Baby name needs government approval?...Really?...Your serious?

[billc]

Can anyone explain why the government of any country should have this much power over their subjects...er, citizens...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_ICELAND_GIRL_WITH_NO_NAME?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-03-03-48-24

A 15-year-old is suing the Icelandic state for the right to legally use the name given to her by her mother. The problem? Blaer, which means "light breeze" in Icelandic, is not on a list approved by the government.

Like a handful of other countries, including Germany and Denmark, Iceland has official rules about what a baby can be named. In a country comfortable with a firm state role, most people don't question the Personal Names Register, a list of 1,712 male names and 1,853 female names that fit Icelandic grammar and pronunciation rules and that officials maintain will protect children from embarrassment. Parents can take from the list or apply to a special committee that has the power to say yea or nay.
In Blaer's case, her mother said she learned the name wasn't on the register only after the priest who baptized the child later informed her he had mistakenly allowed it.
"I had no idea that the name wasn't on the list, the famous list of names that you can choose from," said Bjork Eidsdottir, adding she knew a Blaer whose name was accepted in 1973. This time, the panel turned it down on the grounds that the word Blaer takes a masculine article, despite the fact that it was used for a female character in a novel by Iceland's revered Nobel Prize-winning author Halldor Laxness.

This story is a joke...right? Government approved names are the only ones allowed? Really? Thank goodness we have the 1st amendment protected by the second amendment...for now....

 

[Sukerkin]

http://sagas.is/fradi.htm

Iceland is most probably the longest extant democracy in the world, Bill and also amongst the most well balanced and egalitarian. Throwing tomatoes at them for having a legal process in place to deal with silly names hardly becomes you. The story is being a bit misrepresented; as far as I can tell as there is a procedure to have the name you want, you just need to have it's spelling match up with the rules of the language (and there is a linguistic panel which does that).

Even so, this is hardly gang rape and murder is it? Have a go at India and Pakistan for their awful record on the treatment of women if you want to stick pins in other countries ways of doing things.

Just to make you jealous, Iceland is about the only western economy to weather the 'banking crisis' well - they did what everyone else should have done and refused to steal from everyone to pay the bankers gambling debts.

 

[Tez3]

America has a law that says when and where you may cross the road, the rest of us don't. should the world get up in arms about this or shall we, sensibly, consider it to the perogative of the country to make it's own laws and mind our own business? The latter I think.

Btw Well said Sukerkin!!

 

[Makalakumu]

Just to make you jealous, Iceland is about the only western economy to weather the 'banking crisis' well - they did what everyone else should have done and refused to steal from everyone to pay the bankers gambling debts.

This is so important that it bears restating, but alas, it is off topic.

First of all, I agree with BillC. It is ridiculous that a government would have so much power that it would restrict baby names, but lets dig a little deeper.

I'm not sure if there is a cultural reason for them to do so. I suspect that this law traces back to the cultural naming convention in Iceland. For example, my name is John so my son would be named Johnson and my daughter would be named Johnsdottir. Perhaps a law like this is intended to prevent people from passing on UnIcelandic sounding names like Juan...Juanson or Juansdottir. Thus, I think this law probably exists to protect the "cultural purity" of Iceland.

There are plenty of other cultures that do this. It's not too extraordinary when viewed from a broader perspective. Passing laws like this is typically a very conservative and reactionary measure in society. People do this when they feel like their traditions are under attack. In the US I can think of dozens of examples, mostly proposed by right wingnut elements of society, where the general principle of this law is currently being promulgated.

For example, the same people who would ban gay marriage are the same people who would restrict baby names.

 

[billc]

A large encroaching central government isn't an American "right wing," thing, for example, considering the extreme, as they are called is the tea party/libertarians, that wants less power in the central government. Considering the left in the states desires the ability to control your healthcare, retirement (look up gauranteed retirement accounts,) all the way down to how much pop, you can have when you eat out, and now what kind of light bulbs you can use, and wether the tax payers have to pay for free abortions, contraception and sterilization, and the religious views of private businesses...controlling what you can name your baby is just lower on their list of priorities...but be assured, it is on their list...

Even so, this is hardly gang rape and murder is it?

Of course it isn't Sukerkin, it is, however, a silly encroachment on the freedom of their subjects...er, citizens...

