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I'm out in Ohio and I don't get that way very often but I appreciate the invite.

As for drinks, I only consume frufru sissy stuff. The manliest stuff I consume is hard cider. If a real man would drink it (whiskey, scotch, etc.) I probably won't. I don't even like beer. Basically, if it doesn't have an umbrella in it, I probably won't like it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

What about mead?