Blue belt second stripe....Online?

[Hanzou]

Wait so gracie are not really gracies?

Where did I say that? I said its not "the Gracies" its one branch of the Gracie family. Various members teach different variations of their family art. Some veer into sports, others veer into self defense, while still others teach a combination along with the martial arts.

nonsense what makes you think a bluebell would be invited in to tap out browns that's how mcdojos work

That's how Bjj works. If a school doesn't allow students from another Bjj school to train with them, then people will begin to suspect something. There's also the competition side of things. If your school is sucking horribly at the competitions, people will begin to notice. Also good luck maintaining a healthy student population if your school doesn't compete.

In short, its very difficult to prop up a quality lacking Bjj school for any long period of time.

secondly it's not a few there are 5 near me so I'd imagine it's everywhere now I'm sure we are not the rare exception.

How exactly do you know that those schools are McDojos?

Lol I'm sure they care what you think as they cash their fat paychecks from the Internet schools

Not really the point.

 

[ballen0351]

Where did I say that? I said its not "the Gracies" its one branch of the Gracie family. Various members teach different variations of their family art. Some veer into sports, others veer into self defense, while still others teach a combination along with the martial arts.

Right so like I said go tell the Gracie's they are destroying BJJ

That's how Bjj works. If a school doesn't allow students from another Bjj school to train with them, then people will begin to suspect something. There's also the competition side of things. If your school is sucking horribly at the competitions, people will begin to notice. Also good luck maintaining a healthy student population if your school doesn't compete.

In short, its very difficult to prop up a quality lacking Bjj school for any long period of time.

Lol ok. Look you can stick your head in the sand if you want but watered down BJJ is here and it will get worse. It's happened to EVERY martial art flavor if the Month. When it gets popular people are going to exploit it to make a buck. I can now sign up online and earn a blue belt with stripes from a gracie school and when I watched his sales pitch they plan on expanding it all the way to black belt and instructor certification all online. They claim I would never even need to step foot in a dojo. It's here and it's only going to get worse as popularity grows.

How exactly do you know that those schools are McDojos?

I don't for sure I do know a few months ago they only taught TKD or only were crossfit gyms and now they all somehow found a way to teach BJJ. I personally know one gym owner that had a blue belt in BJJ and now in less then 6 to 8 months has a brown belt and his own MMA school where he mixes BJJ and TKD.
So I'm taking a wild guess that it's probably not on part with a few of the really good BJJ and MMA gyms around here.

Not really the point.

No but it is the point. Money is why they do it. Money is what will water down BJJ just like it did Karate, TKD, Krav Maga, Kung fu, each became the flavor of the month over the last 50 years each reigning supreme for a decade or so until so many schools popped up that it over saturated the market and watered it down. There are still really good schools out there for each of those arts and there are very bad ones. At the end of the day who cares as long as your happy. And I don't care if people train in a Mcdojo if they are happy it's none of my business. Mcdojos are not bad they serve a purpose and if people like going then great. If Online BJJ makes people happy who cares they don't need to answer to me or you about how they spend their free time

 

[Takai]

I'm guessing it could take you to a certain level, sure, but you can't beat human interaction.

Agreed.

 

[Transk53]

I am not up to date on all the apps and stuff one can get online or by their phones but without true hands on instruction by a competent instructor who can correct your mistakes how can you you get quality instruction. At some point do you not need actual contact with someone that knows what they are doing to improve what you are doing or think you are doing

aside form that what is kinect? as I said i'm a primitive

It is device that picks up movement via camera that captures a persons movement as you play a dancing game for example. You do need quite a bit of room though, if clumsy like me lol.

 

[Transk53]

I just cannot see them awarding anyone a belt from online training. I have met some of the current generation of Blue Belts training at some academies and frankly some are not very impressive! Sorry but back in the day it was on average closer to two and a half to three years to get a blue belt. Online training, blue belts in a year of training, etc. is starting to water down BJJ. In the end unfortunately it is the wave of the future due to the money involved!!! Never liked it when Rorion started this and unfortunately it has continued and probably will continue to it's natural progression. (online black belt) You simply cannot learn online well as you will miss all the fundamental nuances that you will learn from a live instructor. Online training, dvd's, books, etc. are all great and serve a great benefit for someone using them as a supplement to their regular training with a live instructor!!! By themselves as the sole source they are not so good.

