Bobby Taboada's World Balintawak International Summer Camp 2010

[Robert Klampfer]

I also posted this in the "Seminars, Camps, etc" section but, I know that a lot of us only check this particular section regularly... :wink1:

Bobby Taboada will be hosting a World Balintawak International Summer Camp in Charlotte, North Carolina on August 7 and 8, 2010. Details and online registration may be found at his website: www.internationalbalintawak.com

Robert

 

[Gurokevin]

I wish I could have made it to this. And every other seminar of GM Taboada's.

 

[stanly stud]

he´s very good

 

[geezer]

From what I've seen, Bobby Taboada is the most impressive exponent of the Balintawak system around today. Downright scary skills.

We have some Balintawak people in my area under Sam Buot who's a really nice guy, but I'm sticking with the Foom-Foom system I trained. Stanley, you know what I''m talking about!

 

[Jimmythebull]

From what I've seen, Bobby Taboada is the most impressive exponent of the Balintawak system around today. Downright scary skills.

We have some Balintawak people in my area under Sam Buot who's a really nice guy, but I'm sticking with the Foom-Foom system I trained. Stanley, you know what I''m talking about!

So this System uses just one Stick?

 

[Rich Parsons]

So this System uses just one Stick?

Balintawak in general is a stick optimized dueling system.

That being said, GM (Manong) Bobby has put other content into his system of requirements.

GM Anciong Bacon the Founder, trained pre-WWII with the Saavadres for Doces Pares and prior to that as well.
They used a stick and dagger.
GM Bacon was known as a jerk amongst his classmates as his wooden dagger was sanded to the finest point, so when people would say they blocked or he missed, he could ask them why their white shirt had a red dot or dots on it.
So he was asked to not train with the Dagger.
And his optimization began.
The Hand positions and body work lead to Stick & Dagger easily. And one can take it from there, if you understand the mechanics and the attributes of the weapons and adjust accordingly.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Balintawak in general is a stick optimized dueling system.

That being said, GM (Manong) Bobby has put other content into his system of requirements.

GM Anciong Bacon the Founder, trained pre-WWII with the Saavadres for Doces Pares and prior to that as well.
They used a stick and dagger.
GM Bacon was known as a jerk amongst his classmates as his wooden dagger was sanded to the finest point, so when people would say they blocked or he missed, he could ask them why their white shirt had a red dot or dots on it.
So he was asked to not train with the Dagger.
And his optimization began.
The Hand positions and body work lead to Stick & Dagger easily. And one can take it from there, if you understand the mechanics and the attributes of the weapons and adjust accordingly.

What's your opinions on René latosa escrima?

 

[Jimmythebull]

His System seemed to be less rigid & more like the " jeet kune do" concepts.

 

[geezer]

His System seemed to be less rigid & more like the " jeet kune do" concepts.

That's pretty much the way I look at it. The late GM Rene Latosa based his Escrima on five concepts: Power, Speed (timing and distance), Focus, Balance, and Transition.

During his life he moved away from a specific system of graded techniques, drills, forms, etc. to finally working on teaching a realistic and conceptual approach to fighting that would be beneficial to fighters of diverse backgrounds. He often said things like, It's not about who you trained with or how many techniques you know, what's important is what YOU can do ...and that's on you.

Maestro Martin Torres, an Escrima/MMA coach who also trained for a long time under GM Rene back in the 80s and 90s put it this way, What we do is what JKD was supposed to be!

 

[geezer]

His System seemed to be less rigid & more like the " jeet kune do" concepts.

BTW I see you posted an old video of GM Rene and his friend GM Bill Newman. I'm told that GM Bill continued running the EWTO Escrima program after GM Latosa severed his affiliation with that organization and instead worked with Emin Boztepe's EBMAS organization as well as with independent gyms.

Without weighing in on old "political" issues, it did strike me as though The EWTO had a much more regimented, or even "packaged" training system, and was really headed down a different path. Did you have any experience with that organization?

 

[Rich Parsons]

What's your opinions on René latosa escrima?

That's pretty much the way I look at it. The late GM Rene Latosa based his Escrima on five concepts: Power, Speed (timing and distance), Focus, Balance, and Transition.

During his life he moved away from a specific system of graded techniques, drills, forms, etc. to finally working on teaching a realistic and conceptual approach to fighting that would be beneficial to fighters of diverse backgrounds. He often said things like, It's not about who you trained with or how many techniques you know, what's important is what YOU can do ...and that's on you.

Maestro Martin Torres, an Escrima/MMA coach who also trained for a long time under GM Rene back in the 80s and 90s put it this way, What we do is what JKD was supposed to be!

I have worked a little with those have trained in Latosa Escrima.
I have no real training nor exposure .

I liked parts of the video and others I did not. Some of it I am too far down my own rabbit hole for power and balance and weight placement for impact striking that this system that seems to be not concerned with the attributes of the weapon. e.g. blunt impact or chopping versus slicing

This wasn't discussed. It doesn't need to be discussed because it is their system.
It could be part of a different video, or so much common knowledge that everyone forgets to record it or it truly does not matter in their style.

I know what I have provided is a non answer.
I think it is fine.
I think somethings I would do differently. (* Surprise Surprise Surprise - people don't all agree *)

 

[geezer]

I have worked a little with those have trained in Latosa Escrima....
I think somethings I would do differently. (* Surprise Surprise Surprise - people don't all agree *)

That's the thing about the people I've worked with that had experience with Latosa as a coach in the early days. I saw a lot of diversity. Most of them did things their own way. Some had considerable experience with blades, and also with other systems in the Stockton area. Some of the core American group also had had experience with extreme violence in their youth. They actually used their FMA.

