Balintawak Footwork

[Mono]

I did post a lengthy Article or rather opening Post for Discussion on Balintawak Footwork here...

http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=4420

Hoping for a good Discussion with many Insights from different Lineages and Instdurctors as well as Students of Balintawak!

Thanks!

Yours, Philipp "Mono" Wolf

 

[geezer]

I did post a lengthy Article or rather opening Post for Discussion on Balintawak Footwork here...

http://www.fmatalk.com/showthread.php?t=4420

Hoping for a good Discussion with many Insights from different Lineages and Instdurctors as well as Students of Balintawak!

Thanks!

Yours, Philipp "Mono" Wolf

Boy that discussion was pretty technical! Coming from a non-Balintawak perspective, I'm more interested in the interaction of Balintawak with various other approaches. I see from your article that you have studied other systems, so you probably have a lot to say on the subject.

My own experience with balintawak practioners was for them to work in very close... one could say they'd sorta balinta-walk all over you. But their footwork wasn't exactly linear either, as they'd kind of move in and around me... damn near ending up behind me, sometimes. That seemed to entail a bit of very narrow and efficient off-lining. I'm sorry I can't be more specific. It was a while back. But it was very interesting.

 

[pesilat]

My experience with Balintawak has been pretty much completely from GM Bobby Taboada's lineage. We draw from it primarily to teach students good body mechanics and stick control before we move into other areas mostly influenced by Lacoste/Inosanto blend.

I have no formal rank within Balintawak. My instructor trained with GM Bobby in the early 90s (soon after GM Bobby moved to the States). When I first started training in FMA in '95 he required us to learn the Balintawak system to the point that we could have tested for "Completion of Art." I'm a little rusty on some of the higher level material but have seen most if not all of the basic curriculum (up to "CoA" level). As I understand it GM Bobby has modified his curriculum over the years (which, of course, stands to reason) and I don't know about those modifications.

GM Bobby posted later in that discussion Mono originally referenced and, of course, I won't reinvent the wheel by trying to re-explain what he put ... go read it there

A couple of things I would like to point out that I didn't see mentioned in that discussion:

In Cuentada the second method that Mono mentioned (triangulating against the incoming attack) is used.

Shadowboxing is a preset form that GM Bobby taught my instructor (I assume it was a standard part of the curriculum then but I don't know if it still is). Shadowboxing starts with no footwork. Later, though, it becomes mobile and the footwork is not prearranged. This leads the student to explore footwork and find what feels comfortable within the parameters that s/he has learned in the previous training in Cuentada and Grouping Systems.

Mike

 

[Robert Klampfer]

In Cuentada the second method that Mono mentioned (triangulating against the incoming attack) is used.

Just a point of order - cuentada is a concept rather than a specific technique or set of techniques. As such, there's no specific footwork attributed to the art of cuentada. Also, any perception of "triangulating" (I'm assuming this is meant as triangular/v-pattern footwork...?) is purely coincidental - we don't teach or train triangular or v-pattern footwork.

Shadowboxing is a preset form that GM Bobby taught my instructor (I assume it was a standard part of the curriculum then but I don't know if it still is). Shadowboxing starts with no footwork. Later, though, it becomes mobile and the footwork is not prearranged. This leads the student to explore footwork and find what feels comfortable within the parameters that s/he has learned in the previous training in Cuentada and Grouping Systems.

Shadow fighting is still very much a part of the program. It has many uses and is a very good exercise. Where the footwork comes in with shadow fighting is when training to deal with multiple attackers.


Robert

 

[pesilat]

Just a point of order - cuentada is a concept rather than a specific technique or set of techniques. As such, there's no specific footwork attributed to the art of cuentada. Also, any perception of "triangulating" (I'm assuming this is meant as triangular/v-pattern footwork...?) is purely coincidental - we don't teach or train triangular or v-pattern footwork.

I think there's a difference in our definitions of the term "triangulating."

What I mean is that, for instance, as Angle 1 comes in I "triangulate" to the attack by squaring my shoulders to the line of attack and blocking with a vertical stick, middle to middle then countering. Generally (though not always) that triangulation will also mean I have a right lead (against an Angle 1) because it provides a good stable base for that block.

So when I say "triangulating" I'm not specifically talking about footwork - though the footwork is often part of the overall equation but, as you say, it's somewhat coincidental in cuentada. The triangle I'm referring to isn't related to male/female triangular stepping; it's related to the triangle formed by my shoulders as the base and my stick at the point. If I were to put both of my hands on my stick then my arms/stick/shoulders would form a triangle.

