Blackbelt test in another club

[Gwai Lo Dan]

If this were a college class .....

You got me thinking. Of course, as others have mentioned, "talk with the master".

In my last year of university, I was offered an interview 2 hours away, on the day of a mid-term.

I asked the professor if I could take the exam at an alternate time, and he said, no we'll just skip the mid-term exam and make the final proportionally more.

Point is, the professor agreed with what a student's goal and priority is - to get a job.

I'm sure the master will understand skipping the test, and perhaps an alternative will be offered.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

As a general rule, what students pay for my instruction is nowhere near what it is worth. If this were a college class and their are 15 credit hours in a week and and 20 weeks in a semester that would be 300 classroom hours often priced at $30,000 or more (Example for easy math) or $100 / hour. I would hope that in short order students would not view the student instructor relationship as simply a business transaction.

I've never done anything else in my adult life for the hourly rate I earned while teaching MA, except volunteer work, which turns out to pay just a bit less.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think I said this, but just in case - I've absolutely been to schools where I gained more than one would expect from a business transaction, and have had teachers whom were important to me, and are still in my life years after leaving the dojo. It doesn't have to be just a business transaction. But at its core, and for 95% of people, it is. And if an instructor is trying to use that as a way to, say, miss the birth of your child, so that they can say they have another black belt instructor without having to do the test themselves, that's a pretty big issue.

The biggest divide between me and my primary instructor came when he treated our relationship like a business transaction. It was never the same.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You got me thinking. Of course, as others have mentioned, "talk with the master".

In my last year of university, I was offered an interview 2 hours away, on the day of a mid-term.

I asked the professor if I could take the exam at an alternate time, and he said, no we'll just skip the mid-term exam and make the final proportionally more.

Point is, the professor agreed with what a student's goal and priority is - to get a job.

I'm sure the master will understand skipping the test, and perhaps an alternative will be offered.

This would be my thinking (if feasible) if I was in that instructor's position).

 

[HighKick]

I think I said this, but just in case - I've absolutely been to schools where I gained more than one would expect from a business transaction, and have had teachers whom were important to me, and are still in my life years after leaving the dojo. It doesn't have to be just a business transaction. But at its core, and for 95% of people, it is. And if an instructor is trying to use that as a way to, say, miss the birth of your child, so that they can say they have another black belt instructor without having to do the test themselves, that's a pretty big issue.

Don't want to derail this thread too fair, and don't think anyone is going to change the other's mind here, but just want to make a couple points. First, I was mainly pointing to what is often a toxic relationship where you feel indebted to the teacher and are willing to bend over backwards for them out of a sense of duty. Second, most students do view it as a business transaction, regardless of how the instructors may feel. They start with the idea they want to learn an art/get fit/whatever, and most students continue viewing it that way, or leave because they're no longer happy with the 'contract' for whatever reason. There are a rare few that continue past that, but most don't. Finally, the college comparison is flawed. People aren't going to college to learn, really. They're going to get a degree and have verifiable evidence that they've learned X to help them in their career path. Very few people are training for the same purpose, especially when they first sign up. A better example would be other leisure activites that require learning. I just looked up rock climbing and found that the spot near my house charges $95/month, which comes with rock climbing lessons, and piano lessons cost 30-40 for one session per week. Both are pretty comparable with martial arts costs in the area.

As you said, I don't mean to derail the thread too much, but your college comments were a bit off to me.
For clarity, I went to college a Looong time ago and have two Master degrees plus various work-related certifications. I never felt like the degrees really changed my career trajectory all that much. Beyond getting some stupid questions out of the way at staff meetings, it was more about fulfilling my own accomplishments that I did not finish when I was younger. In this respect, I agree with what you said.
In this era, yes, not all people go to college to learn. But it should Never be that way in reality. For too many it is just an extension of high school, and 2-4 years or more largely wasted. Buuut, for those who do it right there is a great learning process going on that greatly helps them post college and in their career.
That said, a considerable amount of applicable education/training is learned on the job. There is just too much specificity in certain jobs to cover everything in college.
I don't think the average martial arts program is quite up to the same value caliber to someone who does college right, but if you average the value out nationally across All students, martials arts, gym memberships, and rec league sports, and dance actually have more value. Go figure.
Again, for the people who do it right and know going in what to expect from their college program(s) to maximize what they get out of it, there is not as much comparison.

