Best way to avoid joint pain

[Xue Sheng]

Makes no difference as to the approach a chiropractor will take, it's all connected, he/she will make an assessment based on x-rays , symptoms etc.. My hips are adjusted once a week as well as legs, ankles, neck area spine etc. I use to go 3 times a week for many months an now I go once a week sometimes every other week. If your hip is out of alignment it affects your knee. If your elbow is bothering you it can be a variety of reasons such shoulder blade needs an alignment which connects to the spine/neck region. Or it can be as simple as cartilage damage in the elbow region that needs deep tissue massage to break up the scaring which increases blood flow to the region to begin the healing process.

I think we're getting off track here and getting more into who is right.

This is not what I am going for, my apologies if I gave that impression. But you have in your response the point I am trying to make about going to a doctor. Make sure you know what the injury actually is before you get it treated. You mentioned x-rays, that is more to my point. You need the professional opinion of a medical professional, Which is why in a previous response I was not at all for going to a massage therapist, they have no idea what your injury is, unless you have had it evaluated, previously by a medical professional, who then recommended a massage therapist. Speaking as one who has has also dealt with a multitude of injuries over the years, both with and without medical advice and sometimes against medical advice, you need a professional medical person evaluation of your injuries and they also need to be honest enough to tell you exactly what they can and cannot do. And an orthopedic doc who jumps directly to a surgical solution may or may not be acting in the patients best interest, which is why you may also need a second opinion. Same goes for a Chiropractor too.

I have been to chiropractors that help me immensely and I was at the same chiropractor again when the same injury occurred later, who did more damage than good. But then I have also been to orthopedic docs who were way off the mark too in something that was bloody obvious to every other medical person I knew (I worked in a hospital at that time)

Today I have a great Orthopedic doc I go to if necessary and I am married to a Traditional Chinese Medical Doctor as well, so I have some advantages that others do not, I get free TCM.

Bottomline and the only point I am trying to make to the OP is, don't ask a bunch of nameless faceless martial artists, who are for the most part not trained in medicine, for medical advice about an injury. When injured, go to a medical professional for an evaluation and let the Pro tell you what to do. And then, if you don't like it, go to another medical professional and see what they have to say. And if they agree, or if you got a good eval in the first place, here is the big thing that I was guilty of not doing in my youth, listen to the medical advice they give you and follow what they tell you, you might just get better and not have to deal with the pain of the injury again. Don't listen (and this is the voice of experience) expect to get hurt again, likely worse than the first time.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Makes no difference as to the approach a chiropractor will take, it's all connected, he/she will make an assessment based on x-rays , symptoms etc.. My hips are adjusted once a week as well as legs, ankles, neck area spine etc. I use to go 3 times a week for many months an now I go once a week sometimes every other week. If your hip is out of alignment it affects your knee. If your elbow is bothering you it can be a variety of reasons such shoulder blade needs an alignment which connects to the spine/neck region. Or it can be as simple as cartilage damage in the elbow region that needs deep tissue massage to break up the scaring which increases blood flow to the region to begin the healing process.

My experience is that some (many? not sure) chiropractors are over-enthusiastic. Especially with neck/back joints, repeated adjustments can create slack that is not good in the long run. My current chiropractor has done post-grad work in orthopedics, and is much more conservative in his approach than those I've used in the past. If there are no nagging issues, he reduces to every 6 weeks, or even to "will call" status (meaning the patient will call to schedule when there's an issue).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not disputing some people get benifit from chiropractioners, but if your going 50 times a year, every year, you are either a Hyprocondriac that being fleesed by a conman or you have really serious issues and you need a real doctor.

That's a lot of hyperbole in one sentence. Some folks have more joint issues, and actually get relief from a chiropractor. If it works, it's useful. I do think weekly treatment is excessive beyond initial remediation of some issues (it took many weeks to get my pelvis to stop rotating off plane, limiting ROM on my right leg).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

are you saying a doctor prescribed a chiropodist, or are you claiming chiropractors are REAL doctors above you said a doctor wanted to operate and you decided to go to a adjuster instead.

fine if that works for you, but your recommending it to others

A doctor of chiropractic medicine is a title used in the US for chiropractors.

