Beware of the Certificates...

[stone_dragone]

While skimming the internet a few weeks ago, I found a few sites where people post their hard earned certificates as either historical reference or back up to an argument or something else. Shortly there-after read a thread on MT that asked if posting rank was a good thing or a bad thing (no decision for me either way...different topic).

My little criminal mind began to churn and I thought about how difficult it would be for someone to fake said certificate...and I set myself to the task of trying (purely for the educational aspect). Attached is the fruit of my effort...

The point of this is to show that you should never take someone's word online without extensive research to back it up -- at least in things that matter, that is.

Also, I can reproduce the results for a nominal fee... [evil grin, wrings hands]

 

[shesulsa]

I was told to (and never will) post my certificate on the internet for this specific reason.

 

[Kacey]

People who know me, know my instructor, and his instructor, and therefore know who can vouch for my rank. People who don't know me can contact one of them for information. People who aren't willing to take my word, or contact one of the above... well... that's their problem, not mine. Therefore, I see no reason to post reproductions of my certificates.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, let's face it, since very few dojo have any relationship to any universal standardized curriculum, it's not only ridiculous to post your certificate, but IMO it's equally ridiculous to state your rank! MT's own poll showed that even reaching shodan takes different periods of time.

If you've been training consistently and hard for 9 years and you're 4th kyu in your dojo, are you less skilled than someone who earned their black belt in 3 years? I don't think so. To quote a friend, "It doesn't matter if you're a black belt after 3 years...as long as you realize you've only been training for 3 years."

Another thing I find amusing is a person who says, "I'm a black belt in jujutsu," and when you ask them where they train, they say, "Oh, I haven't trained in 20 years." Yeah.

 

[stoneheart]

Yup, I echo what everyone else says. Nothing matters but what happens on the mat and in the street. I've been beaten by brown belts before in the dojo and I've also controlled and out-sparring my share of nidans and sandans too.

My certificates only mean something to me and to people who may belong to the same organization. The mugger on the street needless to say won't be impressed by them.

 

[MJS]

Todays technology is really amazing and it just goes to show that one needs to be cautious when joining a school, as we can see how easy it is to reproduce a certificate. Between that, and ones that offer to send a certificate along with the video training program, in addition to a black belt, you really have to do your homework.

As for posting things...not a good idea IMO. As stoneheart said, what matters is what happens on the mat and on the street. No certificate in the world is going to fight for me, so I better be able to back up my stuff.

Mike

 

[agemechanic03]

I will also add that there is no NUMBER... I know with my art (Tang Soo Do) and many other arts, you get a number that stays with you till the day you die. And also with mine, all you have to do is call Seoul, S Korea, where my current headquarters is located to see if the number is legit. Of course, depending on the style, yours will be in a different place.

 

[wade]

I have no problem with posting my certificates on the INTERNET, that being said, there are a hell of a lot of younger martial artiest, my own being among them, that I will not get into the ring with. Rank does not mean that you are invincible, it just means that you have rank. I might be crazy but I am not stupid. If someone wants to copy my certificate, or any KKW certificate it won't be that hard. It doesn't change who I am or who they are, as Kacey said, people know who she is........nuff said.

 

[DArnold]

I don't know.
What's the value of an overpriced piece of paper?

 

[still learning]

Hello, Certificates, Titles, Ranks.....are very important if rewarded by your Sensi,Instructor, or Professor in your system. Has meaning among your fellow Martial artist.

"Yes" some people use it to make there points! or show-off or just want others to recongized what they earn. (NO different than a college Degree or High school degree)...doesn't make you more SMART or SMARTER?

BUT where it counts is your own knowledge and strenghts on the streets..NO one around to help you? Being a possible victim....Certificates,titles,ranks...Does not matter here!

Let those who want to post there Certificates,Titles, Ranks....there is NO evil in this. Just be careful of those who are NOT-honest!

Now days anyone can apply for any College Degree online for a fee! Same for the Martial art world.

Yours truly...99th degree in ? (Run-a-tay)-Awarded by Professor Chick-KEN).........Aloha

PS: would you like to see the Certificate? .....gotta catch me first!

 

[tshadowchaser]

I have seen false certificates in a school less than three miles from me. How do I know they are false, well the person claiming them is my cousin and I know his true and false background in the arts. His false ones are up there on the wall right next to the only ligitiment one he ever earned. funny thing is the false ones all give him much higher rank.
I will never post my certs. on the internet, hell I do not even have them in my school but in a safe place. At my school I have photocopied certs and yes you can tell they are photo copies. I had all my certs burn up one time in a fire and was able to get some of them reissued but not all so i do not put up the originals any more.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Truthfully to me certificates are more of a private thing between you and your instructor or instructor's. I do not think that they should be posted on the internet or even hung in a Training Hall for that matter. However, if someone wants to see them then by all means invite them over to your house and they can take a look.

To have them on the internet creates a situation where
anyone without the skill can take them, change them and
use them for nefrarious reasons. (forgery, fake, lie, etc.)

 

[Grenadier]

I cheerish my certificates. While it is certainly true that they are pieces of paper that could be replaced, the ones I have right now from our dojo have been hand stamped with the wax seal by the chief instructor, and sent to Hawaii, and signed by the founder of the system, along with the second in command of the whole system.

Very difficult to duplicate, unless you somehow managed to steal the only stamp we have, and the unique formulation of wax that is kept by the chief instructor.

If someone wants to see my certificates, they're welcome to pay a visit, and they can see for themselves. While they're here, I'd be happy to take them out for beer, barbecue, and a slice of coconut cream pie over at Jim 'n Nick's Barbecue, if they're polite.

However, I will not post my certificates for all to see on the internet.

 

[DArnold]

Hello, Certificates, Titles, Ranks.....are very important if rewarded by your Sensi,Instructor, or Professor in your system. Has meaning among your fellow Martial artist.

Nope, not to me, the only thing that matters is if I am still learning and my relationship with my instructor. What others (MA's) think is worthless, and the rest is superficial crap (what you use to keep juniors motivated)

While they're here, I'd be happy to take them out for beer, barbecue, and a slice of coconut cream pie over at Jim 'n Nick's Barbecue,
These are the important things.

The important concepts: moral code, honor, respect, loyalty, ability...
None of these are measured by any of the superficial items mentioned above.

So then how do you measure these?

 

[Drac]

Truthfully to me certificates are more of a private thing between you and your instructor or instructor's. I do not think that they should be posted on the internet or even hung in a Training Hall for that matter.

I agree 100% about posting on the internet..I personally have to problem with a MA school owner hanging them in his school..My 2 cents...

 

[ArmorOfGod]

Truthfully to me certificates are more of a private thing between you and your instructor or instructor's. I do not think that they should be posted on the internet or even hung in a Training Hall for that matter. However, if someone wants to see them then by all means invite them over to your house and they can take a look.

I agree with that. I will add though that if someone really wanted to see them, which I have no problem with, I would gladly bring them to class for inspection, but overall would leave them at my house.

AoG