Bilderberg group...

[Cruentus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

Bilderberg group... thoughts?

Feelings about groups like these range from many different extremes; from "who cares" to "they are taking over the planet!"

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on such subjects.

 

[newGuy12]

These are very prominent people. People who can get things done. Big things.

 

[Sukerkin]

It is not exactly shocking news that those in the positions of political and financial authority choose to broadly orchestrate world affairs so that those affairs operate in the favour of themselves and their peers.

It's sad and can be unhealthy for the rest of us 'poor folk' but there's not a lot to be done about it until the overall nature of economics and politics changes.

When will the world will be free of the 'sub rosa' influence of such affiliations of the powerful?

Well, we're entering a period of greater totalitarianism than we've seen for a while and I suspect that the manipulation of events will grow more strong (including the outbreak of open war) before things improve again for the 'commoner'. History has recorded a great many such waxing and wanings of wealth and altho' sometimes wrapped up in the shroud of religious as well as economic power, the overall effect of these 'fluctuations' has been the channeling of money into certain paths.

That's what it all boils down to in the end.

 

[tellner]

The conspiracy nutjobs love to bring it up with vague hushed pronouncements about "International Bankers" (an old code word for "Jews"), the Communist Conspiracy, Satanism, Secularism, the New World Order and anything else that bubbles up out of the bubble of toxic lard at the top of their spines. The wonderful thing about it is that you can speculate wildly and say that you have secret information that you heard from a reliable source that makes them responsible for anything you can imagine.

So what do we know?

There is no "Bilderberg Group" per se. There's a conference of a hundred or so rich, powerful and influential people and their invited guests which meets at a different location every year to discuss matters of mutual interest. Their first meeting was in 1954 at the Bilderberg Hotel in the Netherlands. The Slope Headed Brigade usually implies that the name is significant and whispers something about Jew-Commie-Bankers. It's the name of a hotel. If they met at the Holiday Inn back in the day would they be the mysterious shadowy "Holiday Inn Group"?

Even if it were a unified conspiracy it would not be the first, the biggest, the most influential or the most dangerous. There's the Bohemian Club, much bigger, much more powerful. There are the Dominionist and Christian Reconstruction groups like the Center for Reclaiming America for Christ. There was PNAC which has dictated our disastrous foreign policy right up until a few months ago when it officially disbanded saying "Mission Accomplished". There are the formal and informal relations between the billionaires about whom The Decider said (on video) "you're my base: the haves and the have mores."

These are the real elites who run the world. They don't need a hotel or a conference to rule us. And they aren't communists or liberals. They represent pure unbridled power and utter contempt for the little people like you and me.

 

[Cruentus]

I don't really think there is any "conspiracy" with these groups. I am refering to everything from Bilderberg's to Bohemian's to Mason's to Religious Coalitions. It's simple group psychology and capitalism. Like people hang around with other like people with like interests. If you are part of a wealthy elite, you hang around with other wealthy elites and talk about like concerns. Groups also tend to think they have "something" that others don't. Sometimes that is harmless, and for example it might mean that you believe in your Jung discussion group that you're group has a unique perspective on human psychology. It could also mean something a little more impacting depending on how far it is taken; that your group and the people in it are more "blessed" or "worthy" or "better" then others.

When a normal person hears about (or see's pictures or video) of some of the going on's in Bohemian Grove rituals or Masonic rituals or Skull and Bones rituals, the average person pretty much reacts like, "what the hell?" Most don't understand it because most people don't relish in the idea that they are better and more superior then others. If you put yourself in the perspective of someone who is an elitist, and who really believes that they are so much better then others, and that there decisions and actions as so much more meaningful then the rest of the populus, then the rituals start to make sense. You can see why these were created, and the symbolism. Most are just keeping with tradition, but it is a tradition of elitism all the same.

There is no conspiracy here. It is simply like people gathering for like interests, and it is simple elitism that exists in many group dynamics.

