Klondike93
Master Black Belt
I don't want to get too nosey Gou, but how expensive is Vlad's school and what all is included in that?
:asian:
I don't want to get too nosey Gou, but how expensive is Vlad's school and what all is included in that?
:asian:
ikenpo
Black Belt
Originally posted by RCastillo
Even more so. Sometimes I think I live in a Third World Country. Many people don't know what Kenpo is, and have never heard of SGM Parker. A sad commenatry for our country.
Not really, American Kenpo isn't really very old as a system in the grand scheme of things. It's your job to spread the word if it's that important to you. If your saying it well enough (verbally and physically) people will listen....right?
jb:asian:
ikenpo
Black Belt
bump...
Good comments Doug,
The only thing I would add is that is unfortunately (or fortunately) our Kenpo instructors aren't business experts so they don't apply business principles to the rates. They place themselves in positions (large expensive buildings) to have to charge an arm and a leg. Or just say, "well I'm worth $XXX and that is what I'm going to charge" and run off good potential students. One idea in business is that big money isn't the only kind of money to be made. Little money is good too if enough is made. Microsoft makes millions charging $300 per program. Well Intuit makes millions selling TurboTax for $20 per program...
This lack of business experience along with the connection to the "mystical" ways that do still exist as an under tone to the martial arts prevents this from being changed any time soon.
I say build a following at a realistic and reasonable rate then expand from there.....Otherwise, your really good and don't have anyone to train....And just how good is an instructor without students? Who knows? There's no continuing threat to say hey that guy was trained by so and so. See what he/she can develop you into....
Just my thoughts on a thread that lost steam and focus...
jb:asian:
JB,
Good answer. Now I'll explain why I charge what I do. When I opened my school, I only had 9 students. I had to figureout how I could make enough money to pay the rent, the electric and my gas back and forth. I figured out how much ot would gross each month and charged the original students correspondingly. I also took into account what would happen if I ever lost students, so a small buffer was built in. Now as business ebbs and flows, some months I make money and some I break even.
Good answer. Now I'll explain why I charge what I do. When I opened my school, I only had 9 students. I had to figureout how I could make enough money to pay the rent, the electric and my gas back and forth. I figured out how much ot would gross each month and charged the original students correspondingly. I also took into account what would happen if I ever lost students, so a small buffer was built in. Now as business ebbs and flows, some months I make money and some I break even.
ikenpo
Black Belt
Seig,
I respect any person that takes the plung and opens a full blown school. I also respect those that train of the garage and make shift dojos. In both cases you commit a lot of time and energy (of course, the believed value of this is up to the instructor (service provider) and the student (consumer) and these beliefs may not jive). I've been in both environments. I wonder what American Kenpo would be like if people didn't have to worry so much about keeping students to pay the bills? Or gouging students to pay the bills, and this certainly isn't in reference to you because I don't know you or your fees and I'm in Texas and will probably never study under you (although from the sparring picts I wouldn't mind coming over to play).
The mentality is certainly different when you depend on the money for livelihood, one is keep it real, the other is keep the lights on...this of course is a generalization and probably not fair...but I would argue that money (no not money...GREED) has ruined what martial arts and Kenpo in particular could be.
jb:asian:
Here are a few questions? Did you get a moderately sized location initially or did you go for the gusto? The picts on your site look like a rec center. Was that the extent of your business plan? Did you do projections for future and lay out plans on how they would be achieved? Did you stick to that schedule? At what point did you consider yourself a "success"? Did you have benchmarks to reach? Were they reached? Did you find that your training methods change when you opened the school? (that's a loaded question of course they did) Do you have individual consultations with your students to discuss their progress and what their personal goals are within the arts?
I started teaching at the local college until I built a dedicated following large enough to support my school. Once I had them, I researched a location. I wanted something close to the college and what I started with and still have is about 1000 SQ feet.
Honestly, I just explained my Initial Business Plan. I understand that most businesses do NOT make a killing their first year or two. I was told by several successful business owners not to plan on making any real money the first two years.
This business seems to be unpredicatble enough that I do not have a set schedule. I make small goals and try to acheive them, some I do, some I do not. At one point I had trippled my enrollment. But now, due to attrition and summer vacations, I am down to double my initial enrollment. But I ma working on building it back up. I have a little more money now to make improvements and advertise.
I considered the business a success when I reached my first anniversary with the rent still being made and the lights still on.
I did, but I found I had to redefine them. I was basing my benchmarks in terms of students enrolled. Now I make them based on bill spaid and improvements made.
Some were, others were not.
Yes, several times now.
All the time. I have to know what they expect, how they feel, etc, the reverse is also true.
R
RCastillo
Guest
Organized crime persons need NO BUSINESS PLAN. They ask politely, only once. After that, good luck, cause you'll need it!:wah:
G
GouRonin
Guest
Really he doesn't charge what he is easily worth. Thank god his wife keeps him in line or he'd go under.
I can only tell you what he charges me to work there and for materials and such and I will not do that in an open forum. Should you want to we can talk about this in private and keep it between us.
G
GouRonin
Guest
Everyone should read this post. Damn it. It's brilliant. JB, once the Kenpo community reads this you know they are going to want to kick you out of course. Heh. Good work!
Klondike93
Master Black Belt
That's cool, I respect that, I don't need to be that nosey.
R
RCastillo
Guest
True, it isn't very old when it's all said and done.
