Beginner Chi Sau Questions

[Zook104]

Hi I am fairly new to Wing Chun as I started only a few months ago and due to my busy schedule I have only been able to go nearly once a week.

I have been doing chi sau with people in my club and found that I am very easy to push around. By this I mean my arms are easily overpowered by my opponents when it comes to strength against strength.

Though I certainly wouldn't class myself as a body builder I am fit and health and do regular training on weights.

Does anyone have any advice for me as a beginner? Is it because I am not committed enough to the attacks? Or maybe because I tense up? Because I have been told over and over again to relax while practicing. Does anyone have any advice about relaxing during chi sau and drills as well?

Thanks for reading my first post

 

[Marnetmar]

Hey welcome to the club! We don't bite...hard

The first thing I'd have to say is that you shouldn't be using strength against strength at all, rather a very small amount of forward pressure.

If someone pushes you one way, let them do it and go into a tool that makes use of your bone structure (fooksao, tansao, bongsao, etc.). Or, find a way to trap both of their arms (there are hundreds of ways to do this, ask your instructor about it) and follow through with an attack.

And wing chun's techniques are uncommitted, meaning that if one attack is interrupted, you can allow it to be and then switch to another technique without effort.

The best way I can describe relaxation during chi sao drills would be to essentially pretend that your arms have gone limp, and only move according to the way you're being moved rather than against it. I'm not exactly an expert either though, so I'll probably get chewed out by someone here sooner or later. I hope I was able to help! :asian:

 

[Zook104]

Okay cool I will try that tomorrow thanks

 

[geezer]

Don't sweat it. Skill in chi sau takes time. Marnetmar was right in stressing relaxation. If you try to force your attacks, you will be tense and over-committed, and your attack will easily be manipulated by your opponent. By softening up, you 1. give them less to work with, 2. are more easily able to absorb and dissolve their attacks, 3. will be more able to sense their energy when they over-commit or deviate from centerline, and 4. be better able to change your own energy to capitalize on these errors, flowing around their arms like water.

The only thing I'd question is Marnetmar's use of the word limp. To me that implies weak and useless. I'd prefer to say strive to make your arms soft, yielding, but most of all "springy". They should always be gently springing forward, seeking your opponent's center. Remember the goal of chi sau is not "to stick" --that's what we call "chasing hands". The goal is to slip through and hit!!!

BTW Keep in mind that I just make this stuff up as I go. Try not to "absorb what is useless!" LOL

 

[Marnetmar]

I suppose I should have chosen better wording, as literally going limp is of course a bad idea. Soft and springy is a much better term. A slight bit of forward pressure so that when your hand is free, you can follow through with an attack.

 

[mook jong man]

Hi I am fairly new to Wing Chun as I started only a few months ago and due to my busy schedule I have only been able to go nearly once a week.

I have been doing chi sau with people in my club and found that I am very easy to push around. By this I mean my arms are easily overpowered by my opponents when it comes to strength against strength.

Though I certainly wouldn't class myself as a body builder I am fit and health and do regular training on weights.

Does anyone have any advice for me as a beginner? Is it because I am not committed enough to the attacks? Or maybe because I tense up? Because I have been told over and over again to relax while practicing. Does anyone have any advice about relaxing during chi sau and drills as well?

Thanks for reading my first post

This is your problem right there.
If you were my student , you'd probably still be doing single sticking hands.
But you aren't my student are you.

Let's use the microsoft trouble shooting method .
As I have been trying to fix my damn computer for the last 4 hours.

Are your arms collapsing under pressure from the opponent ? If yes

Your elbows maybe too close too your body , open up the angles a little bit more.
Was this helpful?

Is it maybe too early for you to be doing double sticking hands and moving around , when you can't maintain your angles and still coming to grips with the stance.
If yes.

You need to practice SLT regularly and go back to single sticking hands for awhile.
Was this helpful?

You are too tense and need to relax , does this describe your problem?
If yes.

You need to practice SLT regularly and go back to single sticking hands for awhile.
Was this helpful

People don't like to hear this stuff , but there is no magic microsoft fix to download for your Wing Chun
You have to go back to the basics and practice your form more , and go back to just standing there and doing single sticking hands , and when you think you've done enough , go back and do some more.

After a few months of this , go back to double sticking hands , and it will be you who will be throwing people around .

 

[yak sao]

The above answers are dead on.

WC training is a process that takes time. The only real secret is putting the time in.
I agree with mook, it sounds like you are doing chi sau very soon in your training.

The system was designed to be very streamlined...there is nothing there that is unnecessary. And the most necessary component for good WC is placed right at the beginning...the Siu Nim Tao form. You should train this form religiously every day along with whatever footwork you've been shown.... and punches...lots of punches.

 

[wingchun100]

This isn't really related to the topic...just an observation. I find single hand chi sao more difficult than double hand because you don't have that extra appendage to pick up any slack!

 

[geezer]

I find single hand chi sao more difficult than double hand because you don't have that extra appendage to pick up any slack!

Speak for yourself!

http://media1.santabanta.com/full1/Hinduism/Lord Shiva/lord-shiva-40a.jpg



Ok, that was a pretty random response. Actually I don't find Dan Chi as difficult because you don't have to be so careful to keep both arms independently springing forward. But then im my lineage Dan Chi especially is a not competitive training exercise.

Now if you are using one arm against two, that's a different matter. Check out this old video of Augustine Fong doing just that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2UrDGNOBk0&list=PL32AF56B4B851B600

 

[mook jong man]

This isn't really related to the topic...just an observation. I find single hand chi sao more difficult than double hand because you don't have that extra appendage to pick up any slack!

It maybe because the Fook Sau ends up in a low position after the opponents palm strike , some people find it difficult to maintain forward force and wrist contact from that low point.
Mainly because they try to keep the angle of the Fook Sau arm the same as it travels down , let the angle expand a little and you will keep wrist contact and forward force.

Single sticking hands is mainly to hone your focus and wrist positioning on the centerline , the reasoning being that you only have one arm that you have to think about.