And for some, probably most, this doesn't go much further then a social/business gathering and an opportunity to network and maybe have a little fun. For others, elitist ideals can be taken too far (can be seen in examples extending from Nazism to Eugenics programs).

And as far as policy and business decisions are concerned, contacts are made and things are discussed at these gatherings. In business, we call this networking.

And yes, some network at private meetings and discussion groups and gatherings and cooperate to influence policy. But this is no different then corporate dinners, cabinet meetings, and board room think tanks.

So, I don't believe that there is any vast conspiracy at work. I think it is simply the way things are, and have been done, for some time. Also, I don't think that there is some sort of grand plan at work, either. When we look at all aspects of our social economic environment, it is a serious of chaotic trends, and nothing more. Everything from big business, to politics, to the military, to the stock market; you name it. There is no evidence of a "grand plan" conspired by a few individuals at work here. And to really believe that, to me, is absurd.

But that said, people do have interests that aren't always fitting with the greater social good.

The key is, that we protect ourselves from policy decisions that might hurt us through our votes, our participation in our government, and through our system. We need to make sure that the decision makers we hire aren't beholden to lobbyist and private interests, but who will hear our voice and make decisions to maintain our civil liberties, our soverienty, and our freedoms.

And I think that is something worth spending time on, rather then wasting time concocting conspiracies, and boarding up with conspiracy groups who exhibit their own brand of elitism, essentially the same mistake made by the people they are so critical of.

C.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

If its a bunch of middle class guys getting together to socialize/network/drink beer they are Masons/Elks/Moose Lodge etc and nobody thinks much about it. If they are rich guys, they are a cabal trying to rule the world.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I blame the Knights Templar they are behind it all… I have names and pictures… I must tell the world….hey…who are you….. put that down....

ARRRRGH!!!!


I am so very sorry I apologize xue sheng…err...or… I mean… I know nothing.

 

[newGuy12]

If its a bunch of middle class guys getting together to socialize/network/drink beer they are Masons/Elks/Moose Lodge etc and nobody thinks much about it.

What's the greatest harm that a bunch of middle class guys can do? In most cases (unless one of them is a genius) not much.

If they are rich guys, they are a cabal trying to rule the world.

Not necessarily a cabal trying to rule the world, but these people WILL act in their own best interest, and if their actions cause harm to others, it won't even begin to slow them down. And these people have real power, real influence. They are real players. They OUTSOURCE their selfdefense!

People will always hang out with their own kind, but make no mistake, there's no love for the common people among them.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

True. But unless they are doing something illegal....I dont like the idea of "outlawing" free association of any group in this country unless they are involved in illegality. There should be equal justice under the law. I dont think the rich should get away with something because they are rich, but I dont want them persecuted either.

 

[newGuy12]

True. But unless they are doing something illegal....I dont like the idea of "outlawing" free association of any group in this country unless they are involved in illegality. There should be equal justice under the law. I dont think the rich should get away with something because they are rich, but I dont want them persecuted either.

Nor do I, not that it really matters. These people are as close to being above the law as one can be. They own officials in governments. They will meet anywhere and anytime they wish to.

 

[Cruentus]

True. But unless they are doing something illegal....I dont like the idea of "outlawing" free association of any group in this country unless they are involved in illegality. There should be equal justice under the law. I dont think the rich should get away with something because they are rich, but I dont want them persecuted either.

I agree. That is why I stress the importance of using our constitution to protect our civil liberties, and a representative government based on a democratic process as a means to protect us from the potential harm of special interests.

 

[newGuy12]

I agree. That is why I stress the importance of using our constitution to protect our civil liberties, and a representative government based on a democratic process as a means to protect us from the potential harm of special interests.

With all due respect, Sir, if that's what we are going to rely on, we'd better start now, before its too late.

