Biggest looser real looser
- Thread starter Master Dan
- Start date
More interesting would be a source. Pubmed's drawing a blank.
Bruno@MT
Senior Master
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Imo MA teachers should teach MA and leave the lifestyle market to others. Personally I think that MA studio should be about MA and not about increasing profits through business opportunities related to physical activity.
As soon as MA teachers need to focus on making 'real money', I think their priorities are out of whack.
Amen!!! Speaking for myself only here, as I know everyone has diffeent reasons for training, but for me, my goal is self defense. I view everything else, ie: better fitness, stronger, more stamina, flexibility, etc, as side benefits. I dont do to class to get stronger, I lift weights for that, but I gain strength from the exercises. I dont go to class to meet people, although I've met some fantastic people as a result of training.
Of course, what you quoted sounds so typical of sooooo many schools today....they dont give a **** about the quality of the students, as long as they can brag that they have hundreds coming in, and are making that cash.
While I do not care for the OP's tone I will say that from all accounts in my dealing with professional's in the health and fitness arena they all feel that Jillian is completely unqualified to be doing what she does. That and the means she generally uses are unsafe for the contestants. That being said the show and both Bob and Jillian do get some results. The question for the contestants is can they keep the weight off long term. (that is very hard once back in the real world)
Could you expand on this Brian? What are the differences between what she does and her training background, vs. a trainer that you'd see in a gym?
Agreed! However, there have been many contestants who've managed to keep it off. Alli comes to mind, from a few seasons ago.
No doubt some have kept it off while others have put back on quite a bit. Once back in the real world with all the distractions that are had and the choices it is hard for many of them to maintain there end of the season weight. Still quite a few also do maintain it because they are finally exercising.
Jillian apparently had physical trainer credentials a long time ago but never recertified or kept up to date before the show! That and since the show's become a hit she has been coming out with this and that to make money. ie. yoga dvd's and the absolutely by all accounts one of the worst kebblebell dvd's ever. (bad form, dangerous practice, etc.) Here is link to my friend's facebook page who is one of the best kettlebell instructor's in the world scroll down the page click older posts and see the one on Jillian also check out the comments: http://www.facebook.com/#!/ken.blackburn
Also Los Angeles Times article: http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ess-jillian-michaels-20101011,0,5152686.story
My perspective on health, wellness and fitness was before I went fully into criminal justice I had roughy two years in sports medicine in College. I think the practices Jillian does would damage a lot of people if replicated on a large scale. Just my 02.
Jillian apparently had physical trainer credentials a long time ago but never recertified or kept up to date before the show! That and since the show's become a hit she has been coming out with this and that to make money. ie. yoga dvd's and the absolutely by all accounts one of the worst kebblebell dvd's ever. (bad form, dangerous practice, etc.) Here is link to my friend's facebook page who is one of the best kettlebell instructor's in the world scroll down the page click older posts and see the one on Jillian also check out the comments: http://www.facebook.com/#!/ken.blackburn
Also Los Angeles Times article: http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ess-jillian-michaels-20101011,0,5152686.story
My perspective on health, wellness and fitness was before I went fully into criminal justice I had roughy two years in sports medicine in College. I think the practices Jillian does would damage a lot of people if replicated on a large scale. Just my 02.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #29
thank you good points I appologize to the MA talk if i started with an inapropirate word or two. Some times I know there are some really good people out there with great knowledge but seldom take the time speak or are reluctant because they don't wish to be targets of negative comments. So I jump in and push the edge a bit so while I have a big target on my back they will be motivated to respond with constructive input.
About my being rude? I think it is far more rude to condone exploitation of weak or vulnerable people for income or entertainment. As far as know it all? I aggree with certifications and qualifications but that dose not eliminate professionals personal mental or educational issues that combined with thier ego they make neglegent decisions that hurt or even kill people on a regular basis.
Case in point my daughter had a brain bleed the replacement Neuro surgeon that had place the origin brain shunt said call the family in and say good by.
In walks our original surgeon strait from Desert Storm with his boots still on and states I told that doctoctor to stop using that brain shunt 15 years ago if the kid bumps thier head it causes a bleed, I can fix this. 4 hours later after brain surgery she was laughing in her Great Grand mothers arms.
They used to call the other doctor dr. God because who would not listen to anyone. Thats a very bad know it all unwilling to change or learn anything even at the risk of other people getting hurt or killed.
If I bring up an issue or topic its not to preach to those who already know but in the hopes some who would like to do more for others might be motivated to do more or learn more to help others thats all.
