At what point do we step in?

[Tames D]

As Martial Artists, at what point in a confrontation (concerning others) do we step in and get involved? Or do/should we?

Last week after my kids Karate class we got into the car to drive home when we noticed a verbal confrontation between a loudmouth customer and the storekeeper of a convenience store in the doorway of the store. I've gotten to know the storekeeper a bit as we have gone into the store after classes on occasions. The loudmouth had a buddy with him that was sitting in the car not getting involved.

I decided that if the buddy got out of the car I would get involved at that point. I hated that my kids were seeing this but I just couldn't drive away until I knew that the storekeeper was ok. (He was handling himself pretty well btw).

How do you guys feel about this type of situation?

 

[bluemtn]

I would stay away from the confrontation (physically), unless of course either I or my children (I don't have any, but you said you do...). The assistance I'd give is call 911/ police, if there was even a hint of an escalation. Too many people are either ticking time- bombs ready to go off (like the irate customer), or ready to sue at the drop of a hat.

 

[Lisa]

I remember coming out to my car in the parking lot of a shopping center to find a man and a woman arguing loudly. I wasn't sure what to do, so I stopped a few feet away from them and watched. So did a few others. Our being there caused the man to back off and leave and allowed the girl to get in her car and go home after one of the gentlemen that was "making his presence known" talked to her.

I think if it would have looked like it would have been violent I would have said or done something, being pregnant at the time there was little "physical" I could have done.

 

[Ella]

Something to think about;

Pretend you see two guys on the street, one standing over the other, bloody and fallen? Or one, having just punched the other in the face?








I read once that if a person came into the middle of a fight, they are MUCH more likely to be sympathetic to the one whos been hit/is injured. But it could be that the one who did the hitting was acting in self defense. Just something to think about.

 

[Tames D]

Something to think about;

Pretend you see two guys on the street, one standing over the other, bloody and fallen? Or one, having just punched the other in the face?








I read once that if a person came into the middle of a fight, they are MUCH more likely to be sympathetic to the one whos been hit/is injured. But it could be that the one who did the hitting was acting in self defense. Just something to think about.

Good point.

 

[Hand Sword]

Qui-Gon,

Considering the situation, and you with the kids, you did the right thing. For the question in general, At work I have to due to the fact that I'm security. On my own time, tough call. If it's friends involved, or a severe mismatch, where one is getting pounded, stepping in is necessary. A call to the police would be in order too. Otherwise, a straight up scrap between two, no stepping in. Treat it like a hockey referre at worst, and call the cops.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I've found that simply standing just inside the circle of perception for both people will defuse many situations.

If there's a tussel underway, I'd be apt to call 911 and stay out of it, unless it looks like somebody's getting out of hand. Stepping into a fight is a good way to get cold cocked by the guy you're trying to help.

 

[Tames D]

I remember coming out to my car in the parking lot of a shopping center to find a man and a woman arguing loudly. I wasn't sure what to do, so I stopped a few feet away from them and watched. So did a few others. Our being there caused the man to back off and leave and allowed the girl to get in her car and go home after one of the gentlemen that was "making his presence known" talked to her.

I think if it would have looked like it would have been violent I would have said or done something, being pregnant at the time there was little "physical" I could have done.

I think you made a good call not to get physically involved while pregnant.

 

[MA-Caver]

Some folks ... even if they're losing would get pissed off because you stepped in to help out. Some are ever-grateful and take off running leaving you to clean up the mess. Some will chip in and be embolden to go farther than they would've had they'd been alone before your intervention.

It's a real sticky this question of ethics. Do we or do we not? If anything calling 911 before doing ANYTHING like unto intervention/stepping in, will go a long way in helping your side of the case should you find yourself standing before a judge on this matter. Even being a hero has it's consequences.

Common sense here should prevail shouldn't it? If it's an elderly person being harassed/assaulted by someone obviously younger than they are then yeah. A small child being picked on by an older grade student... yeah.
An armed robbery... c'mon what's probably the best thing you can do... besides calling 911? Get as much visual information as you can; the suspects, the car they drive-away in (if any) and so on.

Don't risk your life unless you can stop the situation and all concerned can come out of it in one piece.

 

[Tames D]

But realistically, even a quick response from a 911 call probably wouldn't arrive in time. You could possibly witness a pummeling by the time help arrived.

 

[Ella]

Maybe I'm stupid. But I know that if I witnessed a physical confrontation and did not step in, the thought of what I could've done to help would haunt me. On any given sunday, a completely untrained person could get in a lucky shot and end me. But I'm willing to take that chance.

 

[Carol]

I've been in stores and seen heated conversations and called 911.

The police arrived and after removing the offending character, both the police and the shopkeepers thanked me.

I don't hesitate to call 911 when I am out and about because I am frequently out and about after midnight.

However, a confrontation during daylight hours is no less serious of a matter than a confrontation at night.

 

[MBuzzy]

I feel the best response is to call 911, but monitor the situation - if it gets too out of hand and someone is about to get seriously injured, step in for the sole reason of trying to STOP the altercation.

