Body unification

[Gyakuto]

I think one reasons for such punching is that the easiest time to sweep or kick someones legs is while they are moving, or even worse jumping. I always feel that moving my feet is also a time where by balance is at risk. Punching while you are moving or one feet in the air works, but feel less stable.

It’s just an exercise. If you can produce a pretty effective punch from a static position then adding linear body movements will simply add to it’s effectiveness.

If I want to launch a strong punch where I put my body weight behind I shift the body weight forward into the punch, but I would prefer to not move my feet as it gives me worse balance. I prefer to have both my feet rooted while punching, especially body shots, because there you have massive resistance. To punch someone in the jaw I presume does not need the same rooting as the resistance will not bring you off balance.

I had an interesting discussion about this with a Goju Ryu exponent. He began his punch while his progressing foot was still ‘airborne’ stating that this was the point of maximum forward speed which added to the force of the punch. I suggested that in Wado Ryu the progressing foot was planted slightly before the punch was launched still adding some body kinetic energy to the punch; I’d rather punch from solid ground than while floating in the air.

Having said all this, I think we tend to over-egg punch force required to do damage. A blade doesn’t need to be powerfully thrust with full body behind it to penetrate a body, it can be simply pressed into the enemy.

 

[Flying Crane]

Could you give more detail on

I tried to write it up but it is difficult to give a description without showing it.

This will be inadequate, but it is sort of like a controlled run where you punch forward instead of just swinging your arms. But you don’t just lean into it like a sprint where all of your energy is moving forward. You keep the body upright and you control the feet and legs more so your rear foot keeps to the ground and does not simply roll up into the next step until you are ready for it. In this way you get the driving power from the rear foot while still getting rotation in the torso. Punch lands as the front foot lands. and you keep control so you can stop and/or change directions whenever you want. You do not simply abandon yourself to a sprint that you cannot control.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

your rear foot keeps to the ground and does not simply roll up into the next step until you are ready for it. In this way you get the driving power from the rear foot while still getting rotation in the torso. Punch lands as the front foot lands. and you keep control so you can stop and/or change directions whenever you want. You do not simply abandon yourself to a sprint that you cannot control.

Thanks for sharing your experience. To keep the back foot to connect on the ground as long as you can is the key.

 

[Flying Crane]

Thanks for sharing your experience. To keep the back foot to connect on the ground as long as you can is the key.

Yes, and the forward momentum wants to interfere with that, make the heel rise up. So the specifics on how you drive forward with the step, while keeping control of those mechanics, makes it a somewhat “odd” looking step. But you will only do it one or two times in a row, three at the most. If you haven’t had successful results by the , do something else or your enemy will anticipate and counter you.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, and the forward momentum wants to interfere with that, make the heel rise up. So the specifics on how you drive forward with the step, while keeping control of those mechanics, makes it a somewhat “odd” looking step. But you will only do it one or two times in a row, three at the most. If you haven’t had successful results by the , do something else or your enemy will anticipate and counter you.

I will add that the feet are about shoulder width apart, perhaps slightly less, parallel, facing forward, as if they are on rails. This keeps them both pointed forward and minimizes the risk of the rear foot rolling sideways, which I think is what was happening in the video clip of Sifu Hsu, because his rear foot was not pointed forward.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes. But, planting both feet before punching is more powerful.

Not necessarily, it does however make you slower

 

[JowGaWolf]

It's the maximum reach and maximum power that people try to train.

I train both long range power and short range power. Short range power doesn't try to reach. maximum reach.

 

[Fungus]

Static punch - you coordinate your punch with your back leg (bend -> straight).

Dynamic punch - you coordinate your punch with your front foot landing.

Ok thanks for the defintions, it wasn't quite clear.

I don't think the two definitions are always mutually exclusive. I often do the combination that you claim is wrong

It is wrong that you

- still connect your back foot with the ground when you do dynamic punch.

The trick would be to not JUMP like the person in your movie clip, but just lower your stance (drop your body weight) not by jumping but just be raising your lead foot and fall foward into the target. This technique does not work for head strikes though but are nice for solar plexus power counters.