 

[Makalakumu]

Why is it so hard to imagine a group of the ultra elite getting together to arrange things to suit their own interests? One would think from some comments that this has never happened in the course of human history! Of course people are going to form social groups to promote their own interests. Of course very elite people are going to do the things that every other homo sapien does.

Are groups like the Bilderberg group, CFR, Bohemian club, etc important because they are composed of the some of the most rich and powerful people in the world? Of course. Do they talk about how to shape world events so that the membership benefits? Of course. Many of the membership in these groups have had their fingers on some of the most sensitive world affairs for years and years and years.

Do people need to invent crazy stories about these groups...saying things like these groups are attended by 12 foot tall multi-dimensional reptile aliens? No. These are people doing the same things other people do, but on a much larger scale.

Are some of the things they decide to do bad for the common folk? Damned right they are. Are some of the things they decide good? Certainly. How does that fall outside the norm of human behavior though?

Do people need to be aware of these groups and what they do? Yes. And there is nothing inheritly racist of anti-semetic about saying that. Nor is there anything wrong with pointing out the fact that many of the most prominant "international bankers" started and currently attend such gatherings.

The bottom line is that what these people decide has the potential to greatly affect my life. I want to know who these people are. I want to know what they decide. I want to know so I can be part of another group that will advocate for my interests.

 

[Cruentus]

Most people would agree that like people, elite or not, get together to suit their own interests. If these weren't "ultra-elites" we would be talking about normal business meetings or elks club gatherings.

But we need to put our finger on where I and where the conspiracy theorists differ (if only to simply articulate what others who don't buy into the conspiracy theories would agree on).

One common presumption is that these "elite" have some sort of grand scheme in mind. Whether the conspiracy is a world-wide eugenics program, neo-nazism, bio-communism, genocidic enviromentalism, or nano-tech cyborgs, the presumption is always the same: that groups like these pull the puppet strings for all world events ranging from the Iraq war to Aids in Africa.

What I propose is that there is no such "grand scheme." There is no real evidence that any of these people are working together to tailor world events to fit their needs. The evidence, in fact, shows that world events, the stock market, the economy, politics, and so forth all follow chaotic trends. If there was a grand scheme, then there would not be so much conflict and contradiction, and not just in the world, but among the very people who attend these same meetings.

What you have is like people securing interests, plain and simple.

Unfortunatily, we need to be aware that there are people out there who do secure private interest through our government in ways that do not benefit the public, and we need to fight this by actively participating in the government process.

 

[Sukerkin]

I just wanted to say a hearty well done to everyone for steering this thread where it needed to go and keeping it civil and level headed.

It's not an uber-Lizard-Alien conspiracy to speak of these groups having a 'plan'. Cruentis said it a good way above, they're securing their interests. When those interests are backed by unimaginable sums of money and the influence it buys, the chaotic flows of world affairs become somewhat amenable to direction.

Sadly, the likes of us have no chance of having a noticeable impact on the chaos, even when banded together in a democracy (those we vote in, whatever their political 'colour', are the very ones the Mega-Haves seek to influence).

'Backroom' agreements, by which I mean decisions taken outside of public purview, have always been the impetous that made the wheel of the world turn in favour of the powerful. It's only in recent times that the idea that it is otherwise has become the one to hold sway (probably because we in the West chose to believe the comfortable notion that having a vote put the power in the hands of the people).

It's the reality of world affairs and as I said in my earlier post, I don't see it changing any time soon. All we can do is try and survive - as a certain Mr. Baadfarst (sp) once said, "I'd far rather be happy than right ..." .

 

[Makalakumu]

What I would like to entreat everybody to think about is just how much effect these groups can have on world events. Cruentus would have us believe that they have very little effect and that most events are entirely random in nature. I happen to think that events are more "directed" then that. It only makes sense if you really understand what kind of influence the uber-elite wield. Especially on countries that do not have strong democracies!

