Applying Parker Techniques in Sparring

[rockky]

Has anyone sucessfully applied any particular techniques in sparring-- defensively or offensively??

I ask because I've seen so much sparring where there is nothing distinctively Kenpo about it... ie. it looks very generic: backnuckle, punch, roundhouse... etc.

(I thought I posted this somewhere else on this site but I can't find the thread)

 

[Thesemindz]

Has anyone sucessfully applied any particular techniques in sparring-- defensively or offensively??

I ask because I've seen so much sparring where there is nothing distinctively Kenpo about it... ie. it looks very generic: backnuckle, punch, roundhouse... etc.

(I thought I posted this somewhere else on this site but I can't find the thread)

The first thing to point out is that the self defense techniques are not designed to be used in sparring. Sparring is a very specific combat style activity which has very specific restrictions. Self defense techniques are designed for a different situation with different rules.

That being said, I felt the same way while watching people spar in a Kenpo school. It does look like generic punch kick karate, and has very little to do with Kenpo. So I took some kenpo techniques and taught them in my sparring class where my students could drill them repeatedly and try to use them in combat.

Some good examples are using Delayed Sword or the first part of Attacking Mace against a jab, and using Deflecting Hammer against a kick, but changing the elbow strike to what is commonly reffered to as a "reverse punch" or "cross."

The key is to pick one technique, and then have the students spar. One student uses only the attack for that technique, over and over and over. The other student uses only the specific assigned defense. After a few minutes, switch roles. Repeat this process with two or three techniques. Then have the students do the drill, this time using any of the attacks you've practiced, but only those attacks, while the other student uses any of the prescribed defenses. Finally, let them spar unrestricted, but have them focus on using the practiced defenses whenever the specific attacks are presented.

The key here is that the students have to drill these defenses against attacks. If they've practiced kenpo enough, these things will happen naturally, but it's easy, even for an experienced kenpo practitioner to fall into the trap of using basic sparring maneuvers when playing that game. I always insisted my students fire at least two strikes at a time, students firing single strikes were warned, and on some nights when it was our focus, we would drop for pushups whenever we fired one strike with no follow up, even me. One strike will fail 99% of the time. Two strikes have a fifty fifty chance of success, but three or more strikes will succeed 99% of the time. Combinations, practice, and repetition is how you get better at sparring, and working your kenpo into your sparring is the same.

Ultimately, sparring is an intermediate drill. As students progress in their training, they should move past karate style sparring into continuous sparring, and eventually into fully integrated combat style activities, involving stand up and ground grappling as well as street techniques and targets, of course with control. During these activities, you will see more self defense technique material because these activities are more closely related to the arena for which that material was created.


-Rob

 

[IWishToLearn]

I've heard SGM Parker quoted with something along the lines of "We're Kenpo. We do techniques." Regarding what to use for sparring purposes. You can blend and combine your techniques in sparring situations.

 

[HKphooey]

I use frictional pulls and pushes in sparring (since we are not allowed to grab).

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Has anyone sucessfully applied any particular techniques in sparring-- defensively or offensively??

I ask because I've seen so much sparring where there is nothing distinctively Kenpo about it... ie. it looks very generic: backnuckle, punch, roundhouse... etc.

(I thought I posted this somewhere else on this site but I can't find the thread)

Yes.

Personal Favorites:

Deflecting Hammer
Attacking Mace
Evading the Storm
Detour From Doom
Rotating Destruction
Thundering Hammers
B1A
B1B

 

[Blindside]

Has anyone sucessfully applied any particular techniques in sparring-- defensively or offensively??

I ask because I've seen so much sparring where there is nothing distinctively Kenpo about it... ie. it looks very generic: backnuckle, punch, roundhouse... etc.

(I thought I posted this somewhere else on this site but I can't find the thread)

So you've never picked up a punch with your left hand, as you counter jabbed or hammerfisted with your right, then followed with a left cross? Open your hands and that is the entry on Five Swords.

You've never zoned outside a right cross, used a right ridgehand, then followed with a clinch behind the neck that pins their right arm? That's Sleeper.

If it looks generic, that is because the tools are largely the same, particularly when limited by rulesets. Does your sparring allow elbows? Pretty hard to do alot of the close range techs if those are limited. Do you allow grabbing and clinching? You won't see a double lapel grab, because its friggin' stupid to try to do that when someone is swinging at you. I sometimes lapel grab and punch with the other hand after we've been closed in a clinch, and I've been countered by Drawbridge (Tracy tech) at least twice.

So yes, I've seen and done techs in sparring. It is just how you view it.

Lamont

PS: AK also has the "freestyle" techs which are designed for sparring situations and show offensive entries.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

The techs are hard to pull off in sparring because, when sparring, we don't commit to our strikes. Too many techs don't work with the kinds of strikes we deploy in kumite.

Some exceptions exist. The basics of Delayed Sword and Sword of Destruction, any of the off-line entries in, say, Reversing Mace or Thundering Hammers. Shielding Hammer is the only one I've ever pulled off as written (though I didn't follow through with the elbow strike).

Just like in real combat, trying to do a technique is not recommended. Instead use the ideas expressed by the technique to make an intelligent response to the situation.

 

[Thesemindz]

Just like in real combat, trying to do a technique is not recommended. Instead use the ideas expressed by the technique to make an intelligent response to the situation.

