Boxing as a Martial Art

[Drose427]

Things like head movement and other strategies within the boxing ring which doesn't translate to a streetfight where I can get elbowed,kneed, kicked, taken down in the process.

A lot of that will translate if you're doing it properly

The things that don't translate directly (some ducks and leans) will if you adjust the movement a little more. I.e. stepping out while ducking under, so even if someone brings an attack straight down it'll miss your head.

 

[Transk53]

Things like head movement and other strategies within the boxing ring which doesn't translate to a streetfight where I can get elbowed,kneed, kicked, taken down in the process.

I wouldn't get hung up on this street fight angle too much. A decent jab will usually make one of those numpty's take notice. Guess you could meet a Muay Thai practitioner or something, but probably very very rare in that environment, if at all. Yeah okay you might get kicked if you go down. Actually you probably will, but more likely face softies and ill executed swingers. A grudge match probably, a street fight nah. The glory ain't the glory arena a lot of people think they are. But yeah, knowing you can put someone away and then walk away without injury is feeling that conveys itself back. Just my take on it

 

[drop bear]

Things like head movement and other strategies within the boxing ring which doesn't translate to a streetfight where I can get elbowed,kneed, kicked, taken down in the process.

They are mostly things you would add to boxing rather than take away.

Otherwise the differences will matter more in a ring fight of a different code where a person will be mindful of how to,say,catch you with a knee while you duck under a punch.

Rather than a self defence where they are probably not going to be skilled enough to make that work for them.

The self defence boxing is the sport boxing.

 

[Mephisto]

Self defence does not concern me. I know what will happen to my hands if I were to throw a right hand cross with no gloves on. Not to be recommended, unless there is no other option. Always good to have it of course.

Do you? Breaking your hand is a risk, but with any hand strike you risk damaging yourself. I've unloaded some power punches in the $treetz, no shattered hands! Just some soreness the next day. I've heard countless example of guys who have broken hands in fights and continued. Some athletes have fought whole matches with broken hands. I'd say it's worth the risk and a small price to pay for your safety. Most martial arts teach to punch, if debilitating hand injury were such a guarantee punches probably wouldn't be so common. Man up!

Yes they shatter like glass.

You'd better be kidding!

Things like head movement and other strategies within the boxing ring which doesn't translate to a streetfight where I can get elbowed,kneed, kicked, taken down in the process.

You can also get punched in the head. Head movement is one of the greatest benefits to boxing training. Someone post the video of the guy getting random people off the street to punch him in the head. It might not be the best thing to do if you're fighting experienced kickers, but that's not likely on the $treetz.

 

[drop bear]

You'd better be kidding!

Yeah I am kidding.

 

[Steve]

A little late to the game, but it seems like there's a distinction being drawn between boxing as a sport and boxing as a martial art. I think western boxing is a martial art AND it can be trained for self defense. But that the two are not the same thing.

Self defense application is often associated with martial arts training, but there are examples of martial arts that have zero application for self defense. Or at least are very impractical. For example, Kyudo is a very impractical style for self defense, but few would suggest it is not a martial art.

 

[VT_Vectis]

Self defence does not concern me. I know what will happen to my hands if I were to throw a right hand cross with no gloves on. Not to be recommended, unless there is no other option. Always good to have it of course.

Mate, get yourself "Championship Fighting; Explosive Punching and Effective Defense" by Jack Dempsey, a great fighter and a great man. In it he tells you exactly how you should be punching when not using gloves. He also explains why this method works and why the boxers fracture happens when ungloved even though your gloved technique is fine.

Then go learn the techniques from the boxing club and adjust as needed

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well I'm big enough to admit that I am wrong, after having spent some time to research some stuff. My thinking was that kickboxing was an evolution of boxing, therefore a martial art in whatever sense I understood. Boxing though is set. You can't just walk out into a ring and then decide to throw an uppercut elbow for example. I have viewed boxing (not in a disrespectful way) as basic human need to defend oneself and as natural system to learn and follow. Pretty much anyone can learn to box, doesn't mean anyone can be particularly good at. I don't think that just anybody could turn up to a dojo and suddenly learn a martial art in that respect. That is the way I look at rightly or completely wrongly.

Maybe it's just me, but I have precisely zero idea of what you are trying to communicate here.

Are you saying that the process of learning boxing is somehow easier or different from the process of learning any other martial art? You don't "suddenly learn" it any more than any other art. You learn boxing through sustained consistent practice over time - just like Judo or Wing Chun or TKD or Silat or any other art.

What do the rules of the ring have to do with it? You also can't walk into a Judo tournament or a Tae Kwon Do competition and start hitting people with uppercut elbows. Does that mean they aren't martial arts?

