Are there ANY genuine Shaolin monks?

[oxy]

My mother-in-law is a devout Buddhist and mainland Chinese and she is not a Shaolin Monk either

[/FONT][/COLOR]

But can she kick your ****?

 

[Mider1985]

He is one of the people I have trained with over the years and he may or may not be Buddhist, I never asked him and he never said anything about it, but even if he is he is most certainly not a Shaolin Monk. He is from Taiwan and he did not learn his MA from Shaolin or from a Shaolin Monk.

He does however teach Shaolin Kung Fu, as do many people who are not from the Shaolin Monastery or associated with it in any way. Dr Yang also teaches Ynag style Taijiquan and he is not a Taoist priest either nor is he a member of the Yang Taijiquan family. He also teaches Qinna, Qigong, and White Crane.

My mother-in-law is a devout Buddhist and mainland Chinese and she is not a Shaolin Monk either

Ok so does he teach proper shaolin arts or are you saying he's teaching a watereddown version?

 

[Tensei85]

I think were kind of forgetting there is thin line & not very distinguishable between what is Shaolin & what is not. During the years of Shaolin before during & even after it was destroyed, rebuilt etc... Shaolin was always an ecclectic blend of things Shaolin & things from outside sources.

Look for example during the time of Wang Lang he was a Shaolin Monk, he ended up bringing in 17 other systems to complete his Tong Long Pai & Shaolin 7 Star Praying Mantis is definitely a Shaolin system. (Take note the wording of Shaolin in 7 Star Praying Mantis, lol just kidding but truthfully)

Shaolin was a melting pot so its really hard to distinguish what is & what is not Shaolin, & now adays what is & what is not Shaolin Contemporary Wushu.

The Last of Warrior Monks died out in early to mid 80's so it became hard to varify things after that time period as most Chinese systems always used oral histories as opposed to written histories so in that case even the Quan Pu may or may not be very accurate for dates, time periods, legends etc...

But I will say it would seem intelligent to assume that most of the "real" Shaolin monks/arts would in fact have went to Taiwan, as loyalists of the Ming royal family would have went to Taiwan with the rest of the family during the Qing dynasty's 1st years.

So for example Tai Zu Chang Quan (Tai Jo Cheung Kuen) was invented by Tai Zu "Emperor" so is in fact not Shaolin by the means of invention but however do to his connnection with Shaolin it now is, & was also incorporated into Northern Mantis at Shaolin during the 1600's.

So I think the old saying applies to this "Everything under the Sun is Shaolin".

 

[Tensei85]

Dr Yawn Ming who runs the YMAA is not a monk but he comes REALLYYYYYYYYYYY close.

I would say who cares if he's a monk or not, can he beat the crap out of you (probably), does he have countless information, skills to offer (definitely) thats what counts.

Its not like saying your a monk means anything anyways, I "Bai Shi" as a Buddhist but I'm definitely not a Shaolin Monk, I study Shaolin Gong Fu but I'm still definitely not a Shaolin Monk.

You have to remember there are countless sects of Buddhism and only one is Shaolin.

 

[Mider1985]

Each dvd mostly shows Wing Lam training using diffrent weapons so is it just washu or shaolin arts?

http://www.wle.com/store/wlv_hunggar_dvd.html

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ok so does he teach proper shaolin arts or are you saying he's teaching a watereddown version?

Define proper Shaolin.

Does he teach the same Shaolin that you could get out of old traditional Shaolin Monastery? No

But that does not mean watered down. Just because it is labeled Shaolin does not mean it is directly from or the same as the Shaolin Monastery. There is a guy near me that teaches Shaolin too (Northern Shaolin) and it is not watered down and it is not from the Shaolin Monastery. It is from Chin Woo and although I do not know Dr Yang's Shaolin Lineage he is also teaching Northern Shaolin.

You are getting the Shaolin monks mixed up with styles called Shaolin. There are various versions that likely have their source from Shaolin a hundred or so years ago but it is not the same as it as.

I've done Tuishou with Dr Yang and regardless of where his Shaolin comes from I can tell you from painful experience his Qinna is VERY good.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Each dvd mostly shows Wing Lam training using diffrent weapons so is it just washu or shaolin arts?

http://www.wle.com/store/wlv_hunggar_dvd.html

That is Hung Gar

 

[Wondering Spirit]

I will try not to (snake)-step on anyones toes, but here goes:

During my trips to mainland China, I've experienced lots of monasteries, both taoist and buddhist.
What one tends to forget is that not all monks become monks to gain insight and enlightenment. Many people (from my experience) become monks in order to have a place to live, food to eat, and a "job".
Also, lots of people are monks for a time and then leave again to become "normal" citizens.

