I have only had one Kenpo Instructor (an "EPAK" Teacher, Tugi Papatiitele you have fallen off the radar) but was lucky enough to be able to study under him for several years but one of the things I am curious about is the breakfalls and rolls of other martial arts; are they found in EPAK? We never did any in my class,.... at all. Is this standard (just curious)?
Breakfalls and rolls
- Thread starter Hudson69
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We have them in our self defense techniques. Encounter With Danger and Leap From Danger have this included. I believe both techniques offer very good lessons that can help your survivability.
At a tennis tournament recently there was a woman who fell on the court and hurt her head because she did not know how to fall or roll. Self defense is not only learning to defend against another person. Years ago a friend of mine who had a studio here in O.C. had his daughter thrown into a car and kidnapped. She was able to jump out of the car while it was moving and escape. Because of her ability to roll when she hit the pavement she was not seriously injured.
Bob White
At a tennis tournament recently there was a woman who fell on the court and hurt her head because she did not know how to fall or roll. Self defense is not only learning to defend against another person. Years ago a friend of mine who had a studio here in O.C. had his daughter thrown into a car and kidnapped. She was able to jump out of the car while it was moving and escape. Because of her ability to roll when she hit the pavement she was not seriously injured.
Bob White
MattJ
Brown Belt
I was taught and taught them in my kenpo tenure. They were on our basics charts, and in the Infinite Insights series, if I remember correctly.
astrobiologist
Brown Belt
I don't train in kenpo, but if you want to include rolls and breakfalls you can pretty easily throw them in your warm-up. They're a great way to loosen and strengthen the body. I will always include rolls and falls when preparing for a ground fighting class, but sometimes when I teach stand-up classes I still throw in some rolls during the warmup. Maybe I'll have the students jog some laps with me and then drop and roll while running or maybe we'll do a set or two of rolls up the floor.
Your teacher taught to his strenghths. I would explore breakfalls and rolls. One day you may be swept or knocked off balance. There is no discrace in being thrown, only if you get hurt is there discrace to be felt.
Sean
IMO, rolling and breakfalls are very important and should be taught and practiced on a regular basis. I've had 3 real life falls, on the ground, 2 of which were on asphalt, and walked away with no major injuries aside from being sore for a day or so. Other than that, I fell, and got right back up. 
kenpo3631
Black Belt
Dionysianexile
Yellow Belt
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My school doesnt spend much time teaching the rolls or falls other then in the two techniques that teach them. I was lucky enough to take an aikido class at my university for a semester that had us rolling across a large wrestling mat at the beginning of a class. Those rolls just happened to come in handy one day when I went flying off my skateboard onto some asphalt. I think the few people who saw me were a little freaked out because as I went flying I turned into a dive roll and sprang right back up. Very practical thing to know how to do!
Breakfast and rolls. Yum.
I feel that teaching breakfalls and rolls are very important, especially when many of the techniques have a take down of some sort. Learning how to protect oneself when being a good training partner also allows you to train more realistically.
Simplest reason to teach falls & rolls: reality.
Most people don't stand a really big chance of being assaulted -- especially after college age or so. Maybe mid 20s...
Almost everybody is going to fall down one day. It's pretty much a given.
Which self defense skill is most likely to be needed by most people: breaking various holds and grips, punching/kicking, or not getting hurt when falling?
Most people don't stand a really big chance of being assaulted -- especially after college age or so. Maybe mid 20s...
Almost everybody is going to fall down one day. It's pretty much a given.
Which self defense skill is most likely to be needed by most people: breaking various holds and grips, punching/kicking, or not getting hurt when falling?
Doc
Senior Master
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Buddy if mine rolled out fo laying his bike down on the freeway at 55 mph. There's an illusion when you drop from 55 to 30...it feels like you've stopped. So he stood up. Only then did he actually get injured.
As for myself...some of my most grateful breakfalling moments have been to prevent myself from face-planting after missing a step, tripping down a staircase, and so on. Certainly not "cool" martial arts encounters, but talk about a relief.
As for myself...some of my most grateful breakfalling moments have been to prevent myself from face-planting after missing a step, tripping down a staircase, and so on. Certainly not "cool" martial arts encounters, but talk about a relief.