I've tries this as a simultanous counter to low kick. Insted of blocking the kick, I lower my stance by tensing my rear leg and planm on eating the kick, and at the same time (on down/forwarde momentum) at the same time the front foot hits the ground I launch a rear strike into solar plexus or stomack. If your fast and counters the force of hte kick will also be reduced. This gives solid rooting (my back book lever leaves the ground), and it adds forward momentum. This strike if successful has the potential for a real KO strike. I see it as a combo of static and dynamic, but without "jumping", just "falling foward" into your opponent, and time the fall with the strike and your lead foot landing. Lowering your stance, gives extra reach for low targets, but not as much as jumping of course, like superman punch.

This person is not just falling forward, he is JUMPING forward, then of course the reach is much longer. Want longer reach is a valid reason.

 

[Fungus]

It’s just an exercise. If you can produce a pretty effective punch from a static position then adding linear body movements will simply add to it’s effectiveness.

I had an interesting discussion about this with a Goju Ryu exponent. He began his punch while his progressing foot was still ‘airborne’ stating that this was the point of maximum forward speed which added to the force of the punch. I suggested that in Wado Ryu the progressing foot was planted slightly before the punch was launched still adding some body kinetic energy to the punch; I’d rather punch from solid ground than while floating in the air.

Having said all this, I think we tend to over-egg punch force required to do damage. A blade doesn’t need to be powerfully thrust with full body behind it to penetrate a body, it can be simply pressed into the enemy.

I just realized there are many variables here, so I can imagine what is best depends on your striking target and angle. Generally I think jump punchs as well as jump kicks are risky, especially in a style are leg kicks are not only allowed by the most common kick.

In kyokyushing "pushing" like a sumo-strike to chest is not allowed, but sometimes you want to "push" your opponent away, but only using punches. Then todo so with a 230 pound opponent is challenging. I find the most effective is to trick the opoonent to run at you, then launch a "static counter" as a stop punch into the chest. That is usually very effective. If someone having is coming at you the same way, unless your rear feet are roote, they will litteraly run over you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I believe jumping in the air and stomping of the foot causes vertical power leaks—not as much force going horizontally into the opponent. The compress and weight transfer (head, knee, foot not aligned) ending in neutral position are weaker. The block/punch and timing seem to be late.

I personally don't think this is the application movement. I think this is the training moment similar to how punching in static horse teaches power development of the upper body. From the exaggerated movement it looks as if it may teach how to fall in a punch or how to push into a punch. Ir may be training the pushing for example push as far as you can with that pushing leg.

Stomping is often what dropping power sounds like. I often refer to ti as jumping down. So if you are standing and you want to drop your weight, you jumping up little and allow your body to free fall to the ground. the stompping sound is the the impact sound that your body makes as it hits the ground.

The mechanics of a stomp is generally to lift the knee and then push the leg forcefly Into the ground. He does lift his knee. The drill that he's doing seems to be for skill development and not application development.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The trick would be to not JUMP like the person in your movie clip, but just lower your stance (drop your body weight) not by jumping but just be raising your lead foot and fall foward into the target. This technique does not work for head strikes though but are nice for solar plexus power counters

This is how I understand it with the exception that weight drop is not lowered. Lowering doesn't have the same heaviness as weight drop.

Yesterday I did a demo of weight drop for horizontal and weight drop for vertical. In both cases There was no drop. Then we did weight drop when training Kali and there was no drop. I think it's good to learn both ways, but in application it drop should rise high like in the video. Boxers shuffle into the jab and for a split second they are falling. That falling is the Wright drop.

I think some martial artists stomp to make it seem as if there is more power than there really is. Others stomp because they don't know that it's a drop.

Sprawling on grappling works the same way you jump up a little which allows your feel to move backwards and you allow your weight to fall.

 

[Gyakuto]

I just realized there are many variables here, so I can imagine what is best depends on your striking target and angle. Generally I think jump punchs as well as jump kicks are risky, especially in a style are leg kicks are not only allowed by the most common kick.

They say this about kicks above the waist level!