I think that explains it better than I previously did. The footwork we use in cuentada is linear and, usually, matched lead and the "triangulation" (the term my instructor uses - not sure where he got it) happens in the upper body.

I think this puts us more on the same page, right?

Mike

 

[Robert Klampfer]

I think this puts us more on the same page, right?

Yep, I'm tracking with you now.

Robert

 

[Darrin Cook]

When I first met GM Drigo Maranga (whose father was a peer of Anciong), he was able to hit me at will in the leg. I didn't know why at the time, but it was because I kept the right leg forward.

Drigo Maranga's father, the late Timor Maranga, sparred with the legendary "Tatang" Ilustrisimo. One weakness of his system was that he always had his left foot planted, so Timor continually circled to Tatang's left side, which frustrated him.

 

[Mananandata]

When I first met GM Drigo Maranga (whose father was a peer of Anciong), he was able to hit me at will in the leg. I didn't know why at the time, but it was because I kept the right leg forward.

Drigo Maranga's father, the late Timor Maranga, sparred with the legendary "Tatang" Ilustrisimo. One weakness of his system was that he always had his left foot planted, so Timor continually circled to Tatang's left side, which frustrated him.

"he always had his left foot planted"

Is that a fact?

 

[Darrin Cook]

If you watch the video here (

) you can see what I'm talking about.

This is also described in "The Secrets of Kalis Ilustrisimo: The Filipino Fighting Art Explained (Tuttle Martial Arts)" which is called floating footwork. One of the Ilustrisimo clan had a hole in his foot which he could plant in a nail in the floor and execute his techniques.

My account is from Drigo Maranga, His father Timor is mentioned in the book several times. As a young man Timor knew Tatang Ilustrisimo.

 

[Darrin Cook]

Mananandata,

In rereading my post and looking at videos, Tatang Ilustrisimo does not always have his left foot planted. So I shouldn't have talked of his "system," but just of the one method in which the left foot is planted and the right moves back and forth. Maybe that's what GM Ilustrisimo was showing to Timor that day.

The late GM Giron also had a method in which one foot was planted. As I understand it, it was intended for environments where there was little solid footing (like a rock in a stream), so the one foot with a secure position stayed planted. Of course, that wasn't the whole of his system.

 

[Mananandata]

If you watch the video here (

) you can see what I'm talking about.

The left foot wasn't "planted". No such thing happened. What was there was the right foot was always leading but only because there was no reason for the left foot to lead. The principle is, "Move only when needed."

This is also described in "The Secrets of Kalis Ilustrisimo: The Filipino Fighting Art Explained (Tuttle Martial Arts)" which is called floating footwork.

The floating footwork doesn't mandate a planted left foot. If one is in cerca contra footwork meaning right weapon hand and left foot leading, then the left foot will be the one moving and not the right foot. Lutang can also be use in conjunction with Retirada where both feet are moving and trailing upon each other. Again, no planted footwork there.

One of the Ilustrisimo clan had a hole in his foot which he could plant in a nail in the floor and execute his techniques.

This is a different story altogether. This practice is done as a show of mastery and expertise. It also shows applications of walong apak which is basic to Ilustrisimos.

My account is from Drigo Maranga, His father Timor is mentioned in the book several times.

If you simply repeating Drigo Maranga's words in verbatim, then he obviously misunderstood his father's account about Tatang's movements.

As a young man Timor knew Tatang Ilustrisimo.

Me too.

 

[Mananandata]

Mananandata,

In rereading my post and looking at videos, Tatang Ilustrisimo does not always have his left foot planted. So I shouldn't have talked of his "system," but just of the one method in which the left foot is planted and the right moves back and forth. Maybe that's what GM Ilustrisimo was showing to Timor that day.

Yes, just one method of accomplishing a certain purpose e.g. defending without going out of range.

The late GM Giron also had a method in which one foot was planted. As I understand it, it was intended for environments where there was little solid footing (like a rock in a stream), so the one foot with a secure position stayed planted. Of course, that wasn't the whole of his system.

Where one cannot freely move about, we have visagra, elastico and de fondo and of course hardly in anyway representing the whole system but part and parcel of the Ilustrisimo Method.

 

[Robert Klampfer]

I'll offer some friendly advice:

Many people in the Illustrisimo community are our friends, including some of its most senior practitioners. It's not polite to talk about our friends in a way that can be interpreted as negative. Some stories are best kept off the Errornet and to oneself. Many more people read this board than post to it. Please be thoughtful and be careful.

Robert