Biggest Looser may be entertaining to some but it is ridicule to others and legitimizes Jillians training methods. I am saying as instructor you can work with people under the supervision and approval of professionals while learning your self instead of do this or that to look like me or some image putting them at risk.
Thanks Brian. A few more questions for you.
1) What are your thoughts on Bob?
2) Are Jillians creds. UTD now? If so, then I'd say theres no issue. If they are not UTD, then how could a show go on giving the impression that she's a legit trainer? Wouldn't that be like me going to work as a mechanic at a car dealership....but not knowing a clue about cars?
Nomad
Master Black Belt
Not that it's my favorite show or anything, but I have watched occasionally. They don't have skinny bouncing spandex wearing beautiful people in the gym... it's other folks with problems (obesity, depression, and so on) exactly like theirs. This creates a team atmosphere and allows them to draw inspiration from one another.
They do have a team of physicians there to monitor the health of the contestants, and there have been remarkably few injuries on the set for such big people who are obviously not used to physical exercise.
Finally, in almost every episode I've seen (contrived or not is difficult to say), someone breaks down emotionally and hits on some of the root causes of their obesity, often rooted in the depression you speak of. To a large extent, it's addressing this that allows the person to move forward and self-motivate.
The dangers, IMO, lie mostly in people getting inspired to try this on their own, without the qualified medical and professional help that the show obviously has as a resource. Or in heading to the local gym and expecting the same kind of knowledge base in a trainer who may have had vastly less experience and training in obesity related issues. These are far more likely to lead people to serious injuries than the show.
On the other hand, when you get that large, there are usually some serious health problems (diabetes, heart conditions, joint issues, and so on) already going on that may just end up killing you if you don't do something about them. Personally, I think the inspiration to get up and do something is worth more than the potential risks of injury from someone doing it wrong.
Probably one of the best posts I've read so far! These are some of the very points that I tried to make earlier. Every single person there, has the same issue.....being over weight. While they're all competing against each other, there is a huge amount of teamwork with all involved. I"m sure theres quite a bit going on behind the scenes that we dont see.
Thanks Brian. A few more questions for you.
1) What are your thoughts on Bob?
2) Are Jillians creds. UTD now? If so, then I'd say theres no issue. If they are not UTD, then how could a show go on giving the impression that she's a legit trainer? Wouldn't that be like me going to work as a mechanic at a car dealership....but not knowing a clue about cars?
I am under the impression from other trainers that her credentials are not up to date. However, that could easily be wrong and fixed in a heart beat.
As for Bob I do not think anyone has an issue with him professionally with credentials.
What get's most of the trainers that I have talked to riled is some of the things that they have these incredibly over weight people do. Such as jumping up or down off of podiums/blocks. (depth jumps) That considering the enormous weight coming down on the knees is very risky. Incorrect lifting or kettle bell lifting form. There are several others but I do not have the time to get into them.
It is a similar situation to Ceasar Milano the "Dog Whisperer". Several dog trainers that I know cringe at his approach on certain things. They do not necessarily have respect for how he does things.
I imagine it is similar to when you or I watch a show and they have martial arts in them and we say oh that is terrible or my wife the doctor watches a medical show and laughs and say's that is ridiculous. Experts in their field rarely like a show on TV that is or has a lot of producer involvement. In other words they have to be near perfect for us to give them a thumbs up!
Having said all the above "The Biggest Loser" and the "Dog Whisperer" are great entertainment!
OK, so no one else has bitten yet, so I will .what specific breakdown in western civilization are you talking about?
Thanks Brian.
Like I said, my wife and I watch the show weekly and I've said the same thing to her...how the hell can someone, who weighs 400+lbs, who only exercises by lifting fork to mouth and sits on their rear, possibly run a half marathon, do 500 steps on a stepper, etc.? I dont know...its certainly crazy. LOL. But then again, one would think....and hope...that if something was that bad, why isn't it being addressed? When I got my dog, a German Shepherd/Husky mix, I worked with 2 different trainers. Both had their own unique way of working with me and the dog. I'll watch Cesar from time to time as well. Comparing my trainers methods to his....well, lets say there were differences.
There were things that were the same, to a point, but yeah, I've heard people complain about him as well. Is he right? Are the other 2 trainers right? Dont know...I'm not a trainer. LOL. But I will say that I've employed the methods that they taught me, and the dog has improved. Of course, I've had him for 6yrs, so God, I'd hope he'd improve. LOL. I will say though that Cesar does make some good points about the pack leader stuff. I imagine it is similar to when you or I watch a show and they have martial arts in them and we say oh that is terrible or my wife the doctor watches a medical show and laughs and say's that is ridiculous. Experts in their field rarely like a show on TV that is or has a lot of producer involvement. In other words they have to be near perfect for us to give them a thumbs up!