I wouldn't under any circumstances jump in and start pummelling someone.

 

[Shaderon]

I'd call the emergency services after monitoring for a bit to see if it was calming down. I wouldn't get involved unless it was really obvious what was going on, if an adult battering a kid for instance I would probably jump in straight away, or if witnessing the initial attack only if I knew I could diffuse the situation. Like Ella pointed out, it's really difficult to determine what's happened if you come into a situation half way through and you don't know who the person in the right is. If you aren't on your own you can try and seperate the parties but even this sometimes causes the problem to escalate. Best leaving it to those who are required to deal with it and hang around to be a witness if required.

 

[MJS]

As Martial Artists, at what point in a confrontation (concerning others) do we step in and get involved? Or do/should we?

Last week after my kids Karate class we got into the car to drive home when we noticed a verbal confrontation between a loudmouth customer and the storekeeper of a convenience store in the doorway of the store. I've gotten to know the storekeeper a bit as we have gone into the store after classes on occasions. The loudmouth had a buddy with him that was sitting in the car not getting involved.

I decided that if the buddy got out of the car I would get involved at that point. I hated that my kids were seeing this but I just couldn't drive away until I knew that the storekeeper was ok. (He was handling himself pretty well btw).

How do you guys feel about this type of situation?

I usually tend to stay more on the cautious side. Calling the police, giving them a detailed picture of whats going on, would be the best bet IMHO. Description of the person, car he is in, plate number, etc., are all key things to aid the police.

Its a tough decision, because once you put yourself into the situation, it may be hard to get out. For example: you see a male and female in a verbal argument. You decided to step in on behalf of the female. Although your intent was good, the situation could reverse, with not only the male half to deal with, but the female may turn on your as well.

I doubt the storekeeper would have taken a swing at you, but the possibility of the other guy getting out of the car is something to think about, although, if he was going to get out, you'd figure he would've already been out.

Just my .02

Mike

 

[charyuop]

Many people here say call 911, but in certain conditions I would step in. Ella even said she would feel guilty if she did nothing...
But what you would do????
I mean think the situation mentioned by QUI-GON. You see those two on the door having a verbal fight, you stay close to step in if things get worse. Things do get worse and they start swinging with hands...so what you do????

1_ Getting close and try to stop them both, maybe even by talking? You would just probably get hit a few times in trying it.
2_ Get close and grab the punch of the last one swinging trying to get control of him? The other one would thank you and would hit many times the poor guy who can't defend himslef.
3_ Push one of the two out of the way? Well that would leave you in his place to receive the next swinging fist.
4_ Knock them both out? Maybe the best solution, but better be good in doing it because chances they both jump on you and knock you out are very high.

So what to actually do????

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

I would get involved anytime I thought someone innocent was going to be seriously harmed. If two guys are talking crap than they can beat themselves to death for all I care.

I think you did the right thing allowing the store owner to handle things himself and standing by to cover his back if the other guys decided to go dirty on him. Good job looking out!

 

[INDYFIGHTER]

In this case I think I would just have made sure the store owner didn't get double teamed. I'd have just taken out the second guy the moment I saw him get involved. Then I would probably help the store owner fend off the first guy.

 

[Grenadier]

Unless you're darn sure of the situation, your best bet is to call the authorities, and observe.

There have been times where a would-be good Samaritan saw one guy beating up another guy, obviously having the upper hand in the fight, and the Samaritan tries to pull the guy on top away.

As a result, the guy on the bottom receiving the beating, quickly thanks the would-be good Samaritan, and runs away.

Unfortunately, the guy on the bottom was a robber / mugger / etc., who was getting his just desserts from his would-be victim, and in the end, it was the good Samaritan who ended up inadvertantly helping a criminal escape.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Many people here say call 911, but in certain conditions I would step in. Ella even said she would feel guilty if she did nothing...
But what you would do????
I mean think the situation mentioned by QUI-GON. You see those two on the door having a verbal fight, you stay close to step in if things get worse. Things do get worse and they start swinging with hands...so what you do????

1_ Getting close and try to stop them both, maybe even by talking? You would just probably get hit a few times in trying it.
2_ Get close and grab the punch of the last one swinging trying to get control of him? The other one would thank you and would hit many times the poor guy who can't defend himslef.
3_ Push one of the two out of the way? Well that would leave you in his place to receive the next swinging fist.
4_ Knock them both out? Maybe the best solution, but better be good in doing it because chances they both jump on you and knock you out are very high.

So what to actually do????

I mentioned earlier a strategy that's worked very well for me in the past. If they're still at the arguing stage, just step inside their peripheral vision. This very often defuses the situation if you're a guy. If you're a pretty lass, it might have the opposite effect.

I am not a pretty lass, so I don't know for sure.

If that's not enough, another good trick is to engage one of the guys about an unrelated subject. In the OP's case, I might have asked the shopkeeper how much something cost, or to help me find the Corona. Something like that.