Basic Disarm Notes/Observations

[Guro Harold]

The information below merely describes the perceived basic concepts of each disarm.

Disarm #1 (attach is left temple strike)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Push-Pull Chambering
- Transitional Backward lock
- Stick Shear

Disarm #2 (attach is right temple strike)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional Centerlock (S-Lock, chicken-wing lock)

Disarm #3 (attach is to left elbow area)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional Backward Lock.

Disarm #4 (attach is to right elbow area)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Thumb lock
- Transitional Centerlock (S-Lock, chicken-wing lock)

Disarm #5 (attack is a centerline thrust)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Wrist strike (weakest link)
- Push-Pull (close to open position)
- Final disarm movement similar to low open to close movement in flow drill.

Disarm #6 (the attack is a #6 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Same as Disarm #5, just different plane and angle
- Push-Pull (close to open position)
- Final disarm movement similar to high open to close movement in flow drill.

Disarm #7 (the attack is a #7 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional backward lock
- Push-Pull Scissor motion

Disarm #8 (attach is to right knee)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Same as Disarm #5, just different plane and angle

Disarm #9 (attach is to left knee)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional side by side lock
- Push-Pull Scissor motion
- Stick Shear (oppose the thumb, the weakest link)

Disarm #10 (the attack is a #10 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional Centerlock (S-Lock, chicken-wing lock)

Disarm #11 (the attack is a #11 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Attack the thumb with a glide strick counter off of the block
- Thumb break with scissor open to close position.

Disarm #12 (the attack is a centerline cranium strike)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Same as Disarm #5, just different plane and angle

The 12 basic disarms though a integral part of the Modern Arnis curriculum have been taught with much variation in emphasis of techniques and the ordinal positioning of some of the disarms.

This thread merely describes some personal observations of executing the disarms and is not definitive nor exhaustive.

Your valued input and insights in this and any of the other technical discussions can play a valuable role in keeping the Professor's knowledge and desire of speading Modern Arnis stong and alive.

Best regards,

Guro Harold Evans
Modern Arnis Student :asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

When I look at disarms, I look at leverage based "take aways." These are different from any kind of pain induced or breakage induced defangs, so to speak. Those are in a different catagory for me.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Rich Parsons]

The information below merely describes the perceived basic concepts of each disarm.

Good Idea

Disarm #1 (attack is left temple strike)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Push-Pull Chambering
- Transitional Backward lock
- Stick Shear

Could you give a few more details on the first one? Is this the same is number 7?

Disarm #2 (attack is right temple strike)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional Centerlock (S-Lock, chicken-wing lock)

I prefer to think of it as a wrist lock, and not the s-lock or center lock. Reason being, from my perception, is that the opponents arm is elbow up with your knife hand to the inside of their wrist. The Center lock has the opponents elbow facing out and not up with the wrist rotated 90 degrees less than above.

Disarm #3 (attack is to left elbow area)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional Backward Lock.

I like this one. Although, what I teach is slightly different than what most others do, it is basically the same concept.

Disarm #4 (attack is to right elbow area)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Thumb lock
- Transitional Centerlock (S-Lock, chicken-wing lock)

I prefer to think of the center lock, for this allows for the disarm to flow, if the thumb lock is available or found or desired because you are looking to control, you can get this as well. I also like the center lock for control as it is the wrist and not just the thumb.

Disarm #5 (attack is a centerline thrust)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Wrist strike (weakest link)
- Push-Pull (close to open position)
- Final disarm movement similar to low open to close movement in flow drill.

I like to think of this one like Dan Anderson does as a technique of control versus the strike to the wrist, but the wrist strike is a good technique. Just not a disarm but a 'disarm'.

Could you describe the flow disarm?

Disarm #6 (the attack is a #6 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Same as Disarm #5, just different plane and angle
- Push-Pull (close to open position)
- Final disarm movement similar to high open to close movement in flow drill.

I think of this one as insert the butt of the cane under the stick and back into the wrist. Similar to a strip but under the stick versus over as in number 5. Just curious is this is what you were describing.

Once again the flow disarm.

Disarm #7 (the attack is a #7 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional backward lock
- Push-Pull Scissor motion

Transitional backward lock. I think I need more description on this. The push pull works for 7 and 11, yet for this to work on number one, I think I am not 'seeing' the right motion.

Disarm #8 (attach is to right knee)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Same as Disarm #5, just different plane and angle

I also like the number 2, and prefer to think of it as number 6 as it is on
the same plane at the end.

Disarm #9 (attach is to left knee)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional side by side lock
- Push-Pull Scissor motion
- Stick Shear (oppose the thumb, the weakest link)

Could you describe side by side. I know the throw, just curious about the approach to the disarm.

Disarm #10 (the attack is a #10 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Transitional Centerlock (S-Lock, chicken-wing lock)

I think of this like number 2 I described above.

Disarm #11 (the attack is a #11 poke)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Attack the thumb with a glide strick counter off of the block
- Thumb break with scissor open to close position.

I also think of #7 where you parry the stick over and do the push pull peel.

Disarm #12 (the attack is a centerline cranium strike)
Basic Disarm Concepts:
- Same as Disarm #5, just different plane and angle

This one does end up like number 5.