So maybe they were not as uniform in what they did, and not so indoctrinated into a specific "system" as those who learned the more public, commercial version presented in seminars and as an add on in WingTsun schools ...especially in the European WT Organization.

For what is't worth, I also fit in with the latter "hobbiest" group. I never had to deal with the violence that some of the guys like Brady or Martin saw. Looking back I had no idea at the time who I was training with.

 

[Jimmythebull]

That's the thing about the people I've worked with that had experience with Latosa as a coach in the early days. I saw a lot of diversity. Most of them did things their own way. Some had considerable experience with blades, and also with other systems in the Stockton area. Some of the core American group also had had experience with extreme violence in their youth. They actually used their FMA.

So maybe they were not as uniform in what they did, and not so indoctrinated into a specific "system" as those who learned the more public, commercial version presented in seminars and as an add on in WingTsun schools ...especially in the European WT Organization.

For what is't worth, I also fit in with the latter "hobbiest" group. I never had to deal with the violence that some of the guys like Brady or Martin saw. Looking back I had no idea at the time who I was training with.

View attachment 28909

Sadly René latosa passed away a while back & the EWTO teaches the Bill Newman Variation which from what I've heard is not what he was tought from René latosa. I think your post is spot on.

 

[Jimmythebull]

I definitely want to get into the philipino Systems n

I have worked a little with those have trained in Latosa Escrima.
I have no real training nor exposure .

I liked parts of the video and others I did not. Some of it I am too far down my own rabbit hole for power and balance and weight placement for impact striking that this system that seems to be not concerned with the attributes of the weapon. e.g. blunt impact or chopping versus slicing

This wasn't discussed. It doesn't need to be discussed because it is their system.
It could be part of a different video, or so much common knowledge that everyone forgets to record it or it truly does not matter in their style.

I know what I have provided is a non answer.
I think it is fine.
I think somethings I would do differently. (* Surprise Surprise Surprise - people don't all agree *)

In my area I sadly have no-one really at any great standards to learn with. There's a EWTO school about 200 metres from me but the guy teaches no escrima. Have to look further away. I'm sure all the escrima Systems have their merits. The doce paares System I've been told has some nice sweeps & locks in there from other Systems even judo. It's as I wrote finding a good teacher that's the main problem.
I like the Single stick idea though seems more practical to me.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Without weighing in on old "political" issues, it did strike me as though The EWTO had a much more regimented, or even "packaged" training system, and was really headed down a different path. Did you have any experience with that organization?

Yes I did in the 90s. The EWTO is only a money making machine. One senior instructor who spoke to me ( after leaving) said it was almost mafia like. Pressure put on people from up top. Their rank structure was designed to squeeze as much money out of you as possible..each grade throwing a carrot so you paid more. Kernsprecht milking the gullible youth at the time.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I definitely want to get into the philipino Systems n

In my area I sadly have no-one really at any great standards to learn with. There's a EWTO school about 200 metres from me but the guy teaches no escrima. Have to look further away. I'm sure all the escrima Systems have their merits. The doce paares System I've been told has some nice sweeps & locks in there from other Systems even judo. It's as I wrote finding a good teacher that's the main problem.
I like the Single stick idea though seems more practical to me.

FMA can be hard to find as many instructors teach out of garages or civic centers or ... ,
Post or send me your location and I will see if I know of anyone in the area.

 

[Jimmythebull]

FMA can be hard to find as many instructors teach out of garages or civic centers or ... ,
Post or send me your location and I will see if I know of anyone in the area.

Thanks the escrima community seem to be friendly & helpful.
I'll pm you

 

[geezer]

The EWTO is only a money making machine. One senior instructor who spoke to me ( after leaving) said it was almost mafia like. Pressure put on people from up top. Their rank structure was designed to squeeze as much money out of you as possible..each grade throwing a carrot so you paid more.

Yeah, it seems like Leung Ting's WT organization here attempted the same business strategy over here in the States, hoping to make the same kind of profits that Kernspecht made in the 80s in Europe.

The Americans were not nearly so successful financially as Kernspecht for many reasons, but essentially they followed the same business model, a classic multi-level marketing scheme (MLM). The only people who make any money in an MLM are those at the very top of the pyramid. But, the way it was set up in the US, it was even worse. The only guy who stood to make money was the one guy at the very top.

...Not a very attractive business model for upcoming instructors to say the least. Also, problematic for ethical instructors who really want to teach and also want to be fair and honest with their students.

 

[Jimmythebull]

Yeah, it seems like Leung Ting's WT organization here attempted the same business strategy over here in the States, hoping to make the same kind of profits that Kernspecht made in the 80s in Europe.

The Americans were not nearly so successful financially as Kernspecht for many reasons, but essentially they followed the same business model, a classic multi-level marketing scheme (MLM). The only people who make any money in an MLM are those at the very top of the pyramid. But, the way it was set up in the US, it was even worse. The only guy who stood to make money was the one guy at the very top.

...Not a very attractive business model for upcoming instructors to say the least. Also, problematic for ethical instructors who really want to teach and also want to be fair and honest with their students.

Yes it's money making. Kernsprecht still runs his WT propaganda magazine. The WT fighter is the best fighter, Kernsprecht is the Golden Buddha at the top.

WingTsun-World - The Magazine of the EWTO

www.wingtsunwelt.com

 

[Jimmythebull]

Remember a guy I knew had a pile of these in the 90s.