I understand what you're saying here, I just wanted to make a point that I feel that in combat the technique as written is the recommended response. If the encounter evolves differently than the ideal phase of the technique, then you adjust and apply the principles and lessons of kenpo at large to the dynamics of the specific situation, but all things being equal, you're better off to do what you've practiced a thousand times, exactly how you practiced it.

I think you'd probably agree, and didn't mean to say otherwise in your post, I just saw it as an opportunity to make a more specific point.


-Rob

 

[Touch Of Death]

Yes.

Personal Favorites:

Deflecting Hammer
Attacking Mace
Evading the Storm
Detour From Doom
Rotating Destruction
Thundering Hammers
B1A
B1B

Isn't clutching feathers B1A after the first move? LOL

 

[Atlanta-Kenpo]

I was working on this about 3 years ago and I was not very successful. That is until I started training under Zach Whitson. This is exactly what his CounterPoint is all about. I highly recommed that if you are serious about this that you spend some time on the matt with him. He is all about sparing regardless if it is with empty hand, stick, knife, stand up grappling or on the ground! His stuff really is amazing.

Now that I have been with him for 2 years now myself and my student sparing on all levels every week and I have personaly grow more doing this then anything else, including ,doing technique lines over and over on a compliant partner.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I understand what you're saying here, I just wanted to make a point that I feel that in combat the technique as written is the recommended response. If the encounter evolves differently than the ideal phase of the technique, then you adjust and apply the principles and lessons of kenpo at large to the dynamics of the specific situation, but all things being equal, you're better off to do what you've practiced a thousand times, exactly how you practiced it.

I think you'd probably agree, and didn't mean to say otherwise in your post, I just saw it as an opportunity to make a more specific point.


-Rob

Agreed and well put.

 

[MattJ]

While I don't subscribe to the notion that the techniques have to be reproduced verbatim in sparring, I have found several technique parts to be very usable.

Intellectual departure
Parting wings
Five Swords
Raking mace
Delayed sword

A few others. But I mostly try to concentrate on applying the principles within the techniques, as opposed to the moves themselves. Things like tracking, obscure zones, borrowed force, residual force, etc. Lots of useful stuff.

 

[HINER]

Isn't it interesting most of the techniques listed above are beginner techniques?

Concepts and principles are key. "Action - Reaction"

 

[Kenpo 2006]

I find that it the best way to learn to apply any tech in sparring is to pick one and then find a way to incorporate it through grafting in the match. I had an instructor that used this and everyone that he sparred with generally ended up falling prey to the tech at some point If you want to be able to do it in the street you have to find a way to make it work in sparring.

 

[Doc]

The first thing to point out is that the self defense techniques are not designed to be used in sparring. Sparring is a very specific combat style activity which has very specific restrictions. Self defense techniques are designed for a different situation with different rules.

That being said, I felt the same way while watching people spar in a Kenpo school. It does look like generic punch kick karate, and has very little to do with Kenpo. So I took some kenpo techniques and taught them in my sparring class where my students could drill them repeatedly and try to use them in combat.

Some good examples are using Delayed Sword or the first part of Attacking Mace against a jab, and using Deflecting Hammer against a kick, but changing the elbow strike to what is commonly reffered to as a "reverse punch" or "cross."

The key is to pick one technique, and then have the students spar. One student uses only the attack for that technique, over and over and over. The other student uses only the specific assigned defense. After a few minutes, switch roles. Repeat this process with two or three techniques. Then have the students do the drill, this time using any of the attacks you've practiced, but only those attacks, while the other student uses any of the prescribed defenses. Finally, let them spar unrestricted, but have them focus on using the practiced defenses whenever the specific attacks are presented.

The key here is that the students have to drill these defenses against attacks. If they've practiced kenpo enough, these things will happen naturally, but it's easy, even for an experienced kenpo practitioner to fall into the trap of using basic sparring maneuvers when playing that game. I always insisted my students fire at least two strikes at a time, students firing single strikes were warned, and on some nights when it was our focus, we would drop for pushups whenever we fired one strike with no follow up, even me. One strike will fail 99% of the time. Two strikes have a fifty fifty chance of success, but three or more strikes will succeed 99% of the time. Combinations, practice, and repetition is how you get better at sparring, and working your kenpo into your sparring is the same.

Ultimately, sparring is an intermediate drill. As students progress in their training, they should move past karate style sparring into continuous sparring, and eventually into fully integrated combat style activities, involving stand up and ground grappling as well as street techniques and targets, of course with control. During these activities, you will see more self defense technique material because these activities are more closely related to the arena for which that material was created.


-Rob

Your post is a good one sir. I would also like to add the problem as I see it, is sparring is dictated by the rules of the activity. This by necessity includes a regulation of not only the physical activity through physical restrictions, but the equipment allowed as well. Sparring may go along way toward teaching mindset, dealing with contact, and improving reflex responses, but unless the techniques are designed specifically for the activity, it's not feeseable. Traditional Slef-Defense techniques are not designed for the activity in general.

 

[cdhall]

Yes.

Personal Favorites:

Deflecting Hammer
B1A

I haven't read all of this thread but I wanted to chime in that I used these 2 last night and use B1a a lot. And I guess I also use a variation on B1aK if that is one, I'd have to look that up.