Buying a Mook Jong wooden dummy

[8009]

Well, some people who aren't retards still think punching it like a heavy bag is a good idea, not because they're stupid but because they don't know any better. And most of the time they were not self-taught, they were created either by someone who already had martial experience and passed it down, or by a conglomerate of people working together to create the style/art/techniques. These people may or may not have had official experience, but multiple people work better than one in something like this. In an instance where it was self-taught by a founder who never had a teacher, the style was either evolved by the disciples through each generation before it was actually formidable, or never became a known and formidable art.

So you more or less agree with me when i say that "correctness" depends on who is the judge and jury of it?

 

[8009]

I think the reason you aren't getting answers to your original question is that there really is no answer for it. You start by asking for very specific specifications for the dummy, but then say that you have no real interest in learning Wing Chun or any other martial art. It sounds like you don't really need the dummy to help you practice any specific martial art, you just want a cool looking toy for your basement gym. Which is fine, but as was said before, if that is the case then the specs don't matter. Just buy whichever one you like the best.


I'm sure you didn't mean to come of as disrespectful, but that is the problem with text conversations. Your intended attitude doesn't always come through. Intended or not, you did sound arrogant and disrespectful.

You tell someone that their advice is useless, you suggest that the members of this forum (many of whom have a ton of experience; I assume this is why you chose to ask them your question) are locked into an archaic way of thinking, and you state that you intend to learn a complex martial art through books and DVDs (which implies that what they've spent years working hard to achieve isn't really all that difficult).

I don't mean to attack you here, just point out that your attitude can easily be interpreted as "I don't need your advice, just answer my damn questions". If you aren't receiving the answers you want, it may be that the question didn't lend itself to an easy answer. Or maybe people aren't inclined to be helpful when they feel insulted.

English is not my mother tongue so maybe this played a role in my sayings being regarded as disrespectful. I just have my own point of view.

I am not judging the experienced members' way of thinking, they obviously reached their level, locked into that way of thinking. I could do that too, its the sure way to go, i am not saying otherwise. I am even jealous of their level, i just don't have the time, etc. to do it. So i just stated my own way of thinking (which may or may not get me far) and asked away hoping to get the answers i want. I maybe will get them, i maybe will not. So be it.

So its true, what i am saying is "i don't think in the mainstream way about martial arts, just would like some certain answers from anyone willing to answer them". If someone desires to be helpful, ok, if not, ok. I ll go my way, either way.

As for the complexity of Wing Chun, i actually have been drawn to this martial art while researching other martial arts for pressure points, "lethal" types of EMERGENCY empty hand self defence (throat-eyes-face,etc) and i saw this close combat martial art and the dummy it uses. It appeared to me to be limited, but effective in close combat, therefore the interest. I now see it uses the center point theory, and a sophisticated way of thinking about blocking, etc. Ok, interesting.

 

[8009]

8009,

Purity??
No, has nothing to do with purity.
As you have stated, it is about being effective; Effective in training time, effective in function, and that effectiveness must be against lower as well as higher skilled opponents. However, it isn’t about what one feels or believes is effective. It is about what Is Effective.
I also will use whatever I need from where ever but not until I have researched and trained it to understand it. Just because I am able to perform does not mean I have it or understand it.

I agree with you about martial systems, for the most part, are about training. Should be and not about ‘style’; for everyone is style of their own. However, training incorrectly only re-enforces incorrect structure, position, force, vectors, shearing, timing, range, and a host of other functions. Sure you may be somewhat better than someone who doesn’t train. Better physical shape but your understanding and ability to function properly and effectively in a high stress situation against a highly aggressive and effective attacker will be questionable.
So, you certainly can go about it your way, on your own and learn…, the hard ineffective way. Or, you can heed the advice of those who KNOW and learn effectively, as what you state you want to be.

Good Luck in your training

Some food for thought on the dummy. Why are the arms made the way they are? Why the arm shanks and the holes square. (it is much easier to drill a round hole vs a square) there is movement in the arms, why? Why are the arms the length they are? Why are the arms tapered? Why are the arms angled? How high are the arms in relation to the practitioner? What is the distance between the upper arms and the middle arm and the leg? Why that distance? Why it the dummy body the diameter it is? These are but some of many questions to answer to have an understanding of what are some of the energies associated with training on the mook jong and why.

The dummy is not just a block of wood with pegs sticking out to represent arms and a leg. There is a purpose for every aspect of the dummy and effective training and function.

Why are the arms made the way they are?
Why the arm shanks and the holes square. (it is much easier to drill a round hole vs a square)
There is movement in the arms, why?
Why are the arms the length they are?
Why are the arms tapered?
Why are the arms angled?
How high are the arms in relation to the practitioner?
What is the distance between the upper arms and the middle arm and the leg?
Why that distance?
Why it the dummy body the diameter it is?



Ok, can i have the full answers to those now?

I m kidding, i understand you re giving me hints. Ok, better than no answer at all i guess.

 

[WingChunIan]

8009, good luck with your search for a dummy. I would honestly suggest that you buy the cheapest one that you can find. The dimensions of the dummy and the feedback (ie springiness) only matter if you intend to study Wing Chun and learn to use the dummy correctly. As your posts state that you intend to do neither the shape, construction and materials etc of the dummy will make no difference. As training tools go the dummy is fairly limited unless you know what you're doing and it will be an expensive coat stand

 

[sihing_steve]

Ok, thanks for the insight, although i disagree at some points, obviously. What is correct for my muscles is a proper reaction that will possibly save my life, my health, my dignity, at some unfortunate unwelcome event during my life. That reaction may or may not be a Wing Chun reaction. The end result of that reaction is what will count. Not which martial art will it belong to.

I m not saying there is something wrong with a specific ultra-correct Wing Chun reaction. Again, i m just stating my point of view..

Well stated. And you are correct, you should not have to put a name on it.

So without a name attached to it, a wooden dummy cannot punch you like a real person can and that is where you learn proper reflexes.

Again, best of luck on your journey. I think you will do just fine.