 

[Faith]

So some updates from me after the last days..
I decided to speak with the other master in my club, he is a pretty desent guy but he is not the main-instructor. He is a 4th dan within the same organization as well. He is very absent in the trainings and showing up kind of just for the tests where we need another master. (The rules is that the master cannot test his own students).

He is unsure about the rules, but he kind of understand me. So he was suggesting that he might try to hear with the leadership of the organization, and perhaps the main-instructor to have a local testpanel in my club with a 6. or 7. dan from the organisation or another club, including my master at the panel.

I really like this idea, but I have a strong feeling that the master who is the main-instructor don't like the idea and im back to where I was.
However, fingers crossed!

 

[Earl Weiss]

............................. First, I was mainly pointing to what is often a toxic relationship where you feel indebted to the teacher and are willing to bend over backwards for them out of a sense of duty. Second, most students do view it as a business transaction, regardless of how the instructors may feel. ............................. Finally, the college comparison is flawed. People aren't going to college to learn, really. They're going to get a degree and have verifiable evidence that they've learned X to help them in their career path. ...............................

First - Agreed. Should not be Toxic- Nor should it be simply consumer oriented if it is truly a student instructor relationship.
Second - I understand that initially it ill be viewed s a business transaction and that we compete for the leisure dollar. Over time I would hope there is an understanding that it is something more.
"

People aren't going to college to learn, really."

All the more reason the MA lessons are more valuable.

 

[drop bear]

As you said, I don't mean to derail the thread too much, but your college comments were a bit off to me.
For clarity, I went to college a Looong time ago and have two Master degrees plus various work-related certifications. I never felt like the degrees really changed my career trajectory all that much. Beyond getting some stupid questions out of the way at staff meetings, it was more about fulfilling my own accomplishments that I did not finish when I was younger. In this respect, I agree with what you said.
In this era, yes, not all people go to college to learn. But it should Never be that way in reality. For too many it is just an extension of high school, and 2-4 years or more largely wasted. Buuut, for those who do it right there is a great learning process going on that greatly helps them post college and in their career.
That said, a considerable amount of applicable education/training is learned on the job. There is just too much specificity in certain jobs to cover everything in college.
I don't think the average martial arts program is quite up to the same value caliber to someone who does college right, but if you average the value out nationally across All students, martials arts, gym memberships, and rec league sports, and dance actually have more value. Go figure.
Again, for the people who do it right and know going in what to expect from their college program(s) to maximize what they get out of it, there is not as much comparison.

And school teachers go to university.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

As you said, I don't mean to derail the thread too much, but your college comments were a bit off to me.
For clarity, I went to college a Looong time ago and have two Master degrees plus various work-related certifications. I never felt like the degrees really changed my career trajectory all that much. Beyond getting some stupid questions out of the way at staff meetings, it was more about fulfilling my own accomplishments that I did not finish when I was younger. In this respect, I agree with what you said.
In this era, yes, not all people go to college to learn. But it should Never be that way in reality. For too many it is just an extension of high school, and 2-4 years or more largely wasted. Buuut, for those who do it right there is a great learning process going on that greatly helps them post college and in their career.
That said, a considerable amount of applicable education/training is learned on the job. There is just too much specificity in certain jobs to cover everything in college.
I don't think the average martial arts program is quite up to the same value caliber to someone who does college right, but if you average the value out nationally across All students, martials arts, gym memberships, and rec league sports, and dance actually have more value. Go figure.
Again, for the people who do it right and know going in what to expect from their college program(s) to maximize what they get out of it, there is not as much comparison.

The only point I'd really argue here is that about gym memberships, on average, being quite valuable. There are an awful lot of gym memberships that go largely (or even entirely) unused, for any number of reasons. It'd be hard to figure out what that percentage is unless you work at a gym, but folks I've talked to in the industry tell me it's far more than I'd have expected.

My point is that the gym membership is valuable if you use it well. Which is the same point you made about college. And the same point I'd make about MA. I think it's universal - you get more out if you put more in (and if you are more interested, which also leads to putting more in).

I'd also argue about the value of your degrees - separate and apart from the value of your education - but I doubt I'd convince you.