In kyokyushing "pushing" like a sumo-strike to chest is not allowed,

In competition, you mean? What about dojo free-sparring?

but sometimes you want to "push" your opponent away, but only using punches.

You could move yourself backwards…

Then todo so with a 230 pound opponent is challenging. I find the most effective is to trick the opoonent to run at you

Questioning his mother’s virtue usually facilitates a charge.

then launch a "static counter" as a stop punch into the chest. That is usually very effective. If someone having is coming at you the same way, unless your rear feet are roote, they will litteraly run over you.

In such a situation, a Wado Ryu exponent will twist a little to remove themselves off the line of charge, and counter from the new angle. That works really well too, but requires practise, not least to overcome your instinct to step straight backward.

I sparred with Suzuki Tatsuo sensei, 8th Dan hanshi once. I was petrified, of course, but did my best and he just slipped my punches and kicks with a slight move off the midline, sometimes with a simple body twist and it was like he just disappeared! The twist was accompanied with a simultaneous counter which ‘powered’ it too.

Try it!

 

[Fungus]

This is how I understand it with the exception that weight drop is not lowered. Lowering doesn't have the same heaviness as weight drop.

Yesterday I did a demo of weight drop for horizontal and weight drop for vertical. In both cases There was no drop. Then we did weight drop when training Kali and there was no drop. I think it's good to learn both ways, but in application it drop should rise high like in the video. Boxers shuffle into the jab and for a split second they are falling. That falling is the Wright drop.

Not sure I understand what you mean with your terms, what do you mean by lowering vs weight drop? What does "there is no drop" mean? drop in what? power? center of gravity?

I think some martial artists stomp to make it seem as if there is more power than there really is. Others stomp because they don't know that it's a drop.

Hmm I try to avoid a hard stomp, it seems to waste energy that should go into the punch. What should I think counterforce the drop is not the stomp, but the slightly downward punch. (this is why this does not work for head punches or high chesst punches at all).

 

[JowGaWolf]

ot sure I understand what you mean with your terms, what do you mean by lowering vs weight drop? What does "there is no drop" mean?

That's a typo. It should be that there is a weight drop. As in weight drop can drive both horizontal and vertical power.

Think of an overhead tennis slam. The tennis player hits the ball downward and foward at the same time

 

[Gyakuto]

.

 

[Fungus]

That's a typo. It should be that there is a weight drop. As in weight drop can drive both horizontal and vertical power.

Think of an overhead tennis slam. The tennis player hits the ball downward and foward at the same time

So like a wedge even, the wedge is formed by your rear leg and your rear fist, this wedge is pushed down by your body weight? If that is what you mean we think alike!

 

[marvin8]

Yes. But, planting both feet before punching is more powerful.

Not necessarily, it does however make you slower

Planting the lead foot before landing the rear hand reverse punch allows you to shift more weight to the front foot, transferring more weight into the opponent for more power.

Also, it takes your head off the centerline for defensive purposes. Again, Adam's "coordinating" the lead foot and rear hand causes him to end up in the neutral position with head on the centerline. For martial purposes, that can be slipped and countered. Following the Action/Reaction principle when Adam steps, I step countering Adam by punching him in the face.

In Adam's Power Issuing video, Adam plants both feet and gets more "twisting power" by transferring more weight onto his front foot. (Raising the rear heel allows more weight transfer. Proper alignment should be head, knee, heel.)

https://imgur.com/6YdfB5h

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I don't think the two definitions are always mutually exclusive.

It's not mutually exclusive if your leading foot hop while your back foot still connects to the ground (hop a shorter distance).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I find the most effective is to trick the opoonent to run at you, then launch a "static counter" as a stop punch into the chest. That is usually very effective. If someone having is coming at you the same way, unless your rear feet are roote, they will litteraly run over you.

That's a basic training in my school. Your opponent holds a kicking shield, run toward you like a mad man. You then try to stop his forward momentum with only one kick (front kick or side kick). If your rooting leg doesn't have good connection to the ground, you will be pushed over.

There is no argument that to use the earth to support your power generation will be the best method.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

allow your weight to fall.

Weight drop training can be seen in this training. The double punches coordinate with the feet dropping.