Bunkia?

[kydaviddoyle]

Hi,

2 questions.

1 - what is the Korean word that equals bunkia?

2 - What is a good source (web, book, ect.) for bunkia? I'm mainly looking for sources dealing withPyong 2?

Thank you for your time.

David

 

[MBuzzy]

Please see this thread, as there is an extensive discussion there.

In Summary
Boonhae - Dismantle or take apart. Seems to be the best translation for Bunkai
Haesul - In depth commentary
Haesoek - Interpretation

As for a source regarding the boonhae, I would look up Iain Abernathy, he is quite the expert in terms of Bunkai and interpretation. He is a Japanese practitioner, but if you are looking for Pyang ahn interpretations....those forms come from Japan, so that would work for you.

 

[kydaviddoyle]

Thank You

 

[rick_tsdmdk]

Bunkai I believe is Bun Seok

Also, two books I recommend are The Way of Kata, and Shotokan's Secrets.

 

[MBuzzy]

Rick,

I'm curious where you found this term? I have heard Bunhae and Haeseok, but never Bunseok.

 

[rick_tsdmdk]

Bun seok is a common term - literally I believe it means to take apart. Bunkai means to disassemble. So they are the same term.

 

[MBuzzy]

I only ask because there seem to be quite a few interpretations of which is the best translation for Bunkai. Unfortunately, I only speak Korean, not Japanese, so I'm not capable of going from Japanese to Korean.

The word 분해 (Bunhae) means to dismantle or take apart. I had never heard Bunseok used in that way. 분석 (bunseok) does mean analysis (분석하다 meaning analyze), but it hadn't come up in our previous discussions as people having used that term.

So the word Bunseok could be added to the list of possible translations, meaning analyze.

Just curious where you had heard the term - if it was standard practice in your organization or if you had it in print somewhere or if there was a senior member who used the term. Thanks!

 

[howard]

I'm not sure about this, but it appears that it is bun seok.

Here are the Chinese characters:

[FONT=&quot]分析[/FONT]

According to wikipedia, these characters are pronounced "bun seok" in Korean and "bun kai" in Japanese. In both languages they mean to analyze, decompose, etc., a process.

Hope this helps.

 

[MBuzzy]

Howard,

Does Wikipedia have a Hanja translation tool? I wasnt' seeing the Hanja translation. I'm having a really hard time finding good reference materials for Hanja....Plenty for Korean, Plenty for Chinese....very few for Hanja.

I didn't see any Korean, Hangul, or Hanja on the linked Wikipedia page, just the chinese and Japanese.

Thanks! I hadn't thought of going back to the chinese....duh. Good thinking! Thank you!

 

[DMcHenry]

For a while I had only heard of hyung sinchong, but while translating a Korean version of Hwang Kee's book on the Yuk Ro & Ship Dan Gun forms I saw "bunseok", bunhae being another word commonly used. Ever since I've used bunseok as the Korean version of bunkai.

 

[MBuzzy]

For a while I had only heard of hyung sinchong, but while translating a Korean version of Hwang Kee's book on the Yuk Ro & Ship Dan Gun forms I saw "bunseok", bunhae being another word commonly used. Ever since I've used bunseok as the Korean version of bunkai.

Sir,

Someone mentioned in the other thread that they had used the term 신청 - or Shinch'ong. I believe that this was probably the result of a "bad translation," that term means application for a passport or visa, as in, a paperwork application. It seems that on another analysis, Bunseok may be the best word, as it means application.

I find it interesting in linguistics terms, that the words Bunseok, bunhae, haesul, and haeseok all have similar meanings.

I would LOVE to have the opportunity to directly translate the Daekahm or the Hangul Volume 2....I have been searching for them for 2 years and recently got outbid on e-bay. My instructor has them, but I think that he realizes their value and never lets them out of his sight.

 

[DMcHenry]

It was interesting but VERY slow translating (and I only got through very little - just seeing if I could do it). I didn't have the full book, but a GM was explaining something to me and showing me how similar the forms were, so I tried to see if I could translate a small example of it.

 

[rick_tsdmdk]

Sin Chong means application, but it refers to an actual application, like a paper to be filled out.