 

[jobo]

A doctor of chiropractic medicine is a title used in the US for chiropractors.

oh, doctor is titled used by people with a phd as well. but I wouldn't be recommending you consult as philosophy of law doctor on your bad back. that's why I said real doctor, a short hand term in this context for a doctor of medicine.

I'm big on self help for injuries and have expressed my view that you can get along just fine with most injuries with out their help, but if your needing three times a week treatment for years at a time,from not a real doctor , I'm sceptical that that treatment is working as efficiency as it could if you retook the treatment recommended by a real doctor. or if it is having a slow benifit, that you couldn't do much the same yourself with body alignment exercises.

 

[jobo]

That's a lot of hyperbole in one sentence. Some folks have more joint issues, and actually get relief from a chiropractor. If it works, it's useful. I do think weekly treatment is excessive beyond initial remediation of some issues (it took many weeks to get my pelvis to stop rotating off plane, limiting ROM on my right leg).

I'm not sure what your disagreeing with, I've said some people get benefit, and you agree, it seems that one or more a week for a period of years is excessive. I supose it depends on how much benifit it gives in real terms, beyond the placebo effect. if those benifits are manifestly greater than you could get by being treated by a doctor of medicinit or self help and if your insurance company are paying for it

my limited experience of them has been all bad, varying between a substantial existence for no benifit, to being hospitalised by a spinal adjustment that went wrong and a substantial exSpence, which is why the experience is limited, il never trust some muffin to click my vertebrae again

the problem is you dont know if their uselese / dangerous until you've been hospitalised. and or no way of measuring its efficiency for treating your problem with out a comparator.

I can say from a sample of one, me, which is all any of us can say with anecdotes, that reiki, is a more effective treatment for bad backs and that's quack new age hoodoo nonsense, but it worked for me, undoubtedly through placebo of being finger flicked by an attractive girl,

nb, I got it for free as she was the only girl friend I've staid on friendly terms with, though having me lay naked in his front room used to make her boy friend very upset

 

[Gerry Seymour]

oh, doctor is titled used by people with a phd as well. but I wouldn't be recommending you consult as philosophy of law doctor on your bad back. that's why I said real doctor, a short hand term in this context for a doctor of medicine.

I'm big on self help for injuries and have expressed my view that you can get along just fine with most injuries with out their help, but if your needing three times a week treatment for years at a time,from not a real doctor , I'm sceptical that that treatment is working as efficiency as it could if you retook the treatment recommended by a real doctor. or if it is having a slow benifit, that you couldn't do much the same yourself with body alignment exercises.

Yeah, except a PhD isn't trained in joints. A DC is. If you don't like chiropractic, that's fine, but consulting a DC isn't nearly the same as consulting someone with a PhD in Fine Arts.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think the elbow pain is from repeated back and side falls.

If the elbow pain is from breakfalls, then you are probably doing something incorrectly. Proper breakfalls should not be putting strain on your joints.

 

[jobo]

Yeah, except a PhD isn't trained in joints. A DC is. If you don't like chiropractic, that's fine, but consulting a DC isn't nearly the same as consulting someone with a PhD in Fine Arts.

they have an ordinary degree in joints, that doesn't by any means make them an expert, at best vaguely aware of the theory, you can get a degree with a 40% score, that means you were 60% wrong in your exam, that's not confidence inspiring, is it

 

[Gerry Seymour]

they have an ordinary degree in joints, that doesn't by any means make them an expert, at best vaguely aware of the theory, you can get a degree with a 40% score, that means you were 60% wrong in your exam, that's not confidence inspiring, is it

What is your source for that?

 

[jobo]

What is your source for that?

whats the % pass rate for degrees - Google Search

 

[Gerry Seymour]

whats the % pass rate for degrees - Google Search

I didn't see anything in a scan of those search results that suggests a 40% would pass. In most US grading systems, somewhere around 70% is a passing score. In some structures, that shifts to 60%, but I never personally experienced any of those, so I'm not sure how prevalent that is.

As I understand it, the DC degree is essentially a graduate degree (technically, a bachelor's degree isn't required to start, but at least 90 hours of undergrad coursework is). So, they have 4 years of specialized training, on top of their undergrad work.

 

[jobo]

I didn't see anything in a scan of those search results that suggests a 40% would pass. In most US grading systems, somewhere around 70% is a passing score. In some structures, that shifts to 60%, but I never personally experienced any of those, so I'm not sure how prevalent that is.

