Can a puncher beat a kicker?

[loki09789]

When I studied hard style karate, the idea was that blocks were strikes on the attacking limb. Similar in theory to FMA/CMA limb destruction training, but different in delivery. At the highest skill levels, some hard style arts actually claim that hard blocks are nerve attacks if delivered properly.

I think sometimes the soft style/hard style debate or rivalry creeps up because people don't really understand that there are elements of both styles on both sides of the discussion.

 

[MJS]

Another thought.....

With an equally skilled puncher and kicker paired off I would think the better blocker of the two would have the edge. You could throw a hundred lightning fast punches and kicks, if they don't land they are useless.

I have noticed this while sparring one of those very fast younger persons than myself. He must have thrown a ratio
of 10:1 at me yet I just kept blocking until I had the opportunity to land my one. Sometimes its good to economize.

I gotta go along with some of the other posters here, and disagree with this statement also. Sure, the punches and kicks are gonna make the most impact by landing on their targets, however, even things that are blocked will take a toll.

Look at a MT of NHB fight. A good example of this is Marco Ruas and Pual Varleasn (UFC7) Ruas literally wore down Paul with leg kicks. Of course, Paul sucked at blocking them, but they still took a toll.

Mike

 

[InvisibleFist]

Another thought.....

With an equally skilled puncher and kicker paired off I would think the better blocker of the two would have the edge. You could throw a hundred lightning fast punches and kicks, if they don't land they are useless.

I have noticed this while sparring one of those very fast younger persons than myself. He must have thrown a ratio
of 10:1 at me yet I just kept blocking until I had the opportunity to land my one. Sometimes its good to economize.

Interesting. I've had the opposite experience. I've found that it is impossible to win by playing a defensive game. I've always found it better to attack and make them react to me.

 

[InvisibleFist]

7*,

I agree, it does reverse who is on the receiving end of the tactic, but the tactic of attrition still stands. That was one thing I was alluding to with the simultaneous strike/block responses.

What do you mean by attrition?

 

[loki09789]

Attrition is a strategic/tactical approach to fighting that focuses on breaking down the opponents fight ability/resources. Fighting with the goal of wearing down the opponent faster than they can rebuild/recover.

Individually, attrition would be attacking hard with the intention of punishing whatever you hit - your opponents block, or the target. Either way the guy/girl will have to take the punishment. Over time, he/she will take more punishment than they can recover from.

7*'s point about using redirection/soft blocking and then attacking the attackers exposed limb is another application of attrition.

 

[donald]

%-} I firmly believe that a puncher can beat a good kicker. A seasoned puncher can get inside the "kick zone", and just go to town. After all the hands are quicker, and a whole lot easier to use. Anyone who can't understand this. Is just a paper tiger waitin to be "torn".

:asian:

 

[loki09789]

Donald,
I would agree with this, only because you are creating a disparity of skill/experience when you focus on the puncher being seasoned, implying that the kicker isn't. Experience wins out in this case.

If the shoe is on the other foot and the kicker has dealt with more punchers and more seasoned that the puncher, he will have the experience that will give him the edge.

I sparred with a very skilled boxer, who was my roommate in the service at the time, because he felt the way you did - unilaterally, the puncher will win. His stance was that MArtists were ALL too soft on real contact training and that ALL boxers could take ANY MArtist.

We agreed on the rules, sparred, he took one round house to the thigh and went down like a ton of bricks... I had dealt with punchers and was not one of his assumed soft MArtists, he had never dealt with kickers...

Of course, as a whole training style, he was far more conditioned that I, more powerful a hand striker than I, and much better at evasive movement than I. I learned alot from training with him, and he learned from me as well. Believe me I took my licks in later sparring matches because he was gaining experience. But if that was for real, he would have been done.

 

[donald]

loki09789,

No what I responded to was the "kicker "vs" puncher" scenerio. Not martial artist versus boxer. I do believe that a m.a. with equal time in training as a experienced bxr. Could best the boxer, but given the latitude of ring rules though. I would probably put my lira on the bxr..

:asian:

 

[Zepp]

You'd think so, but I have been to a national tournament that allowed kicks and punches, and I saw two teenage gold glove contenders take everyone else out. It didn't matter if the opponent was Muay Thai, American Kickboxing or whatever. These two kids rolled over everyone. I personally think it was the level at which boxing in this country has reached. None of the kickers were amature or inexperienced, they just got out classed.

Well, there always are exceptions.