 

[Tez3]

This is so important that it bears restating, but alas, it is off topic.

First of all, I agree with BillC. It is ridiculous that a government would have so much power that it would restrict baby names, but lets dig a little deeper.

I'm not sure if there is a cultural reason for them to do so. I suspect that this law traces back to the cultural naming convention in Iceland. For example, my name is John so my son would be named Johnson and my daughter would be named Johnsdottir. Perhaps a law like this is intended to prevent people from passing on UnIcelandic sounding names like Juan...Juanson or Juansdottir. Thus, I think this law probably exists to protect the "cultural purity" of Iceland.

There are plenty of other cultures that do this. It's not too extraordinary when viewed from a broader perspective. Passing laws like this is typically a very conservative and reactionary measure in society. People do this when they feel like their traditions are under attack. In the US I can think of dozens of examples, mostly proposed by right wingnut elements of society, where the general principle of this law is currently being promulgated.

For example, the same people who would ban gay marriage are the same people who would restrict baby names.

You are incorrect, your daughter would take her mother's name not yours. The Icelandic names law only applies to Icelanders not foreigners who live there or even who become Icelandic citizens, the law was approved by the people. It has nothing to do with racial purity nor is it anti gay. I would suggest you know little about the Icelanders. They are liberal ( European sense), quite left wing, open, and so not anti gay, in fact their Premier is a lesbian. They had gay marriage long before many other countries and the LGBT citizens have more rights than in any other country. You couldn't be more wrong about Iceland, It is almost the most perfect place to live, only the weather lets it down a bit.

 

[Tez3]

Iceland is very much a democracy, it's the oldest in the world and is run the same way it has always been. That some don't like that is obvious, and what they don't like has to be 'evil'. Shades of the witch finders here. If the Icelanders want to vote for left wingers they will and those that don't like this will just have to lump it, after all the Icelanders are happy in their country with no recession and it's bankers in prison lol. They didn't bail out the banks they bailed out the people, as I said they are enterprising, how could you not be living there, and with the baby name law there is a compromise where you can have the unusual name made legal..

 

[Makalakumu]

A large encroaching central government isn't an American "right wing," thing

Funny, I get a different feeling about this every time I go to the airport and the TSA grabs my junk. :uhohh:

Bill, you cannot deny that there is a conservative and reactionary wing of the Republican party that would love nothing else than to restrict people's freedoms for cultural reasons. These people have pretty much taken over the "Tea Party" and are about as far from Libertarian as you can get. I see the same type reactionary and conservative elements around the world organizing to ban head scarves, ban gay marriage, ban evolution, ban Sharia law agreements, etc. These people want to throw Muslims into internment camps! These same conservative and reactionary elements want to destroy my property rights, freedom of speech, my right to privacy, and my right to Habeus Corpus. They also want the right to torture and mutilate my person if I dissent with the government.

There is no logical way you can conflate conservative elements of society with libertarian elements. Especially, when you point the lens of reason at our society! Bill, if the conservative and reactionary elements of our society could be limited to merely banning baby names, I think we'd feel pretty god damned free!

If you want to support freedom, you can't make exceptions, because soon the people with exceptions will crowd out the people who want freedom.

 

[Makalakumu]

You are incorrect, your daughter would take her mother's name not yours.

I stand corrected on the naming convention...

On Edit, maybe that was a premature concession on my part.

Birgitta Jonsdottir is an Icelandic politician who was instrumental in organizing the government against the bankers and turning Iceland into the bastion of personal freedom that is an example for the rest of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgitta_Jónsdóttir

It seems that her surname is not taken from her mothers...

 

[Tez3]

Iceland is one of those countries that give the Right Wingers nightmares. It's arggh... socialism at it's worst...people approving laws, being free, there's gay marriage, gay rights, anti racist laws and emancipated people, dear lord where will it all end.

The OP is somewhat misleading as it isn't government approval thats needed for a baby's name it's a legal requirement.
http://www.grapevine.is/Features/ReadArticle/getting-personal-with-names

 

[granfire]

Iceland is one of those countries that give the Right Wingers nightmares. It's arggh... socialism at it's worst...people approving laws, being free, there's gay marriage, gay rights, anti racist laws and emancipated people, dear lord where will it all end.