As I try to spread it, I find that people are as ignorant as ever before. They care not to research, and learn, they want it all to be given to them. As an educator, that just riles me up.
They still believe only what they see on the tube, or at the movies. When they see what's really involved, the true believer really thins out. They don't want work, and discipline, just the "Hollywood" version. Many just do not want to develop themselves. Very sad indeed
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
Having just dipped in on this thread, and being aware enough of my own limitations not to even dream of ever opening my own studio, I can't comment on cost.
What I can do is to agree that there are no secrets: it's the same thing I tell my students in English, and the thing they hate to hear. There are no shortcuts. I'm not holding something mysterious, some quick fix, some magic potion, back from them. To learn to write well, you sit it a chair, you write and rewrite, you read a lot, you get somebody who has half a clue about what to look for in writing, you develop what the Germans called, "sitzfleisch." Your butt gets big, you learn to write. No way around it.
Hopefully, kenpo would in physical terms mean the opposite of the big tailfeathers. However, I quite agree that when all else fails, go work out. Short of working out, nothing will help.
What I can do is to agree that there are no secrets: it's the same thing I tell my students in English, and the thing they hate to hear. There are no shortcuts. I'm not holding something mysterious, some quick fix, some magic potion, back from them. To learn to write well, you sit it a chair, you write and rewrite, you read a lot, you get somebody who has half a clue about what to look for in writing, you develop what the Germans called, "sitzfleisch." Your butt gets big, you learn to write. No way around it.
Hopefully, kenpo would in physical terms mean the opposite of the big tailfeathers. However, I quite agree that when all else fails, go work out. Short of working out, nothing will help.
ikenpo
Black Belt
Dude,
Your in Corpus! It's the land of the Salina museum and where Whataburger was founded. There's hardly any Kenpo in Houston what do you expect near the border.
Nothings wrong with a person's ignorance, my thought would be that that should excite you. If they know everything already why come to you? Here is a blank slate that you (an educator) have an opportunity to make an impression on. But you gotta be able to bring it. I spoke with Gary and he said you have a real sweet set up. I've got a few ideas on how you might build you stuff up. If you interested email me and I'll make some strategic suggestions.
jb:asian:
Goldendragon7
Grandmaster
Bruce "Ricardo" Lopez
start working those chucks and sticks......
:rofl:
start working those chucks and sticks......
:rofl:
S
Stick Dummy
Guest
Cheech Marin as Mr. Miyagi?????????
Sttttttttttttttop Mikey My ribs hurt!!!
Sttttttttttttttop Mikey My ribs hurt!!!
R
RCastillo
Guest
Great, we can start on the sequal, "Enter The Dragon II.":samurai:
R
RCastillo
Guest
Too late, I 'm already acting like that now.:wink:
kenpo3631
Black Belt
Well speaking from experience...
I opened my first studio in 1992. I charged $4 per lesson or $45 per month. Needless to say I was drastically under priced, yet I had people haggle with me about the cost of lessons! I bumped it up to $55 then a year later to $65 dollars per month.
I closed my studio in 1998 for family reasons and currently teach privately.
About a year after I closed I walked into a Tae Kwon Do dojang. Just out of curiosity I went in to ask for prices, to see what people are charging. Well to my surprise a mom of 3 of my old students was behind the desk! This was one of the people that had hagled over the $45 dollars per month that I used to charge!
Her kids were now going there. She explained to me the pricing.
$85 per month, plus $50 for belt testing (mandatory testing by the way). That's over a $1000 per year, per child plus testing. The family plan was 1/2 for each additional family member. You do the math...
What's my point? The tuition you recieve is proportional to the value you place on your program. If you can show someone that the value of your program is worth $85, then people will pay it! Too many times instructors, charge way too little for the programs they provide and in turn short change themselves. I by all means am NOT saying you should charge $1000 per month just because you think it is worth that much, but I AM saying look at what you are offering in comparision to those around you and price accordingly. If Joe Shmoe up the street charges $55 per month and you know your program is worth more, then by all means you should be able to charge $65 and have no quams about it.
:asian:
I opened my first studio in 1992. I charged $4 per lesson or $45 per month. Needless to say I was drastically under priced, yet I had people haggle with me about the cost of lessons! I bumped it up to $55 then a year later to $65 dollars per month.
I closed my studio in 1998 for family reasons and currently teach privately.
About a year after I closed I walked into a Tae Kwon Do dojang. Just out of curiosity I went in to ask for prices, to see what people are charging. Well to my surprise a mom of 3 of my old students was behind the desk! This was one of the people that had hagled over the $45 dollars per month that I used to charge!
Her kids were now going there. She explained to me the pricing.
$85 per month, plus $50 for belt testing (mandatory testing by the way). That's over a $1000 per year, per child plus testing. The family plan was 1/2 for each additional family member. You do the math...
What's my point? The tuition you recieve is proportional to the value you place on your program. If you can show someone that the value of your program is worth $85, then people will pay it! Too many times instructors, charge way too little for the programs they provide and in turn short change themselves. I by all means am NOT saying you should charge $1000 per month just because you think it is worth that much, but I AM saying look at what you are offering in comparision to those around you and price accordingly. If Joe Shmoe up the street charges $55 per month and you know your program is worth more, then by all means you should be able to charge $65 and have no quams about it.
:asian:
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