Basic Manners

[teekin]

[

My old Boy Scout Leader was great in so many ways, but the one thing he always said that I disagreed with was, “Sorry is a sign of weakness”. I thought about this for a long time and came to the conclusion that an apology for your mis-actions is just good manners.

Small inconsequential acts of kindness are done not for any type of recognition, it’s done purely out of a desire to look out for others. [/quote]

This has to be one of the most Ignorant Asinine Harmful statements I've ever heard. :whip:
lori

 

[Ken Morgan]

[

My old Boy Scout Leader was great in so many ways, but the one thing he always said that I disagreed with was, “Sorry is a sign of weakness”. I thought about this for a long time and came to the conclusion that an apology for your mis-actions is just good manners.

Small inconsequential acts of kindness are done not for any type of recognition, it’s done purely out of a desire to look out for others.

This has to be one of the most Ignorant Asinine Harmful statements I've ever heard. :whip:
lori[/quote]

Yep, even to this day when i see him I remind him of him saying that 30 years ago. I don't know if he ever really believed it, but it certainly made me think. It was the only thing he did/said that I disagreed with.

 

[Ken Morgan]

LOL. So, consider this my attempt to draw attention to your, not anti-social, but rude behavior.

Edit: Just want to add, lest this appear to be ganging up on the OP, I do agree with you that we should all be polite. It's just the nice thing to do. I make a point to be polite to anyone who rings the doorbell, be they a travelling salesperson, a Mormon/Jehovah's Witness or whomever. I enjoy it when people are polite to me.

Me too.

The old saying it takes a village to raise a child, we all need to be pro active in.. "helping" others be polite. When my kids were small I would point out when they were being rude, others never had that done. It's a remedial lesson!! Why is it that we will stop people from other socially unacceptable acts but not lack of manners? Why is it "rude" to challange people for their socially unacceptable behaviour?

Me seeking attention???? LOL. I'm actually the other way round. I try to do everything to avoid attention. Not showing manners back is a serious sign of disrespect, (to me it's akin to giving someone the finger), and should be socially unacceptable.

Not even close, believe me I don't say "you're welcome" to everyone who is rude, Hell I'd be doing it all day. Somedays though....

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Well as far as the sorry is a sign of weakness quote.... in many ways it can be.

Too many people apologize for things that there simply should not be an apology for.

Too many people use sorry as an excuse to make poor behavior tolerable...but are too weak to actually fix the problem rather then just say sorry everytime they do it.

It is one thing to actually make a mistake one time nad be honestly sorry that the mistake created an issue for someone else, or even yourself. It is quite another to always be sorry for doin gthe same thing.

Here is an example, that constantly irritates me.
Employee is late to work...and apologizes for it... the next day same thing... after a while the apology is used simply to offset the poor behavior, as if it makes it ok... this is when Sorry is a sign of weakness.
Its a character flaw, and an untrue apology.

I think the vast majority of time people say Sorry it is used incorrectly, and to cover up weakness, laziness, or something similar.
People need to grow a spine, and hold themselves accoountable for their actions and stop trying to offset the responsiblity with a SORRY

 

[K-man]

This is also topical in Australia with one major chain refusing to serve anyone talking on a mobile phone. They even advertised this policy on TV. Then, just this week another food store was featured for refusing to serve people who didn't say 'please'.
BTW, I was recently in the US and I thought most people there were very polite and thoughtful, especially in the MA venues I visited. Of course there are exceptions everywhere.
There are some cultures, such as the Japanese, who are extremely polite. Others don't seem to have the niceties in their culture at all and as those people migrate to countries like the US, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ etc we notice the omission.

 

[7starmarc]

Well as far as the sorry is a sign of weakness quote.... in many ways it can be.

Too many people apologize for things that there simply should not be an apology for.

Too many people use sorry as an excuse to make poor behavior tolerable...but are too weak to actually fix the problem rather then just say sorry everytime they do it.

It is one thing to actually make a mistake one time nad be honestly sorry that the mistake created an issue for someone else, or even yourself. It is quite another to always be sorry for doin gthe same thing.

Here is an example, that constantly irritates me.
Employee is late to work...and apologizes for it... the next day same thing... after a while the apology is used simply to offset the poor behavior, as if it makes it ok... this is when Sorry is a sign of weakness.
Its a character flaw, and an untrue apology.

I think the vast majority of time people say Sorry it is used incorrectly, and to cover up weakness, laziness, or something similar.
People need to grow a spine, and hold themselves accoountable for their actions and stop trying to offset the responsiblity with a SORRY

Agreed.

"Sorry" has different uses in our language.

One "sorry" is the admission of feeling guilty - guilt is a self-indulgent practice which allows a person to beat themself up over something, but not necessarily do anything about it.

Another "sorry" is the expression of regret or remorse - that understanding that it was a bad thing to do, and that something needs to be done to prevent it in the future.

A great illustration of guilt/regret is the image of drinking a liquid, and finding out 5 minutes later that it was poison. You wouldn't feel guilty, but you'd definitely feel regret.