The OP is somewhat misleading as it isn't government approval thats needed for a baby's name it's a legal requirement.
http://www.grapevine.is/Features/ReadArticle/getting-personal-with-names

billie is just a bleeding heart liberal. let it go.




:lfao:

 

[GrandmasterP]

My niece the recreational pharmaceutical fan wanted her first (of many) born to be called JJ but the registrar would not allow that so he's JayJay.
Never been out of trouble since he started walking.

 

[billc]

As is the case with the media, hollywood, and academia, the truth about who the conservatives in America are is lied about. The conservatives want to conserve the ideas in our founding documents, the Declaration of Independence, The Bill of Rights, and The Constitution. If you look at those who seek to increase the power of the federal government, to impose all sorts of new laws and regulations on the people, it isn't the conservatives, but the "progressives." The recent battle over the 2nd amendment, freedom of speech issues, freedom of religion...are all being assaulted by the left/progressives in our country. It isn't the conservatives fighting to limit drink size, magazine size, the ability of a business to do business, to limit drink sizes, and light bulbs and toilets, and keep businesses from opening in their wards because they disagree with their religious stances...it is the left who is doing all of those things. There is another thread talking about the constitution and how a law professor, who isn't alone, thinks that the constitution is outdated...he isn't a conservative. It isn't the conservatives who want to give this President the sole power of increasing the debt limit.

As to the Tea Party, they are libertarians who aren't concerned with any social issues...all they want is to cut taxes, cut spending, and most want to protect the military...that's it. They are really a streamlined Libertarian party...who actually gets people elected. It is that part, the getting people elected part, which is the reason the "proggresives," seek to destroy them. That is why they are lied about by the media, hollywood and academia...they have to be smeared because the government must grow, and they don't want it to grow.

Makalakumu, you are confusing what Mark Levin would say are "statists," to what conservatives actually are. Statists want a large central government controlling the people. You find "statists," in all persuasions, from the secular to the religious. Conservatives seek to protect our founding principals from both. As Dennis Prager says, "The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen." Having to get your child's name cleared by the government pretty much fits Prager's and Levin's descriptions.

 

[Sukerkin]

I believe, as an outsider, that you are putting too righteous a spin on the Tea Parties motives and too paranoid a picture of the supposed dire powers that seek to keep them down.

 

[billc]

Then you would be mistaken Sukerkin.

 

[Sukerkin]

Or, more accurately, I would be correct.

There we go - argument resolved; the triumph of reason yet again :waves:.

 

[granfire]

Or, more accurately, I would be correct.

There we go - argument resolved; the triumph of reason yet again :waves:.

ah shucks, you and Tez are always reasonable!

 

[Big Don]

Stupid people give their kids stupid names. This isn't new, and will not change.
My sister had twin students in her kindergarten class, Shaquille and Shaquilla...
One of my cousins has daughters Kylie and Ariel. Another has daughters Taryn and Hailee, stupid people will also give their kids stupidly spelled names...
Stupid People will name their kids after celebrities, see George Washington Carver, John Wayne Gacy, etc.
Celebrity stupid people's kid's stupid names will be better known:
Scout Willis, Rumer Willis, Pilot Inspektor Lee, and holy crap, let us not forget Frank's kids, Moon Unit and Dweezil...
Then there is Rob Morrow's kid, Tu... the poor child...
The worst thing about stupid people is how vastly ya'll out number me.

 

[Sukerkin]

ah shucks, you and Tez are always reasonable!

:chuckles: Oh if only that were true . I used to be calm and logical as a Vulcan at one time but getting my brain battered in my motorcycle accident put an end to that .

 

[cdunn]

While odd on the face of things, the law is eminently reasonable in its scope and goals. Iceland isn't America, what's appropriate here and there are different.

Between the Icelandic tongue and the understanding that children do not belong to their parents, but are held in trust to become the property of their future selves, there's reasoning for the law, it has provision to meet its goals and has provisions to ensure that it's not applied where it shouldn't be in ways it shouldn't be.

I can see two reasons to object to the law: One, the concept that children are their parent's property until they reach the age of majority. This is pretty much specifically rejected throughout Icelandic law, from the tiny glimpses I've gotten. Two: The same objection that we have to English-only laws in the US. Except that it doesn't do much other than permit the preservation of the native language through the minimum effort.