As I understand it, the DC degree is essentially a graduate degree (technically, a bachelor's degree isn't required to start, but at least 90 hours of undergrad coursework is). So, they have 4 years of specialized training, on top of their undergrad work.

did you open it. they all say that, the very first one spells it out

but here, so you dont have to bother reading it
Assessment and grades at university : Skills Hub: University of Sussex

 

[Gerry Seymour]

did you open it. they all say that, the very first one spells it out

but here, so you dont have to bother reading it
Assessment and grades at university : Skills Hub: University of Sussex

All??? That's laughable, since most of the first results in that search don't even speak to what it take to pass (they speak of how many people pass).

So, you found one school that seems to show 40% as a passing grade, and assumed that's the pass rate everywhere. You're wrong. Very wrong. Here's a search with more applicable results: what is a passing score in us college - Google Search. As you'll see there, most of the references start from the letter grades, and reference either the GPA number (0-4) or percentages (0-100) usually assigned to them.

Going back to the University of Sussex, that page is confusing, but doesn't seem to be saying you can score a 40% overall and still graduate - it includes some weighting factors, but no actual information I can find on how to apply them, nor what the phrase "the undergraduate pass mark is 40%" really means, in relation to those weightings.

 

[jobo]

All??? That's laughable, since most of the first results in that search don't even speak to what it take to pass (they speak of how many people pass).

So, you found one school that seems to show 40% as a passing grade, and assumed that's the pass rate everywhere. You're wrong. Very wrong. Here's a search with more applicable results: what is a passing score in us college - Google Search. As you'll see there, most of the references start from the letter grades, and reference either the GPA number (0-4) or percentages (0-100) usually assigned to them.

Going back to the University of Sussex, that page is confusing, but doesn't seem to be saying you can score a 40% overall and still graduate - it includes some weighting factors, but no actual information I can find on how to apply them, nor what the phrase "the undergraduate pass mark is 40%" really means, in relation to those weightings.

they cant set there own pass mark for a national, infact international , considering the number of foreign students ( including an awful lot of anericans) , qualification, so no it's not just one school, that the whole country,s 40 % is what you need to achieve across the various eliments, in order to pass, to pass means you walk out with a qualification, in this case a degree. it's the same pass mark give or take 5 % for all higher levelee, /professional qualifications with the exception of a phd

I didn't say it was the pass mark every where, , America is not the whole world you know,
I simply said you can get a degree with a 40% pass mark, which is true,, but these degrees are accepted across the word, ( including America) so there must be a degree of parity, perhaps the Americans just make the exam easier, to make themselves look smarter, a reasonable assumption based on the culture

 

[Gerry Seymour]

they cant set there own pass mark for a national, infact international , considering the number of foreign students ( including an awful lot of anericans) , qualification, so no it's not just one school, that the whole country,s 40 % is what you need to achieve across the various eliments, in order to pass, to pass means you walk out with a qualification, in this case a degree. it's the same pass mark give or take 5 % for all higher levelee, /professional qualifications with the exception of a phd

I didn't say it was the pass mark every where, , America is not the whole world you know,
I simply said you can get a degree with a 40% pass mark, which is true,, but these degrees are accepted across the word, ( including America) so there must be a degree of parity, perhaps the Americans just make the exam easier, to make themselves look smarter, a reasonable assumption based on the culture

You have no idea what you're talking about. Seriously.

 

[JR 137]

they cant set there own pass mark for a national, infact international , considering the number of foreign students ( including an awful lot of anericans) , qualification, so no it's not just one school, that the whole country,s 40 % is what you need to achieve across the various eliments, in order to pass, to pass means you walk out with a qualification, in this case a degree. it's the same pass mark give or take 5 % for all higher levelee, /professional qualifications with the exception of a phd

I didn't say it was the pass mark every where, , America is not the whole world you know,
I simply said you can get a degree with a 40% pass mark, which is true,, but these degrees are accepted across the word, ( including America) so there must be a degree of parity, perhaps the Americans just make the exam easier, to make themselves look smarter, a reasonable assumption based on the culture

Let’s just say the passing mark in college/university is 40%. So now you have your degree knowing 40% of the coursework.