It's not teaching 'em to fall down where you make the money... That comes rather naturally. (Especially if you choose to use banana peels to weave your mats...)Yeah, but how much money can you make teaching people how to fall down?
The money's in selling them the featherbeds to land on! :EG:
And the uber-secret anti-gravity technique that makes falling safe... :wink:
girlbug2
Master of Arts
Lol yeah, just seeing this thread makes me hungry!
Sigung LaBounty
White Belt
DANG! I haven't written on here in quite a while, I feel like I should say something really succinct...... Nope, got nothing!!
So, I require falling. Not in the sense that we do it every class, but that we do it often enough that the student sees and feels the other end of the spectrum. As Professor White has said, Kenpo contains takedowns, strikedowns and just people who'll knock your knickers into the dirt. I require, as do other Kenpo teachers to "feel the ride" (As Namjura, my Judo teacher, would say) so as to understand the dynamic from attacker/defender standpoint. In addition to that NO ONE LIKES TO GO TO THE GROUND ALL THAT MUCH, IF EVER!!! So I find that it is a confidence builder as well for those who feel only the "vertical ritual" of combat and of Kenpo.
To be sure its an acquired taste, but its a toughener, as well as great warmup for class. Once you've been tossed upon your keester, you're ready for anything.
One camp I ran, I also included rappelling for Brown and Black off a two story building. That's another confidence builder for sure and a story for another time. Hey, its your fight and your training for that fight, prepare for everything if you can...
So, I require falling. Not in the sense that we do it every class, but that we do it often enough that the student sees and feels the other end of the spectrum. As Professor White has said, Kenpo contains takedowns, strikedowns and just people who'll knock your knickers into the dirt. I require, as do other Kenpo teachers to "feel the ride" (As Namjura, my Judo teacher, would say) so as to understand the dynamic from attacker/defender standpoint. In addition to that NO ONE LIKES TO GO TO THE GROUND ALL THAT MUCH, IF EVER!!! So I find that it is a confidence builder as well for those who feel only the "vertical ritual" of combat and of Kenpo.
To be sure its an acquired taste, but its a toughener, as well as great warmup for class. Once you've been tossed upon your keester, you're ready for anything.
One camp I ran, I also included rappelling for Brown and Black off a two story building. That's another confidence builder for sure and a story for another time. Hey, its your fight and your training for that fight, prepare for everything if you can...
Ukemi!...I love ukemi!
I teach them at every class, because you could not survive the techniques we do at class without them. Very important part of our training.
If you want some advice you should incorporate them into your training as well, as others have said, if not only for the martial arts techniques that require them but, they also come in handy at the most unsuspecting times. While riding by mc I had some lady turn left in front of me and I went over the bars, jugaried a couple of times and stood up. I recieved a leg laceration (from the mirror) that required 7 sutures and that was it. Had I not had the confidence to leave the bike and jugari my injuries would have been much worse.
Michael
I teach them at every class, because you could not survive the techniques we do at class without them. Very important part of our training.
If you want some advice you should incorporate them into your training as well, as others have said, if not only for the martial arts techniques that require them but, they also come in handy at the most unsuspecting times. While riding by mc I had some lady turn left in front of me and I went over the bars, jugaried a couple of times and stood up. I recieved a leg laceration (from the mirror) that required 7 sutures and that was it. Had I not had the confidence to leave the bike and jugari my injuries would have been much worse.
Michael
BLACKDESTINY09
White Belt
Sigung is absolutly right. On the other hand at what Mr. Chapel said "How much money can you make teaching someone to fall down", we all know running a martial arts school you need to make money for an honest living but how you worded you comment explains alot about you and your teaching methods (Turn Off) with all do respect senior. Wouldn't you want your students to be more well rounded in all aspects of self defense or let me not teach them how to roll or to break a fall cause i will be loosing my money.
Back to the basics
" I would like to state that it is an honor Sigung Labounty to be in this forum with you"
Back to the basics
" I would like to state that it is an honor Sigung Labounty to be in this forum with you"
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
It might be worth it to learn a little more about Mr. Chapel's teaching values prior to calling him out. Methinks you might be missing one of the legs you're hoping to stand on.
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