Can you clarify your point? Perhaps you can start by offering your definition of a martial art, because nothing you've said so far in this thread is quite making sense to me. Perhaps if I knew what you meant by the term in question I would understand better.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Can one train Boxing and Karate/TKD at the same time? A guy at my club claim that they would force me to beef up muscles and that it's in herent to Boxing, a certain boxing type physique, regardless if I compete or not. He suggested I wait until I have black belt in TKD, but I won't. It's either both or I lay off TKD for some time.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Can one train Boxing and Karate/TKD at the same time? A guy at my club claim that they would force me to beef up muscles and that it's in herent to Boxing, a certain boxing type physique, regardless if I compete or not isn't elevant. He suggested I wait until I have black belt in TKD, but I won't. It's either both or I lay off TKD for some time.

You can and many people have. The big thing you need to remember is to keep each art in its respective place for the time being. Don't go into your TKD class telling your instructor "My boxing coach said I should punch this way" or vice versa. Show respect for the art you are learning and the instructor you are learning from at the moment.

The guy saying that boxing will force you to "beef up" has no idea what he is talking about. Boxing training will force you to work on your conditioning, but that is a far cry from forcing you to "beef up."

 

[Transk53]

Maybe it's just me, but I have precisely zero idea of what you are trying to communicate here.

Are you saying that the process of learning boxing is somehow easier or different from the process of learning any other martial art? You don't "suddenly learn" it any more than any other art. You learn boxing through sustained consistent practice over time - just like Judo or Wing Chun or TKD or Silat or any other art.

What do the rules of the ring have to do with it? You also can't walk into a Judo tournament or a Tae Kwon Do competition and start hitting people with uppercut elbows. Does that mean they aren't martial arts?

Can you clarify your point? Perhaps you can start by offering your definition of a martial art, because nothing you've said so far in this thread is quite making sense to me. Perhaps if I knew what you meant by the term in question I would understand better.

I just see boxing as a intrinsic core ability. In the playing ground, a kid naturally strikes out with his fist, he will not go through a routine of forms. Just my personal take in simplistic terms.

 

[Laplace_demon]

You can and many people have. The big thing you need to remember is to keep each art in its respective place for the time being. Don't go into your TKD class telling your instructor "My boxing coach said I should punch this way" or vice versa. Show respect for the art you are learning and the instructor you are learning from at the moment.
"

I don't see why you felt the need to point that out. Do I really come across that stupid?

 

[Transk53]

I don't see why you felt the need to point that out. Do I really come across that stupid?

No, but a little common sense would say that aggravated you. Hey learning is learning.

 

[Laplace_demon]

I just see boxing as a intrinsic core ability. In the playing ground, a kid naturally strikes out with his fist, he will not go through a routine of forms. Just my personal take in simplistic terms.

It might very well be an ability you are born with. That does not however make it less of an art. There is also the distinction between technical proficiency and being a great fighter. A distinction you seem to blurr.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I just see boxing as a intrinsic core ability. In the playing ground, a kid naturally strikes out with his fist, he will not go through a routine of forms. Just my personal take in simplistic terms.

I'm going to disagree with you pretty strongly on that. An untrained person throwing an untrained punch is not boxing any more than it is Karate, Wing Chun, or Tae Kwon Do. There is a lot of sophisticated technique that goes into making boxing what it is and that technique is not an "intrinsic core ability."

For that matter, grabbing hold of someone in a fight is also an instinctive act - but you wouldn't say that an untrained kid tackling someone on the playground is doing BJJ would you?

 

[Laplace_demon]

No, but a little common sense would say that aggravated you. Hey learning is learning.

If people write to me as if I was a 5 year old, then yeah, It will aggravate me.

 

[Laplace_demon]

Mate, get yourself "Championship Fighting; Explosive Punching and Effective Defense" by Jack Dempsey, a great fighter and a great man. In it he tells you exactly how you should be punching when not using gloves. He also explains why this method works and why the boxers fracture happens when ungloved even though your gloved technique is fine.

Then go learn the techniques from the boxing club and adjust as needed

Why not instead tell me where mr Dempsey advocates that I should punch, so I don't have to read the hole book A human skull is of the hardest materials in the world for your fist to strike. Far harder than whatever Karatekas use for breaking.

 

[Steve]

I just see boxing as a intrinsic core ability. In the playing ground, a kid naturally strikes out with his fist, he will not go through a routine of forms. Just my personal take in simplistic terms.

I would say fighting is an intrinsic, core ability. They don't call it the "fight or flight" instinct for nothing. But fighting and boxing aren't the same thing. Just as fighting and TKD aren't the same.

 

[Transk53]

I would say fighting is an intrinsic, core ability. They don't call it the "fight or flight" instinct for nothing. But fighting and boxing aren't the same thing. Just as fighting and TKD aren't the same.

Hey look. I simply can't convey my thoughts to defend myself here. I need time to digest. Fighting, where do you think boxing comes from?

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I don't see why you felt the need to point that out. Do I really come across that stupid?

I've met way too many students along the way who didn't seem to understand the concept. If you aren't the sort to argue with your seniors when they try to teach you something, then good for you.