What’s the passing score for licensure? Physicians, chiropractors, therapists, et al all have to pass a board exam as well to be able to legally practice. Graduating from medical school doesn’t automatically make you a physician. You can have a doctorate degree in medicine, but that doesn’t automatically give you the right to practice. Same for any other medical field.

 

[jobo]

Let’s just say the passing mark in college/university is 40%. So now you have your degree knowing 40% of the coursework.

What’s the passing score for licensure? Physicians, chiropractors, therapists, et al all have to pass a board exam as well to be able to legally practice. Graduating from medical school doesn’t automatically make you a physician. You can have a doctorate degree in medicine, but that doesn’t automatically give you the right to practice. Same for any other medical field.

nether chiropractic or physical therapy is a field of medicine,

 

[dvcochran]

I think we're getting off track here and getting more into who is right.

This is not what I am going for, my apologies if I gave that impression. But you have in your response the point I am trying to make about going to a doctor. Make sure you know what the injury actually is before you get it treated. You mentioned x-rays, that is more to my point. You need the professional opinion of a medical professional, Which is why in a previous response I was not at all for going to a massage therapist, they have no idea what your injury is, unless you have had it evaluated, previously by a medical professional, who then recommended a massage therapist. Speaking as one who has has also dealt with a multitude of injuries over the years, both with and without medical advice and sometimes against medical advice, you need a professional medical person evaluation of your injuries and they also need to be honest enough to tell you exactly what they can and cannot do. And an orthopedic doc who jumps directly to a surgical solution may or may not be acting in the patients best interest, which is why you may also need a second opinion. Same goes for a Chiropractor too.

I have been to chiropractors that help me immensely and I was at the same chiropractor again when the same injury occurred later, who did more damage than good. But then I have also been to orthopedic docs who were way off the mark too in something that was bloody obvious to every other medical person I knew (I worked in a hospital at that time)

Today I have a great Orthopedic doc I go to if necessary and I am married to a Traditional Chinese Medical Doctor as well, so I have some advantages that others do not, I get free TCM.

Bottomline and the only point I am trying to make to the OP is, don't ask a bunch of nameless faceless martial artists, who are for the most part not trained in medicine, for medical advice about an injury. When injured, go to a medical professional for an evaluation and let the Pro tell you what to do. And then, if you don't like it, go to another medical professional and see what they have to say. And if they agree, or if you got a good eval in the first place, here is the big thing that I was guilty of not doing in my youth, listen to the medical advice they give you and follow what they tell you, you might just get better and not have to deal with the pain of the injury again. Don't listen (and this is the voice of experience) expect to get hurt again, likely worse than the first time.

I agree with your post. The big qualifier is the part about the healthcare provider being honest enough to tell you their limits and when alternatives are best practice. I would tend to say most Ortho's don't care to know that there are alternatives so I have learned to tread lightly around mine. I think it is the best advise to get multiple opinions, preferably from different fields, especially if a surgical decision has to be made. FWIW, I have learned Not to go to another doctor and say something like "Dr. Xxx says I should have knee surgery. There is too much camaraderie among doctors to disagree too often. I do very much hate the hassle and expense of having to jump through so many hoops however.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree with your post. The big qualifier is the part about the healthcare provider being honest enough to tell you their limits and when alternatives are best practice. I would tend to say most Ortho's don't care to know that there are alternatives so I have learned to tread lightly around mine. I think it is the best advise to get multiple opinions, preferably from different fields, especially if a surgical decision has to be made. FWIW, I have learned Not to go to another doctor and say something like "Dr. Xxx says I should have knee surgery. There is too much camaraderie among doctors to disagree too often. I do very much hate the hassle and expense of having to jump through so many hoops however.

When we moved, I found (by chance) a primary care physician who is a sports medicine doctor. I now recommend trying to find one of these critters for anyone who is in MA. He has a better understanding of joint and muscle issues - and how they affect my activities - than most GP's. Because he works with athletes, he stays up on what the orthopeds are working with (newer treatments, etc.). He's more likely to go for therapy than surgery (in fact, he had me set with a referral for surgery on a badly torn muscle, then changed his mind and went for PT instead, and the surgery was never needed). And one more point - and I'm not sure if this is because he's a sports doc or just because he's a good doc - he listens a LOT to what I know/feel about my body...he expects me to have that awareness, because of my activities.