And then I think that one needs to consider the influence that private central banks can have within a country and on other countries. There is a reason why our Republic fought a central bank and why our Founding Fathers thought that these central banks were one of the biggest threats to sovereignty and freedom that existed.

I can't tell you how this all adds up, but I can tell you that it only makes sense that it is more then the attribution of world events to mostly random happenings.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

The Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, the London nail-bomber David Copeland and Osama Bin Laden are all said to have bought into the theory that Bilderberg pulls the strings with which national governments dance.

Heh!

 

[Cruentus]

What I would like to entreat everybody to think about is just how much effect these groups can have on world events. Cruentus would have us believe that they have very little effect and that most events are entirely random in nature. I happen to think that events are more "directed" then that. It only makes sense if you really understand what kind of influence the uber-elite wield. Especially on countries that do not have strong democracies!

And then I think that one needs to consider the influence that private central banks can have within a country and on other countries. There is a reason why our Republic fought a central bank and why our Founding Fathers thought that these central banks were one of the biggest threats to sovereignty and freedom that existed.

I can't tell you how this all adds up, but I can tell you that it only makes sense that it is more then the attribution of world events to mostly random happenings.

Notice I said "chaotic trends" rather then entirely random. There is a difference, my friend.

Whether you agree with his political stance or not, the classic "Manufactured Consent" by Chomsky makes a very valid point, in that nothing happens without the consent of the people. This is why PR is such a big business nowadays; special interests need to "manufacture" the consent of the public to accomplish goals. This is less so in societies that aren't democratic.

There are models for how this works, but in a nutshell, consent of the populus is what is required to get things done. What occurs or does not occur is a direct function of what the public allows.

Conspiracies that describe an endgame of a global elite enslaving the masses overlook this principle. That would never fully happen. And even if all members of the "global elite" wanted this to occur, they know that it never would. People will consent (read: give in) for awhile and up to a certain point, but ultimatily they will revolt and overthrow tyrannical ruling classes.

Furthermore, it is quite evident that the "Global Elite" are in conflict over what should or should not occur anyhow. Amongst each other, they disagree on policies ranging from the Iraq war to healthcare. It is evident by their actions and conflicts that they work for their own interests, whatever they may be, and not that of an elite ruling cabal.

Not to mention these people may have influence, but only to a certain degree. How much influence they actually have is greatly overestimated by conspiracy theorists. Example: The CEO of GM, Richard Wagoner, is very influential to GM, but he is not the entire company. He may be able to set some things in motion, but he couldn't, say, conspire with Tillerson from ExxonMobile at a Bohemian Grove party to supress fuel cell technology without involving the entire Board of Directors from GM, and many Engineers, project managers, and executives. Someone would blow the whistle. Wagoner may be a large wheel in the GM machine, but there are many other cogs in that machine that would have to consent and remain silent to a conspiracy as well. As we know from history, that never happens. And this is only isolating 2 companies; if we involve all car companies and all energy companies (which would be required to actually accomplish something like supression of efficient fuel cell technology) then the conspiracy gets bigger and bigger. It gets too big to comprehend, or even reasonably consider.

I think that people greatly overestimate the "power" that these people wield. They can definatly set some things in motion, but they cannot simply conspire to do whatever they want because there are too many moving parts.

It requires many people to get things done, for better or for worse. This is why you have "chaotic trends," but there is no consistent direction with an endgame that is occurring, or that could possibly be directed by a small group of elite rulers. Thank god, life simply does not work that way.

 

[Cruentus]

Heh!

Funny, but scary too. I think that is why people really need to be objective. Some of these conspiracy bloggers and personalities claim to be like a modern day freedom fighter. But what they are really doing is presenting a very unbalanced (and unfounded) negative view of the world. If someone goes too far down that road, you end up with a Mcveigh or Bin Laden. I am glad that article makes the connection to those individuals. I think that people need to be careful that they don't propigate this negativity.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Hari Seldon says "Hi"