At least 20 dead in campus shootings
- Thread starter Ping898
- Start date
If they have passed the course, passed the background checks, and possess all proper permits, then I have no qualms about that. They are no more likely to go around shooting people, than your average car driver would go around trying to run over people.
I've heard several times now that law enforcement thought the first shooting was thought to be an isolated incident specific to those two people with the perpetrator long gone.
To most non Americans the carrying of guns is sheer madness and I'm afraid we will never understand it. Even though gun crime among young gang members is increasing here in certain places.... in imitation of the American gun/gang scene, there has been no call here for us all to be armed.
And you should be thankful that the British culture is what it is.
It's not a gun issue. It's always going to be a cultural issue, and to a lesser extent, an individual issue (which can be directly attributed to the culture).
On another note, this was not the deadliest school massacre of all time. That awful "title" goes to the incident that happened in Bath, Michigan.
Just to show you what some people are capable of doing with commonly-available materials (and not a single firearm used):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
It's scary that individuals like Andrew Kehoe can do this.
Just to show you what some people are capable of doing with commonly-available materials (and not a single firearm used):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
It's scary that individuals like Andrew Kehoe can do this.
No, it was the deadliest use of a gun on a school campus... The Bath tragedy was done with dynamite. Of course that's splitting hairs. Innocent students were killed at both.
The difference is that with the Bath incident we at least know the reason why... with this one at VT... unless they find someone who talked to the shooter or find his personal writings or whatever... we may never know why.
Talking to someone at work today about it they said: "...that was a sad way to show the world you're really crazy..." I replied, "no, that was a sad way to show determination."
Jonathan
Blue Belt
Sorry, I didn't mean that they'd go on rampages- but rather, that fire discipline would have to be exercised.
Consider the notion that, say, two students are armed. Gunman starts his spree. First student responds, firing on the gunman. Second student, from another classroom, acting on limited info, fires on the first student.
The problem with the idea isn't the people specifically, not their training- but that they probably aren't trained to respond to a group incident. That's what I meant by responsible. My fear would be that there'd be a 'me vs. them' mentality, where a knee-jerk reaction only brings more sorrow.
I'm not quite sure what you expected a police chief, especially if it was the city of Blacksburg's chief, and not the chief of the campus police, to say regarding the sources of information or process of an active and on-going investigation. And this is still an active and on-going investigation, and will be for some days yet to come. As a general rule, details about the sources wouldn't be publicized for very important reasons, like protecting witnesses and avoiding contaminating the pool of witnesses. I spent more than enough time a few years ago chasing phantom white trucks in the DC area...
As to the decision on classes... There's a lot to look at. At the time of the first shooting, many students would already be on their way to class, or even in the buildings already; many of those students also live off campus, and the school admittedly lacks a very effective manner of notifying students. The initial evaluation by the officers who responded to the scene apparently led them to believe that it was not the precursor of a major event; I don't know what they found or didn't find there. I trust that everyone believes that every effort to prevent the second phase of this would have been taken had they had any practical warning ("disturbing" class writings that are being reported are not necessarily practical warnings; the police may not have had the ability to link the two deaths in the dorm to that student's writings -- especially if they were unaware of them!). The administration and the police, in their best reading of the facts at hand at the time, decided the safest course (for numerous reasons) was to allow class to go on as scheduled. Sadly, I'm confident that had they cancelled classes, the shooter would have likely found another location... and probably somewhere that the students, freed from class, were congretating.
Guns are, for good or ill, part of the US culture. In fact, I'd even be willing to say they're part of the American culture. The use is one of them most diverse collections of differing cultures to be found anywhere -- and as a general rule, they get along. Britian (and most of Europe) is much, much more homogenous.
The US is also a much less regulated society than many other countries -- with much stronger protections for the individual against governmental intrusion. Even when that intrusion is at least well intentioned, and possibly for the best benefit of all.
And -- the simple fact is that gun bans here have not worked. It's quite difficult to own a pistol in NYC -- yet lots of people get shot there. Until recently, almost all firearms were prohibited in DC. Lots and lots of folks still managed to shoot each other...
But this is not really a case of "guns being violent." A gun is, in and of itself, simply an object. If I leave my gun on the table -- it's not going to kill anyone. Someone has to pick it up, and pull the trigger. This is clearly a case of a very violent individual, who made a series of choices to do harm to those around him. Blaming this incident on guns is as wrong as it is to blame everyone who ran, rather than attacking the shooter, or the school for not closing. Had he been unable to easily obtain a gun -- this guy would almost certainly have found some other way to express the violence in his soul. Depending on how he did this -- it might have been even more tragic; we can't simply assume he would have gone wild with a baseball bat without at least admitting the possibility of mass poisinings, bombings or even a simple vehicular rampage across an occupied picnic or playing field.
Ah, I saw a documentary about this lot with Louis Theroux, a truly amazing bunch of sick moronic weirdos. Much as I champion free speech, they really make me wonder why I bother! I hope somehow they are stopped somehow, I'd look the other way for sure!
CoryKS
Senior Master
I truly hope that Kansas never enacts a ban against funeral protests. Ol' Phred can't live forever, and I suspect that the warped son of a ***** will get quite a turnout at his own funeral.
There are no back ground checks at gun shows.I totally agree! I am with you on this Grenadier.
Sean
The victim mentality strikes again.
Sean
jetboatdeath
Blue Belt
There is in Illinois.
Jonathan
Blue Belt
Oh, yeah, and Jack Thompson and Dr. Phil are using this opportunity to turn this into some anti-video game crusade.
Not that ol' Jackie boy needed a reason or anything.
This is not correct.
Most people selling firearms at gun shows are FFL holders, and by law, must conduct the standard NICS checks on all firearms purchases.
The only ones who are exempt from the background checks, are individuals making private sales. Such individuals are but a very small percentage of those making sales at gun shows, and when it comes down to it, it's up to the individual to be sure of the person to whom he is selling the firearm.
OP
OP
For those wishing to make donations to help out VTech in the aftermath of this tragedy, they have created the Hokie Spirit Memorial fund
The fund has been established to cover expenses including but not limited to:
The fund has been established to cover expenses including but not limited to:
- Grief counseling
- Memorials
- Communication expenses
- Comfort expenses
- Incidental needs
