Are Yearly Contracts the Norm Now?

[JAMJTX]

"Are these contract the norm now? Is it just a location thing?"

They are the norm at schools where money matters most. At these contract schools (aka McDojo) you will also likely find a lot of kids, very young black belts, watered down arts and easy promotions with higher than normal certificate fees. The certificate fees (how much and how often) are also something you should ask a commercial instructor.

Good teachers understand that martial arts are not for everyone and most people quit. (Especially the young kids that fill up the McDojos change thier minds often). They want dedicated people in thier schools and don't want to take time away from dedicated students to teach someone who really does not want to be there. They also care about thier reputation.

Having people locked into a contract who wants to leave is not good for the student, the school or the instructor. The best teachers will never have these kinds of contracts - especially not the kind that they sell to a collection agency and you make your payments to them rather than the school.

 

[Danny T]

Hello All,
Hello All,
I have a training center and we do "Agreements" (contracts)!
Was opposed for many years to them however, it comes down to commitment. Only 15% of our students are children (under the age of 13) approx 65% are adults (18 on up). Biggest problem we had was students (mostly the adults) not attending. Signed up and trained for 3-4 months and found other things in life got in the way. They would come once a week or sometimes a couple of times a month. Always had an excuse of something came up. We looked very hard at our programs, instructors, schedule of classes, and performed interviews with students and parents. Also had an anonymous questionnaire for them to fill out. The number one reason given by most as to why they found it difficult to continue or make the classes was they didn't have to. Even those who "loved" everything about training, it was the ability to just not go that allow them to make excuses to not train.

So we had developed;
The Agreement of Tuition, Training, and Instruction.

Basically one year of tuition for instruction and training in a particular art for two one hour session per week is X amt of $$. PMATC is committed to instruct and train that art from date XX-XX-2005 to XX-XX-2006 for X amt. The student can pay the tuition up front and receive a discount or by the month. If you don't attend classes the tuition is still owed and must be paid. What happened was attendance increased to a monthly average of 97% and the student enrollment increased by 28%. The only thing we changed was the tuition agreement.

We do have a release clause in case of job loss, disability, or moving out of the area, so there is some flexibility within the agreement. We allow new prospective students to view and participate in any two classes for no charge so they know what they are in for. After that all we want is a commitment from them that they will attend and train for one year. We are committed to provide an excellent training facility, training environment, and instruction to the student which will enhance their learning experience and martial growth. They are committed to attend, learn and train. It is all about commitment!

Since instituting The Agreement we have performed two polls with our students. The first at 4 months and the second at the llth month to learn what caused the increase in attendance and more importantly, the increase in our enrollment. Again the number one answer was the sense of commitment we were asking them to make and our commitment to them and how that commitment pressed them to make classes and to continue. At the end of the first year of using our "Agreement" we had a 98% retention and sign up for year 2.

Contract and Agreements work due to the committment the student must make to themselves as well as the training center.

Danny Terrell
Progressive Martial Arts Training Center
Wing Chun * Muay Thai * Kali * Grappling

 

[autumn1973]

My school charges monthly. There is some other school nearby that also charges monthly but they were more expensive (with 3 of us going it would have been a stretch financially and that dojo is kind of like a McDojo, heh heh, I like my instructors way of doing things better)
I do remember my husband bringing home a disclaimer type thingy to sign- we may have to hit you in odd places so don't sue us type of thing- which is perfectly okay because sometimes you do get hit in the, um, for lack of a better term...boobs or crotch area and obviously they have to cover themselves but that's all we had to sign, no contract or anything.

Sometimes I wonder if my MA instructor should have contracts, even if it is just quarterly, because it would certainly make life easier for him from a business standpoint.
Half the students show up when they feel like it and I am pretty sure that some of them pay when they feel like it too. I think he just loves to share his knowledge but it is unfair of the other students to keep doing that to him IMO.

 

[Grenadier]

There's nothing wrong with yearly contracts, as long as the school also allows something that is less than a yearly contract as well. Some people will want to quit after a few months, some even shorter than that.

Many schools offer quarterly contracts (3 months at one time), in addition to the yearly+ contracts, so that all bases are covered.

If a school insists that you have to sign something that is no shorter than a year, then that's where I get wary.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I have my first class at a Kenpo studio this coming Monday. a week at The class is around 2.5-3.0 hours long, and the price is just $10 a class. Best of all no test fees.

HKF

 

[TheBattousai]

I hate to see and hear such things happen in the martial arts, but hopefully things will change.

 

[Fluffy]

Yup and welcome to the group!

The big difference between 1985 and 2005 is the professionalism. The days of running a school month to month are done, in most casses that is. The Professional school is a business, and has to be run as such to keep the doors open. Expect "programs" aka contracts to be out there. It's the norm. Also expect a collection agancy to be collecting the monthly fees, I don't like being both the instructor and the guy squeezing you for your money.

But look out for the downfalls, long contracts - longer than 12 months - not always bad but signing someone off the street to a 36 month contract is should raise a red flag. Look out for hidden fees, if they do not tell you about testing fees or required gear, I would not trust them. Also ask about how aften they test, you do not want the curreculem shoved down your throat, you want time for reflection and practice.

Master Fluffy

 

[1redcat]

My school charges monthly, although you can pay quarterly or semi-annually and get a price break. The norm around here seems to be a quarterly contract. Testing fees are extra, but at my level are not particularly staggering.

 

[Kacey]

I think that yearly contracts (or other term lengths) have become more popular for the reasons already stated - commitment, income flow, convenience (autodraft can be a great thing for many bills), and so on. If done properly, as described by some posters, contracts are not a bad thing if, as discussed, there are other options available and there are contract terminations available - if not, you are being scammed - RUN, do not walk, out the door.