 

[jarrod]

fwiw, i have ran into a few US customs agents who were very, very rude. almost mean. it hasn't been the majority, but enough to be noticed.

i'll let things like a forgotten 'thank you' slide, since at the end of the day it really doesn't effect me if someone verbally acknowledges that i did something polite. now if someone's lack of consideration directly effects me, they will find out. for instance, people double parking, blocking the aisle at the grocery store, or just generally being an *** will be informed that their poor conduct isn't appreciated.

jf

 

[Live True]

Ken,
I wouldn't say that manners are no longer being taught, I would simply say that...at least here in America...so many people are so self absorbed that manners don't even come into the equation. I find that sadder, actually. If they weren't being taught, folks would have a slim excuse for thier behaviour. Having been taught and simply being oblivious, somehow makes it worse.

We all have our pet peeves of other people's rudeness. Two of my peeves are talking at length on a cell phone while walking/visiting with somone and changing lanes without looking/signalling. One is insensitive and thoughtless, the other is thoughtless and dangerous. Both are rude.

Manners are a way to keep society working smoothly, help provide guidelines for those that are shy and/or untrained in a culture, and also provide a basic framework for safe function in a urban culture where there are lots of folks in a small space. Manners may vary from culture to culture, but they do require an awareness of your surroundings and others. So, I think it is a lack of awareness, not a lack of manners, that currently abounds.

As for the "sorry is a sign of weakness". I hate statements that are pithy to the point of absurdity. If he'd been clear instead of making a memorable slogan, he wouldn't appear so assinine and arrogantly ignorant in retrospect. I'm curious, Ken, when you bring it up to him now, does he express any regret, embarrassment, or try to clarify his point?

Sincere apologies are never a sign of weakness and often are a sign of courage. It's VERY hard to admit you've made a mistake, especially when the person you are apologizing to you is important to you Or your apology will lose something valuable to you.. If, as LKB & 7sm have stated so well, it's a quick cover up or used to excuse non-repentant behaviour....THEN it is weakness.

IMHO, a good test:
If you can't immediately answer WHY you are sorry, then you really aren't sorry. You're being reactive.

If you can't answer within a few minutes what you would/will do differently, then you aren't sincere.

In both cases, you should rethink your response.

 

[blindsage]

I'm pretty polite the vast majority of the time. I go out of my way to say 'please' and 'thank you' because I feel it's important for me to act this way. I would like other people to do so, but I don't require others in public settings to conform to my standards of etiquette. If I open the door for somebody else and they don't say 'thank you' I'm not particularly concerned (especially if they acknowledge it some other way, like body language), because I didn't do it for a thank you, I did it because I believe it's how I should act. Being concerned with others behavior is a waste of time, I can't control what they do or think, I can only control what I do and think. Trying to reprimand and adult as you would a child is inherently self-defeating and fairly arrogant. If someone says 'your welcome' to me in a context where they thought I should have said 'thank you' (maybe I just didn't think of it, or was distracted), I don't think 'oh, gosh they're right, how rude of me', I think 'what an ***'. If you're only polite as long as others are, I think you've missed the point of being polite.

 

[Sukerkin]

I disagree. A man once opened a door for a woman and the woman snapped "I don't need to have a man open a door for me. You don't have to do that just because I am a lady."

I once earned myself a very public and very embarassing haranguing from a triptych of young ladies for doing just that - they were newly minted members of the Feminist Society at university and relished testing their teeth on a helpless young man brought up with manners from a prior century .

 

[Sukerkin]

I can't add an awful lot to what some posters have already stated - that'll teach me to come late to a thread that caught my eye when it was first posted.

As I hope that people here can already tell, I value highly that lubricant of social interaction that is 'good manners'. They grew out of a time when behaving like a churl ended with an axe in the head or a sword through the ribs.

The fact that their roots are in such pragmatic soil does not invalidate the truth that conducting yourself in a polite and civilised fashion simply makes things go more smoothly and also works to make others feel good.

A very simple example. Whilst driving, someone stops behind a parked car on their side of the road to allow me through on my, unobstructed, side of the road without my having to slow down or stop.

Now, legally, it's my 'right of way' and they should stop anyway. However, I raise a hand and smile as I pass to acknowledge what they did.

It cost me absolutely nothing to do that small display of good manners but it makes them feel happier that they did what they 'had' to do, makes them feel that they have displayed good manners and put themselves out for me. They feel less irritated that they had to stop and I feel happy that I have done the 'right thing' by showing them that I appreciate their stopping.

Who loses? Noone. It's one of those rare areas of life where it is Win-Win.

 

[Joab]

The older I get the more I believe that manners and attitude are so important that their importance can not be exaggerated. People will put up with low wages, lousy benefits, dead end jobs, low status, but offend them with your lack of manners and attitude trouble may come quickly, it can be violence against yourself it can even bring about a revolution. I'm serious about this, nothing more important than manners and attitude. I try to be polite and have a good attitude, certainly these are Biblical principles and even specific teachings, and as a Christian engaged in college courses on the Bible with the hopes of gaining a Bachelor's degree in Religion and the hopes of becoming a Christian teacher and missionary and having done my share of teaching, it is also completely consistent with all of my beliefs and aspirations. But I think one should be polite and have a good attitude without expecting much of people. If they do not respond appropriately, turn the other cheek, do not resist evil with evil, but rather win them over with a loving, positive attitude and hope for the best.