Having said all the above "The Biggest Loser" and the "Dog Whisperer" are great entertainment!
Exactly!
I remember a few quotes, "Patience is a virtue", "Good things come to those who wait" being western wisdoms; So, the desire to have it all right now would be a sign of impatience; hence, its a break down.
sean
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I think a big point of the show is to get people to realize that they are usually capable of much more than they think they are.
that's been a big beef of mine for a long time. I believe that most people simply don't believe they are capable of much, and they live up to that expectation quite nicely.
We are constantly conditioned to believe that we can only be mediocre. We are told, well once you reach X age, you gotta start being careful, you are gonna have THIS and THAT problem, your health could suffer if you so much as walk down the street.. I call Bull-****. How would we feel, what would we believe we could accomplish, if we didn't keep track of age?
Getting people off the couch and getting them to recognize their own potential is a huge step, and that's what the show does. People who got so out of shape that they can't even walk around the block without getting winded, and then getting them eventually to be able to run a half marathon, it speaks to the potential that we all have in us.
If you want it badly enough, you can do it, you can make it happen. You may need guidance, if you have no experience with something you need to get educated to make sure you do it right and don't injure yourself, you need to know how to monitor your progress and avoid injury. But you can do it.
Societally, we need to reject the notion that we can only be mediocre, and start finding out what we can accomplish.
In a small way, I've had this discovery myself. I've always been motivated when it comes to training. I don't need someone else pushing me to train. A year and a half ago I was given the opportunity to train with my sigung. Sifu took me to meet him, and sigung agreed to let me join his training sessions. It was something I had hoped for, for years. I was ecstatic. But Sigung holds sessions from 9:00 pm to Midnight. The problem is, I'm not a good late night person. I'm a morning person. But I really wanted to train with him. So I figured out how to make it work for me, and I do it. I love it. I feel like I'm in a Shaw Brothers movie, trainining in the dark in his back yard where nobody else can see us. It was a small step, but I had to move outside of my comfort zone, to do this. I wanted to bad enough to do so.
that's been a big beef of mine for a long time. I believe that most people simply don't believe they are capable of much, and they live up to that expectation quite nicely.
We are constantly conditioned to believe that we can only be mediocre. We are told, well once you reach X age, you gotta start being careful, you are gonna have THIS and THAT problem, your health could suffer if you so much as walk down the street.. I call Bull-****. How would we feel, what would we believe we could accomplish, if we didn't keep track of age?
Getting people off the couch and getting them to recognize their own potential is a huge step, and that's what the show does. People who got so out of shape that they can't even walk around the block without getting winded, and then getting them eventually to be able to run a half marathon, it speaks to the potential that we all have in us.
If you want it badly enough, you can do it, you can make it happen. You may need guidance, if you have no experience with something you need to get educated to make sure you do it right and don't injure yourself, you need to know how to monitor your progress and avoid injury. But you can do it.
Societally, we need to reject the notion that we can only be mediocre, and start finding out what we can accomplish.
In a small way, I've had this discovery myself. I've always been motivated when it comes to training. I don't need someone else pushing me to train. A year and a half ago I was given the opportunity to train with my sigung. Sifu took me to meet him, and sigung agreed to let me join his training sessions. It was something I had hoped for, for years. I was ecstatic. But Sigung holds sessions from 9:00 pm to Midnight. The problem is, I'm not a good late night person. I'm a morning person. But I really wanted to train with him. So I figured out how to make it work for me, and I do it. I love it. I feel like I'm in a Shaw Brothers movie, trainining in the dark in his back yard where nobody else can see us. It was a small step, but I had to move outside of my comfort zone, to do this. I wanted to bad enough to do so.
Nomad
Master Black Belt
I am under the impression from other trainers that her credentials are not up to date. However, that could easily be wrong and fixed in a heart beat.
As for Bob I do not think anyone has an issue with him professionally with credentials.
What get's most of the trainers that I have talked to riled is some of the things that they have these incredibly over weight people do. Such as jumping up or down off of podiums/blocks. (depth jumps) That considering the enormous weight coming down on the knees is very risky. Incorrect lifting or kettle bell lifting form. There are several others but I do not have the time to get into them.