Some where some one looked up the word application in a Korean-Engklish dictionary and found sin chong and that spread like wildfire with no one challenging what it meant.

Of course, it didn't help that most Korean schools have no bunkai/bunseok knowledge, and therefore didn't know the difference.

 

[DMcHenry]

It's been a while, but I believe I did ask a Korean years ago when I first heard it. Maybe that's why he said it didn't make sense to just say sinchong, but should be said hyung sinchong. I believe it did mean 'application', where bunseok/bunhae meant 'analysis', similar to bunkai.

 

[B.Redfield]

"but if you are looking for Pyang ahn interpretations....those forms come from Japan, "

Okinawa to Japan to Korea

 

[howard]

Howard,

Does Wikipedia have a Hanja translation tool? I wasnt' seeing the Hanja translation...

Hi,

Not that I know of... what I did was look up both "bunseok" and "bunkai" in wikipedia, and both entries had the same Chinese characters. So I deduced that the hangul equivalent of "bunkai" must be "bunseok".

Thanks! I hadn't thought of going back to the chinese....duh. Good thinking! Thank you!

Cheers... glad you found this helpful.

To add a thought, something I've noticed over the years is that there seem to be variations of even the most basic terms in Korean from one style to another, and even within styles, from one kwan to another. Ive seen different terms for things like the names of strikes and stances. I don't know nearly enough hangul to be able to explain the differences.

 

[MBuzzy]

I think that part of it depends on exactly what idea you are trying to get across. Remember that when translating languages, words do not always go directly from one to the other. Where we have one word to represent a few different ideas, another language may have 10 words with slightly different connotations. By the same token, one word in another language may not have a direct translation to another. Bunkai is a very specific martial arts term in Japanese....therefore, we are trying to assign native Korean words as a translation to this word, therefore, there is possibly more than one "right" answer, depending on the idea that you want to get across.

As I said, bunseok, bunhae, haesul, and haeseok all have similar meanings; any of which could be a translation for the word Bunkai, depending on the specific idea you want to get across.

There are not many "organic" Korean martial arts words, they are mostly borrowed from Chinese. In fact, Bunkai is ALSO borrowed from Chinese, into Kanji....then into Korean, so we're talking about a 3 level translation....

To add a thought, something I've noticed over the years is that there seem to be variations of even the most basic terms in Korean from one style to another, and even within styles, from one kwan to another. Ive seen different terms for things like the names of strikes and stances. I don't know nearly enough hangul to be able to explain the differences.

True, I have noticed the same thing. Part of it is the issue of translation from Chinese to Korean (Hanja/Hanmun), part of it is trying to use native Korean words, part of it is some of the older masters simply making up words for techniques. I've noticed a lot of that in my research and translations. It definately makes things difficult and is the main reason that I'm always in search of a good Hanja/Hanmun resource. But that is a whole different discussion.

 

[howard]

Remember that when translating languages, words do not always go directly from one to the other. Where we have one word to represent a few different ideas, another language may have 10 words with slightly different connotations. By the same token, one word in another language may not have a direct translation to another...

Yep, I know that well... translating is a major part of my job.

(But not to or from Korean.)

 

[tsdmgk1336]

Heres some books you might want to look @


Pressure point fighting
By Rick Clark
ISBN# 0-8048-3217-X
Found @ Borders.com

Shihan-Te
The Bunkai of Karate Kata
By Darrell Craig
ISBN# 1-886969-84-4
Found @ Borders.com as well
thats just for starters..

 

[astrobiologist]

Bunkia is not the word you're looking for. It is Bunkai.

I have no idea about the Korean translation, but if you're looking for some rgeat info or maybe even a good start in figuring out the bunkai for Tang Soo Do techniques and forms, then you should try getting in contact with Master Jay S. Penfil. He's a great practitioner and is teaching me more than I ever thought I would know when it comes to movement and technique.

Also, there is Master Iain Abernethy, from the UK. He's a Wado Ryu practitioner, so he doesn't know as much about Tang Soo Do, but the principles and techniques are almost all the same. He has a lot of information on his website about applications of the martial arts.

Hope this helps!