 

[OULobo]

I went to the Arnold Classic this Sat. and I had a friend in the San Shao matches. During one of the fights a well seasoned kicker was up against a pretty good puncher. They were exact opposites. The kicker left his hands down and only really had one punch that he used in his arsenal and comparison the puncher only used the occational round kick then reverted to boxing. The match was very interesting. The kicker would just pelt away at the puncher for a while and then the puncher would get inside and attack, but the kicker had great movement and would avoid the punches until he could get out of range. Then the whole pattern would start again. The puncher had really good conditioning and defense, so he lasted all the rounds. Not many, if any, kicks were getting through and he was holding up well, but he was getting tired. Neither one could get any take-downs. Other than that match, the punchers, with occational kicking, seemed to win.

 

[OULobo]

%-} I firmly believe that a puncher can beat a good kicker. A seasoned puncher can get inside the "kick zone", and just go to town. After all the hands are quicker, and a whole lot easier to use. Anyone who can't understand this. Is just a paper tiger waitin to be "torn".

:asian:

I generally agree, but as Zepp said there are always exceptions, I've met some "paper tigers" from Thailand that could tear up most people in the US, without ever using their hands.

 

[KennethKu]

"Can a puncher beat a kicker?"

LMAO. This is like asking if the shotgun is mighter than the rifle. The answer is obvious. It DEPENDS.

 

[Tony]

I agree it does depend on the individual skill more than the style of fighting. I was watching a K1 match between a boxer and a kickboxer. The kickboxer won because he used a lot of low kicks and because the boxer wasn't used to defending against kicks he lost and his legs were in a lot of pain.
+

 

[InvisibleFist]

"Can a puncher beat a kicker?"

LMAO. This is like asking if the shotgun is mighter than the rifle. The answer is obvious. It DEPENDS.

Its a good comparison. The thing is this...tournament fights always begin with the fighters far away...in the kicking range. There is enough space that a kicker can control the distance.

I'd say the man with the rifle will beat the man with the shotgun EVERY TIME if the battle is held with three hundred yards away.

 

[moving target]

except if you are fighting for a knockout it is rather hard to knock someone out with a kick from a distance unless your opponant has never faught a kicker before.

 

[loki09789]

loki09789,

No what I responded to was the "kicker "vs" puncher" scenerio. Not martial artist versus boxer. I do believe that a m.a. with equal time in training as a experienced bxr. Could best the boxer, but given the latitude of ring rules though. I would probably put my lira on the bxr..

:asian:

Donald,

I was using the boxing story as an example of a punching artist, not necessarily boxing vs MA. I don't understand what you mean about the lattitude of ring rules though. As far as boxer vs. AMArtist, in general, I would go with the boxer because of the type and goal of training which is very focused: Hit hard, condition for getting hit, block/evade hits, be in shape to recover fast. Most AMArtists and programs, at least in the USA are geared more towards skill development and technical perfection.

If you are referring to contact levels or clinching and such, as a Self Defense focused MArstist and not a point tourney artist I would have to agree that an AMA who trained technically and tactically to the level of intensity/fitness/conditioning as even an amature boxer would be very formitable on the street IF the training was focused on Self Defense and not Ring Rules.

 

[MJS]

except if you are fighting for a knockout it is rather hard to knock someone out with a kick from a distance unless your opponant has never faught a kicker before.

If you go back to the Extreme Fighting, you'll see the match with Mo Smith and Conan. Smith nailed him with a bunch of low kicks and then shot a high one up and KO'd Conan.

Mike

 

[donald]

IF the training was focused on Self Defense and not Ring Rules

My point exactly! If the match was outside of the ring. Then I think MOST,(see not all), well trained m.a.s' would have a very good chance at besting the bxr.. Thanks for the mannered response. Very refreshing indeed!!!!

:asian:

 

[MJS]

Well, any time that there are rules involved, that is going to have an effect on someone. If there are no rules, then I'd have to go with the more skilled person or the one who gets the best shot in first and then continues.

Mike

 

[loki09789]

IF the training was focused on Self Defense and not Ring Rules

My point exactly! If the match was outside of the ring. Then I think MOST,(see not all), well trained m.a.s' would have a very good chance at besting the bxr.. Thanks for the mannered response. Very refreshing indeed!!!!

:asian:

I would disagree about the boxer being beat by an MAist, all things being equal, but that is for another topic discussion. I don't want to steer this punch/kick topic into stylistic comparisons.

Not to qualify the above, I have worked out with and trained with some VERY scary kickers that could pull it off in the real SD world as well as the ring. Again, the point of training and experience were the reason they were successful NOT the tool they were using.