Nor can I fella, and you are quite right. Obviously being an instructor you passionate about your art, and again quite right too. However, as you alluded to, if for example you live right out in the sticks like Yorkshire, the app has some merit. If it was structured in such a way that a belt could not be awarded, at least some one could learn the basics of whatever, if they could not get to a class on a regular basis. Even Microsoft realised that the X-Box had more potential that a frag fest machine

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Yes as a supplement to training with a live instructor videos, books, dvd's etc. are great. Just as the sole source of learning it is not so good as you will miss those subtle nuances that makes some thing work. So if someone lived in the sticks I would advise them to find a school and drive an hour or two to train when they could and supplement their training watching videos over material they have learned in class/in person or a seminar so that they can still feel in the flow of the training. Used like that it works out fine. I have lots of IRT practitioners that use books, dvd's, online videos to supplement their training. Which is good. Just utilizing it as the sole method of learning IRT would be not so effective!

 

[BamBamx8]

I would quit the school.Can't see how you would learn it correctly online.Its like when I did carpentry,You can't learn it in school but on the job.On paper it may look good but real work you have to make adjustments.

 

[Chrisoro]

Gracie University changed the grading procedure a while back, before this thread was even started. The practice that they have now, is that you can get a "technical blue belt" from an online evaluation, but in order to get the official blue belt, you have to be evaluated in person by an instructor connected to, or certified by the Gracie Academy, to ensure the quality of the official belt holders.

The gradings for each of the individual stripes on the blue belt can then be taken trough online evaluation, but for purple belt and up, you have to be evaluated in person again. And the online "technical belt" only applies to blue belt, meaning that there is no "technical purple belt", and that every potential purple belt and above has to be evaluated in person.

Close up of the label on the technical blue belt as it looks now, minimizing potential for misunderstandings.

 

[Chrisoro]

Here is a video of a pure Gracie University 2 stripe blue belt rolling, btw.

 

[jezr74]

Evan tanner taught himself using a VCR in a cabin, imagine what driven people are doing these days with online sessions. And then you get garage groups like the GU encourage, I think it's really good culture and martial community that's being built. Opens a lot of doors for some people that don't have normal access.

 

[msmitht]

Never seen an online blue belt that could hold their own. I been in bjj for about 14 years. I know a lot of bjj black belts from various gyms. We all agree that online belts are a joke. Yes, you can learn the basic movements but without a trained partner and a black belt guiding you there is no way to learn proper reactions when your partner resists/shifts weight/changes grips/etc...
I like the idea of online training but only as a guide to go along with proper classes.

 

[jezr74]

Never seen an online blue belt that could hold their own. I been in bjj for about 14 years. I know a lot of bjj black belts from various gyms. We all agree that online belts are a joke. Yes, you can learn the basic movements but without a trained partner and a black belt guiding you there is no way to learn proper reactions when your partner resists/shifts weight/changes grips/etc...
I like the idea of online training but only as a guide to go along with proper classes.

What about technical belts with a garage of people fighting constantly, but just not in an established gym?

 

[msmitht]

try to imagine a group of white belts who don't know anything about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. without anybody to guide them they would spend countless hours on techniques that they think might work, and they might on an untrained individual, or it might be setting himself up to get reversed. now if they're in the garage and they have somebody who has trained and know the basics well, say a purple belt, then it is different. You could learn a lot but still possibly not see the whole picture. Make sense?
as for following the videos alone, even in a group setting, you don't have the person there to tell you what happens if you do it wrong or they block what you are trying to do. you might not have the angle right, or you might not have pulled your hip out enough. Your grip might not be deep enough. Who is,to tell them to not grab inside the sleeve or pants?
Too many possibilities for injury or worse, learning something you think will help you in a fight only to wind up in a lot of pain cause you forgot or didn't know a crucial step.

 

[jezr74]

try to imagine a group of white belts who don't know anything about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. without anybody to guide them they would spend countless hours on techniques that they think might work, and they might on an untrained individual, or it might be setting himself up to get reversed. now if they're in the garage and they have somebody who has trained and know the basics well, say a purple belt, then it is different. You could learn a lot but still possibly not see the whole picture. Make sense?
as for following the videos alone, even in a group setting, you don't have the person there to tell you what happens if you do it wrong or they block what you are trying to do. you might not have the angle right, or you might not have pulled your hip out enough. Your grip might not be deep enough. Who is,to tell them to not grab inside the sleeve or pants?
Too many possibilities for injury or worse, learning something you think will help you in a fight only to wind up in a lot of pain cause you forgot or didn't know a crucial step.