I also like the umbrella into number 3, and slanting or horizontal into number 2.

The 12 basic disarms though a integral part of the Modern Arnis curriculum have been taught with much variation in emphasis of techniques and the ordinal positioning of some of the disarms.

I personally believe that the order is just used as a teaching location or prompt. I think that if you can try them all from different locations, and see how they flow, and what you feel comfortable executing. And they can change over time.

This thread merely describes some personal observations of executing the disarms and is not definitive nor exhaustive.

I agree, and this is in no way an argument with Harold.

Your valued input and insights in this and any of the other technical discussions can play a valuable role in keeping the Professor's knowledge and desire of speading Modern Arnis stong and alive.

Best regards,

Guro Harold Evans
Modern Arnis Student :asian:

Good discussion, and some concepts need to be discussed from time to time.
:asian:

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Rich,

Going along with Dan, the disarms are implemented by "push-pull" and torque leverage. The joint locks are also transitional in nature.

Could you give a few more details on the first one? Is this the same is number 7?

If you think about the #1 disarm, it is ultimately implemented like a chambered counter punch. To me it makes since that that it is the first because it is the most natural motion for someone who has trained in a karate or other art that you had to throw hundreds of alternating chambered counter punches .

I am more familiar with #7 as a scissor motion, think double stick up and down.

I prefer to think of it as a wrist lock, and not the s-lock or center lock. Reason being, from my perception, is that the opponents arm is elbow up with your knife hand to the inside of their wrist. The Center lock has the opponents elbow facing out and not up with the wrist rotated 90 degrees less than above.

Nomenclature:

Maybe I should have stated it as "centerline lock", since most of these locks are applied against the centerline in execution. The "Standing Centerlock" manipulates the wrist, elbow, and shoulder in relation to the centerline.

I prefer to think of the center lock, for this allows for the disarm to flow, if the thumb lock is available or found or desired because you are looking to control, you can get this as well. I also like the center lock for control as it is the wrist and not just the thumb.

The thumb, like anything else we get is gravy!!! This thumb was the focus of this lock in some of the follow-ups in the old tapes and the black belt series. The thumb has been taught as the focus but this disarm can work without it.

I like to think of this one like Dan Anderson does as a technique of control versus the strike to the wrist, but the wrist strike is a good technique. Just not a disarm but a 'disarm'.

Could you describe the flow disarm?

Striking is gravy too! The ending position is like the of the second crossada of flow drill.

Could you describe side by side. I know the throw, just curious about the approach to the disarm.

The "Side by Side" angle (right on right perspective), the opponent's arm is bent at a right angle, elbow past centerline opponent's right hand below belt level. If the defender can execute the throw with an inside left step, clockwise pivot, and right cross behind step.

Hope it helps,

Harold

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

in regards to the disarms, we in Germany have structured them in a way, that more simple learning and memorizing is possile.

We have, what we call disarming-series. All together 11 at the moment.
Each series represents a different principle of disarming and within a series, all angles are disarmed within the same principle.

For example, the second series disarms everything with the free hand, like a snake circle disarming.

There are usually basic disarms and variations in every series, but belive me, it makes it much easer to memorize all the different disarms.

While training in the Philippines, I was asked to show all the disarms I know, before moving to the counters to the disarms. With this concept, I could demonstrate 35 disarms only on attack number 12.
Not that I don't think that this is more than other people have, but the series makes the reproduction easier through structure and concepts.

I will demonstrate and teach the concept of the disarming-series at the Modern Arnis camp in Bredvard, NC in June.


Regards from Germany


Dieter Knüttel
DATU of Modern Arnis

 

[Cebu West]

Dieter's approach to teaching the disarms sounds very close to what we have been presenting in the WMAA. This approach gives the students a better feel for each disarm and allows them to understand that they can be applied to most of the striking angles. Sometimes they are not the preferred method, but it makes you think outside the box and attempt things you wouldn't normally do. When the time comes for you to use them, you won't be locked into a specific disarm for a specific attack.

Sounds good Dieter

Sal Todaro (Cebu West - WMAA)

 

[Rich Parsons]

Hi Rich,

. . .
Nomenclature:
. . .

Hope it helps,

Harold

Harold,

I expected as much.

 

[Dieter]

Dieter's approach to teaching the disarms sounds very close to what we have been presenting in the WMAA. This approach gives the students a better feel for each disarm and allows them to understand that they can be applied to most of the striking angles. Sometimes they are not the preferred method, but it makes you think outside the box and attempt things you wouldn't normally do. When the time comes for you to use them, you won't be locked into a specific disarm for a specific attack.

Sounds good Dieter

Sal Todaro (Cebu West - WMAA)

For I don't know the WMAA approach to the disarms, you are right, there are better and worse disarms. But it makes you understand to think in concepts rather than in techniques.
And, as Sal pointed out, you don't have to do a specific disarm on a certain number of attack. And there are of course variations on each disarm in each series. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but it gives you more opportunities.
We use the same principle, of the series, not only to disarm stick to stick, but are done with sticks, empty hands, dulo (palm stick) and, at least the first two series, with flexible tools. And of course also against left hand attack and with the stick in the left hand (for right handers)


Regards


Dieter

 

[chris...]

thats similar to how we train
every method for every strike