It is a similar situation to Ceasar Milano the "Dog Whisperer". Several dog trainers that I know cringe at his approach on certain things. They do not necessarily have respect for how he does things.
I imagine it is similar to when you or I watch a show and they have martial arts in them and we say oh that is terrible or my wife the doctor watches a medical show and laughs and say's that is ridiculous. Experts in their field rarely like a show on TV that is or has a lot of producer involvement. In other words they have to be near perfect for us to give them a thumbs up!
Having said all the above "The Biggest Loser" and the "Dog Whisperer" are great entertainment!
How often do any "experts" in their field agree with one another? In the example of dog training, there are many different training methods out there, most of which are likely to produce results. Which is the best? That probably depends on which trainer you're talking to at the time.
The same goes with personal trainers, especially if they've been trained under different systems with different approaches. Is the biggest loser methodology the "best" way? It depends on how you measure it. They certainly do get dramatic results from the majority of the people on the show, and I haven't heard many reports of injuries sustained while under their supervision over the last several seasons.
Quick. Which is the best martial art?
How many martial artists look at the way someone in another style throws a basic technique, and pick apart the details? While the mechanics are undoubtedly important, it's been shown that there are multiple variations in form which also work.
I agree.
Personally, I've found that the most important factor of an exercise program is sticking with it. However, I don't think anyone can be forced or goaded in to sticking to an exercise program.
One factor is enjoyment. Maybe people enjoy trotting endlessly on a treadmill...my hat is off to them if they do. I find working out at the gym to be maddeningly tedious.
Another factor is how it fits your life. If a person wants to do (say) Parkour...and enrolls in a Parkour class...only to find that their family routine gets tossed on its head because now its hardly ever possible to (say) eat together as a family....is this really a benefit? Of if the class suddenly makes one's commute or daycare/aftercare obligations far more complicated...putting additional pressure on one's life...is this really a benefit?
To me it seems that the people that have been the most successful with not only getting active but STAYING active have managed to do it by finding something they love, in a way that fits their life. The impetus that actually got me in to a martial arts school for the first time was because I needed something to do during my mandated lunch break...and hoped that such an activity would also be something I could skip the rush hour traffic. I gotta say...doing Kenpo instead of staring at the cafeteria walls for an hour, was fun...but doing Kenpo instead of sitting on a congested interstate was bloody awesome!!
What is right for another person? Maybe it is working out of the gym, with its flexible hours and variety of exercise programs. Or falling in love with TKD and going to class 4-5 nights a week. Or choosing to commute on a bike. Or taking dance lessons and dancing a few days a week. For me, its hiking or photography. Photography doesn't sound like a strenuous hobby, but on my last cityscape/architecture shot I did, I mapped the route I took and realized that over the course of the shoot, I had walked about 5 miles. That's a respectable exercise, even with the occasional stops to shoot my subjects. Either way, I think adults are more likely to do something if that something doesn't stress them out.
A final thought, is the perception is that being overweight automatically equates to being out of shape. An overweight person can be very active and have good cardio fitness. I'm also a bit tired of the people that denigrate people simply for being overweight. Personally I don't find scorn to be particularly motivating, but the people that have reached out a hand and say "maybe we can work towards our goals together" have been the people that have literally changed my life. I hope I returned the favor by reaching out for their hand and trying and matching their enthusiasm.
I have never seen the show the Biggest Loser. But personally? While I think, realistically, sticking with an exercise program takes a bit more than "just do it", it doesn't take a lot more. It certainly doesn't take a personal stalff and a TV Production. A lot can be gained with a little motivation, a little creativity, and a dose of pragmatism. Once you discover what you love to do - whatever that is - it will become very hard for you to quit.
How often do any "experts" in their field agree with one another? In the example of dog training, there are many different training methods out there, most of which are likely to produce results. Which is the best? That probably depends on which trainer you're talking to at the time.
The same goes with personal trainers, especially if they've been trained under different systems with different approaches. Is the biggest loser methodology the "best" way? It depends on how you measure it. They certainly do get dramatic results from the majority of the people on the show, and I haven't heard many reports of injuries sustained while under their supervision over the last several seasons.
Quick. Which is the best martial art?
Well in general many "experts" will disagree in regards to many different things. Yet, quite often they will agree to a tee when they see someone doing some thing dangerous or if someone claims to be an expert and they simply are not. We have the same thing here in the Martial Arts world. Very few people take Ashida Kim, Frank Dux and a myriad of other people seriously. Now, do not think I am painting Jillian or Ceasar in that light but....... I have been in a room with other professionals in those areas where they did!
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