There is a McDojo chain in my area which runs on contracts that are worded (more or less) "I, the undersigned, agree to pay $X every month for Y months. In return, IF I attend class at least Z times per month, I will attain X rank". There is no termination clause in these contracts - I knew someone who went who signed up her 10 year-old at one of these places on a 3-year contract, and after a year her daughter developed other interests... a year later, my friend was STILL paying on the contract; it was expensive, but a lot cheaper than the court costs to try to break the contract.

Some years ago, after I received my teacher's license, I met the owner of this chain at a teacher job fair; he was out in the lobby with the Peace Corps and a couple of other businesses that wanted to hire teachers for various reasons, mostly as corporate trainers. I decided to talk to him to see why he was there. What he told me was, for some reason, while he had plenty of students, he didn't seem to have any who were good instructors (go figure:idunno. So he decided to hire teachers, pay them minimum wage to work out 30 hours a week for 9-12 weeks, test them, assign them a rank, and set them up in franchises as instructors - and he described this plan in a way that made it clear he thought it was perfectly reasonable. I thanked him for his time and never looked back - newer dictionaries should have a picture of his logo as the definition of McDojo.

While I know there must be instructors who use contracts and do so properly, this experience has left me prejudiced against contract establishments. I teach at a YMCA, which has (of all things) a 7-week session; they don't offer any other options for payment - the only options are join the Y and get a discount, or pay the non-member rate for the class - and the Y very carefully sets it up such that the difference between Y membership + class cost is very close to paying the non-member rate, so most of my students are members of the Y, even if they don't use the facility for anything else. If I were instructing as a career, rather than a sideline, I suspect I would do things differently, but as things stand, I like it the way it is.

 

[Marginal]

Some years ago, after I received my teacher's license, I met the owner of this chain at a teacher job fair; he was out in the lobby with the Peace Corps and a couple of other businesses that wanted to hire teachers for various reasons, mostly as corporate trainers. I decided to talk to him to see why he was there. What he told me was, for some reason, while he had plenty of students, he didn't seem to have any who were good instructors (go figure:idunno. So he decided to hire teachers, pay them minimum wage to work out 30 hours a week for 9-12 weeks, test them, assign them a rank, and set them up in franchises as instructors - and he described this plan in a way that made it clear he thought it was perfectly reasonable. I thanked him for his time and never looked back - newer dictionaries should have a picture of his logo as the definition of McDojo.

Sounds like Stephen Oliver's Mile High Karate.

 

[Kacey]

Sounds like Stephen Oliver's Mile High Karate.

Since you mentioned it... yeah, it was. Are you in Denver, or has his, uh, fame spread farther than that?

 

[jdinca]

We have 4, 8 and 12 month contracts. The longer the contract, the better the price. The 12 month also includes more private lessons.

 

[arnisador]

We have 4, 8 and 12 month contracts. The longer the contract, the better the price.

Yeah, where I take JKD/BJJ I started out on the month-to-month, then went to the 4 month rolling contract for a $10/month break. I find that a fair deal.

 

[ldgman1970]

My school does six month and year contracts and you get a better deal if you sign up for a year. The big difference at my school is that you are required to pay the full amount for whatever contract length you sign up for. I was a little shocked by this at first but I think from an administrative and cash flow point of view this makes things a lot easier. You have to remember that most martial arts studios aren't like health clubs where they have thousands of members paying monthly so I can see how cash flow would be a major concern. I also think people are more likely to at least commit for awhile once they have shelled out for six months or a year. My shool does have an introductory program for $35 which includes five private lessons and three group classes and I think this more than ample time for someone decide if they like the school and the style.

 

[Marginal]

Since you mentioned it... yeah, it was. Are you in Denver, or has his, uh, fame spread farther than that?

I'm near Denver, which is close enough since he seems to have a school on every corner, and advertises like mad to boot. There's one of his schools in Boulder, and one recently opened in Lafayette as well.

I'm mainly aware of him because of other message boards and mailing lists. He usually gets mentioned when someone starts talking about contrracts. I've read similar accounts on usenet etc.

 

[green meanie]

Hey Folks;

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. I can understand both perspectives.

But at the end of the day, I have to go with what I feel most comforatble with...what works for *me*. And luckily, I found a no contract school earlier tonight. It's an independant dojo and maybe that's also part of it. The class is a bit younger than me, but I like the instructors style and it's about a 15 minute drive.

BTW, DavidCC, I think that's admirable that you take care of the folks who have to go TDY!

Keep us posted! Tell us what you found and how things are going there.
And welcome aboard!

 

[Fluffy]

Since you mentioned it... yeah, it was. Are you in Denver, or has his, uh, fame spread farther than that?

He's in every MA trade mag I see, full page adds in MA Success and MA Pro. The Denver area is one of the hot spots for TKD, with Master Oliver and the home of the USTF around the corner.

~Fluff

 

[Kacey]

He's in every MA trade mag I see, full page adds in MA Success and MA Pro. The Denver area is one of the hot spots for TKD, with Master Oliver and the home of the USTF around the corner.

~Fluff

I guess I've been ignoring the ads more successfully than I realized - I didn't notice that Stephen Oliver's rep had spread that far. The extent of the USTF I was aware of, but last I heard they weren't using contracts.

 

[Fluffy]

We've decided to use 6 month and 1 year contracts (programs) at our new club....

 

[Fluffy]

I guess I've been ignoring the ads more successfully than I realized - I didn't notice that Stephen Oliver's rep had spread that far. The extent of the USTF I was aware of, but last I heard they weren't using contracts.

Have I asked you if you knew Master Gerry Brown (USTF) out of Greeley (sp)? Forgive me if I already have.........