Why not think of the "wushu"-monks as a possible salvation of the arts - albeit somewhat athletic and circusy - BUT they live in monasteries, train hard all day long, and (to the best of my knowledge) are buddhist.
Do anyone of you know that they are "bad" buddhists?


Also: What's orange and bald??

 

[Xue Sheng]

I will try not to (snake)-step on anyones toes, but here goes:

During my trips to mainland China, I've experienced lots of monasteries, both taoist and buddhist.
What one tends to forget is that not all monks become monks to gain insight and enlightenment. Many people (from my experience) become monks in order to have a place to live, food to eat, and a "job".
Also, lots of people are monks for a time and then leave again to become "normal" citizens.

Why not think of the "wushu"-monks as a possible salvation of the arts - albeit somewhat athletic and circusy - BUT they live in monasteries, train hard all day long, and (to the best of my knowledge) are buddhist.
Do anyone of you know that they are "bad" buddhists?


Also: What's orange and bald??

OUCH!!! My toes

Of course they are bad Buddists...they're allowed to eat meat

I did not get to Shaolin but I got to a Buddhist Monastery and a Taoist and they were pretty cool. And although the Buddhist Monastery I got to was not Shaolin I did watch one of the Monks doing Kung Fu, not sure which style, although I am not sure if he knew I was watching. He was in a walled area lower on the mountain and I was in a walled area higher on the mountain. But there were good Buddhists

 

[Azzy]

Of course they are bad Buddists...they're allowed to eat meat

I may be wrong on this. But most of the sources I have read mention two distinct classes of monk. The warrior monk and the temple monk.
And the warrior monks seam to be allowed to have children and eat meat.

(Excerpt from Chan Buddhism website)
"This is where Shaolin tradition differs. There is a type of monastic who is not fully ordained. The warrior monks are unique to Shaolin and only take five lay precepts (no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no wrong speech, no intoxicants). However, there are exceptions. While on temple grounds they observe ten precepts, with the precept of no sexual misconduct upgraded to full celibacy.

The warrior monks in Shaolin tradition are considered monastics because they often live and practice in the temple. They differ from the secular disciples (Chin.: sújiādìzǐ 俗家弟&#23376 who live at home. Warrior monks are like secular disciples who have "left home" (Chin.: chūjiādìzǐ 出家弟&#23376. The level of their precepts makes them secular, but their position in the temple makes them monastic. This is unique to Shaolin, hence the common confusion. In other traditions they are seen as secular Buddhist gongfu masters who are trained under the guidance of fully ordained monks.

This is often times unknown to many which creates controversy. The most common accusations are of the warrior monks breaking precepts such as of not eating meat. However, this precept is found in the Bodhisattva Precepts which is a choice for laity. Warrior monks do not necessarily take them. Furthermore, the Pratimoksha Precepts are those which make one fully ordained, and when broken have more strict punishments depending on the degree. Meat eating, however, is not found within this set of precepts, and therefore would not result in expulsion. Regardless, for one who has not taken such a precept of vegetarianism, there can be no punishment."

 

[Xue Sheng]

I beleive it was emperor Taizong of the Tang Dynasty that got them eating meat as a kind of thanks for the help

 

[Jin Gang]

For answers, or at least insights, into a lot of the questions and legends regarding the shaolin temple throughout history, check out "The Shaolin Monastery: History, Religion and the Chinese Martial Arts" by Meir Shahar, it recently came out in paperback. I got it for Christmas from my wife, and it presents some very enlightening facts about shaolin's history and some of the legends regarding martial arts practice there. There's too much to go into in a single post, but suffice to say it convincingly dispells some of the myths that have been handed down about shaolin and shaolin martial arts over the years. It's not a book about martial arts styles or techniques specifically, but the history of the temple and Buddhist warrior monks in general.
There are traditional (non-acrobatic/performance) martial arts being taught in and around the shaolin temple today. The forms may not have been preserved in the temple uninterrupted, but after it was reopened by the government in the 1980's, they brought in martial artists who knew the styles that were traditionally practiced in the areas around the temple. The shaolin temple was shut down or destroyed several times throughout its history, so this probably isn't the first time that happened.

 

[rickster]

Are there ANY genuine Shaolin monks?

Define "real"

Can anything be so commercialized and exploited beyond its true form and intention truly be real?

For example, look at the Japanese sword.

Most are made in this era using so many modern methods, is it real?

Do we use the term "real" as seeing and touching?

Or shall we substitute "real" with "authentic"?