I do understand the limitations as your describing. I think the middle ground can be missed a lot where people can learn basics, and they may be happy to stick with that. I know as a kid growing up, the little basics I was taught by non-professionals went a long way.

Anything beyond may require formally trained or some mixed experience people coming to you home gym, which for these type of people in general is the case. A lot appear to have some backgrounds in other arts.

EDIT: BTW, I do believe in formal training. But I find modern learning methods interesting, since I think its something that is dismissed to quickly in most cases.

 

[panda]

In my opinion and experience (competitive judo) - if you're doing it for exercise or a hobby - online\book\video training is fine (real training is always better).
If you're planning on doing actual fighting in a ring or for your life, I wouldn't count on online martial arts... (would you go to an online schooled mechanic? dentist?...)

 

[Tony Dismukes]

(would you go to an online schooled mechanic? dentist?...)

I'm not sure that's the best example. There are plenty of self-taught mechanics out there and some of them are quite good.

 

[panda]

they are not exactly "self-taught" - not like you are talking about these guys in white belts training with each other.
these "selfers" usually start with something they picked up around them (father,friends etc.) then tinkered around with cars, and then probably started working somewere with professional people who fixed the things they did wrong.

as for the guys that keep being self-taught by themselves - well, there's alot of "fail" videos in youtube staring these guys...

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Honestly, I think the biggest limitation in training at a Gracie Garage with the online curriculum is much more the quality and quantity of training partners rather than the absence of an in-person instructor.

Obviously, having a good instructor on hand to provide nuanced feedback is extremely helpful. (As a BJJ black belt who is working hard to be a good instructor, I would say that. ) However, the honest truth is that there are plenty of instructors out there who are terrible at providing detailed individual feedback, even though they may be skilled practitioners. Somehow they still often manage to produce competent students. Furthermore, there are professional fighters who started out leaning jiu-jitsu from video tapes. Heck, the Gracies themselves started out with minimal instruction and mostly taught themselves.

The Gracie University instructional videos not only go far beyond what most instructors ever show in terms of technical detail, they also place the individual techniques in context of the larger art, clearly explain core concepts and principles, and repeatedly go over how to train and drill most productively and how to be a good, safe, helpful training partner.

If you have a Gracie Garage with a good sized training group full of dedicated, disciplined students, preferably at least some with a decent degree of athletic talent and maybe some prior wrestling or martial arts experience, then I have no doubt you could turn out some solid blue belts following the online curriculum. GU has posted some video of students that backs up my opinion on that. (I also personally know one GU blue belt who is totally deserving of the rank. That said, he has spent at least a little time training at actual schools.)

The problem is, most online students will not have a large group of talented, disciplined training partners. If it's just you and your spouse or your couch-potato neighbor, then you are highly unlikely to develop more than the ability to demonstrate the techniques on a compliant partner at best.

I've learned some good things via direct feedback from an instructor. I've learned a whole lot more via the feedback of grappling hundreds of training partners - jiujiteiros, judoka, wrestlers, samboists, MMA fighters, karateka, big guys, little guys, super-strong guys, super-flexible guys, super-fast guys, aggressive guys, sneaky guys, young folks, old folks, and more. Most people training online won't have that opportunity.

As far as the online promotions go ... the no-stripe blue belt isn't such a big deal, because it seems to match the promotion criteria for students training in person at the Gracie Academy. That rank is based not on sparring skill, but on demonstrated competence in the basic Gracie Combatives ("self-defense") curriculum. My understanding is that Gracie Academy white belts don't even spar. (They do practice "reflex development drills" which are only semi-free form and are focused on developing specific skills.)

I would have a larger issue with promotions beyond that point that are supposed to represent a certain degree of sparring skill (among other things). I think that would be a lot harder to evaluate based on a single video. I think they made the right decision to require in-person evaluations for the higher belts.

 

[jezr74]

Well said Tony, I know where people are coming from with the need for physical instruction.

But as Panda pointed out, a lot are recreational and not training for the ring. Would make a good case study, since I'm between gyms I might start training locally at a jj school that offers late night classes, and get my brother to train GU and see how our learning compares.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Well said Tony, I know where people are coming from with the need for physical instruction.

But as Panda pointed out, a lot are recreational and not training for the ring. Would make a good case study, since I'm between gyms I might start training locally at a jj school that offers late night classes, and get my brother to train GU and see how our learning compares.

Your brother will need a consistent training partner. You can't do the GU training solo.