Application of SLT

[AceHBK]

I remembered asking to see the application of the moves done in SLT. (I have only learned 1/3 of it b.c my Sifu teaches SLT in 3 seperate parts.) I was able to find these videos showing the applications which helps put things into perspective.

My Sifu told me there are many things that can be done but never showed me anything. Thank God for Youtube!!

Check it out and let me know what you think. Time for me to learn the rest of SLT on my own on youtube...I am ready to learn the rest of it.

Part 1

Part 2

 

[geezer]

My Sifu told me there are many things that can be done but never showed me anything. Thank God for Youtube!!

Check it out and let me know what you think. Time for me to learn the rest of SLT on my own on youtube...I am ready to learn the rest of it.

I checked out the clips, and the movements are considerably more... er... "elaborate" than what I'm used to. More of a "shaolin-y" or even "kenpo-esque" flavor... even in the way he explains these movement applications. Nothing wrong with that mind you, but personally, I'm a big fan of simplicity. To me that's what WC/WT is all about.

So back to you. Tell us a bit more about your situation, and why you aren't satisfied with your Sifu's explanations?

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes, It is very interesting. Yes videos can give you some applications. But applications that are easier for you to do will come to you the more you practice the first form. It took me years to be able to learn from practicing the form. Mostly because I did it for different reasons. But yes. If you focus on each technique and desire to understand them I suggest meditating on each move while doing the form. An also day dream about the form when your doing something mundane like bathing or at work on your computer. Meditate on how the moves can be applied with a foe beside you,behind you,to your left or right and infront of you.

Also take some of the various techniques you already know an drill them over and over again while meditating an envisioning an foe infront of you.

Here is a movie with Wong Shun Leung performing SLT...Nothing better than listening to some of us greatest Sifu's.


Augstine Fong SLT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAAVQKvhtA

Wong Shun Leung Just the Form
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...APHx62BCA&q=Sil+Lim+Tao+Wong+Shun+Leung&hl=en


Wong Shun Leung Applications and WC training
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...JHXDA&q=wong+shun+leung+wing+chun&hl=en&emb=1

Watch the entire video of the applications one..through out the video he shows SLT applications.

I hope it helps. a little...

In the yip lineage the opening can be used to adminster back fist.

The Double Gan Sau
Can be a lower Central Line block(Lower cross hands). The Upper Cross Hands I utilize to pull someone grabbing upward to uproot them or make them move out posistion. I also use it to redirect them.

If the got both my arms depending on posistion of their grab. I can either split them open leaving them vulernable for a split second. Or I could use it to control them to place them into a joint lock.

Every time you chamber the arm. To me its like practicing Jut Sau. Where you grab.

First Punch
Of course the first punch is pretty self explantory, No? Although the punch can be a finger strike,phoenix fist,ginger fist,palm strike or other things.


The Huen Sau
Can be use to go around a guard or strike and hit your foe.
Huen Sau can be use to release grabs or turn a grab into a Chin Na technique that puts pressure on the wrist. Also part of the Huen Sau can be alternated to a tan sau to use for various reasons.


*WuSau-Fook Sau Motion done three times on both sides..


Tan Sau going forward.
Used against arms grabs.
To gain entry of guards.
To uproot.
To strike eyes or soft part of the body.

Huen Sau
Escape grabs or move around guards

Jum Sau
To block low line punch.
To bring Guards down.
To bring high punch down low.

Wu Sau retract backwards
Guarding Hand can use to cover.
To Pull opponent or guard his force in and then redirect.
To Jam attack.

Fok Sau outward
Done fast can be a strike to diaphram.

Huen Sau to Jum Sau to Wu sau to Fok Sau three more times. Same applications.


Also they call this praying Thrice. I forgot the other term for thus sequence. But it is also building Chi. It is Chi kung. This part of the form is suppose to be done slowly. You are building and cultivating Chi here. Also when performing all parts of SLT one should focus on the Dan Tien and cultivation of Chi.


I believe this is the first part you are at? Are you farther than that let me know?

Wong Shun Leung video will give you some help too...


Let know if you have any more questions. My Applications are just a few...there are numerous applications others please feel free to share any apps you also have?


Check out this site giving you the names and meanings of all the moves in Sil Lim Tau.


http://www.cebridge.com.au/Ipman/SilLimTao/Index.htm


Here is a list of hands of Wing Chun! ()

Hands of Wing Chun

1. Bong Sao (wing arm)
2. Tan Sao (palm up hand)
3. Pak Sao (slapping hand)
4. Fook Sao (controlling hand or bridge hand)
5. Lap Sao (pulling hand or grabbing hand)
6. Wu Sao (protecting hand)
7. Tok Sao (lifting hand)
8. Jut Sao (jerking hand)
9. Lin Lop Sao (cross grappling hand)
10. Huen Sao (circling hand)
11. Kwun Sao (rotating hand)
12. Gum Sao (pinning hand)
13. Lan Sao (bar arm)
14. Man Sao (searching hand)
15. Goang Sao (lower outer wrist block)
16. Guan Sao (splitting hand)
17. Bil Sao (thrusting hand)
18. Man Geung Sao (neck pulling hand
19. Biu Sao (Finger Thrust Block or thrusting hand)
20. Tie Sao (Uplifting hand)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Chun_terms



Shalowm!!!!!!

I remembered asking to see the application of the moves done in SLT. (I have only learned 1/3 of it b.c my Sifu teaches SLT in 3 seperate parts.) I was able to find these videos showing the applications which helps put things into perspective.

My Sifu told me there are many things that can be done but never showed me anything. Thank God for Youtube!!

Check it out and let me know what you think. Time for me to learn the rest of SLT on my own on youtube...I am ready to learn the rest of it.

Part 1

Part 2

 

[AceHBK]

So the are more simpler applications than what he is showing?

In TKD I can see the application in each of the movements. In WC it is more difficult. I can see somethings and others I can't. It is nice to see a visualization of what the movements do.

For example in the movie Ip Man Donnie Yen beats up a guy and in the action sequence it goes back and forth with a clip of him performing the wooden dummy form and then back to the fight. You see the applications of the wooden dummy being done to his opponent.

Im looking for the samething. I am always full of questions and want to know why I am doing it like this. Not that I disagree with it, im just curious. So if someone was to ask me, I could give a explanation other than "I don't know I was just taught to do it this way".

 

[AceHBK]

Meditate on how the moves can be applied with a foe beside you,behind you,to your left or right and infront of you.

Also take some of the various techniques you already know an drill them over and over again while meditating an envisioning an foe infront of you.

Thanks for the clips. I am using WSL to learn the rest of the form now.

I have tried that "close eyes and meditate while i practice" and doesn't work for me and never has.

Guess my mind works in a different way. I have always been hands on and need something physical in front of me. Lucky I have a "warm body" who can be a "live dummy" to help me out when I am going thru stuff out of school.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I added more to my post than before. So be sure to check it out...I hope some of my break downs and applications help...


I added those later...did you see them????

In the yip lineage the opening can be used to adminster back fist.

The Double Gan Sau
Can be a lower Central Line block(Lower cross hands). The Upper Cross Hands I utilize to pull someone grabbing upward to uproot them or make them move out posistion. I also use it to redirect them.

If the got both my arms depending on posistion of their grab. I can either split them open leaving them vulernable for a split second. Or I could use it to control them to place them into a joint lock.

Every time you chamber the arm. To me its like practicing Jut Sau. Where you grab.

First Punch
Of course the first punch is pretty self explantory, No? Although the punch can be a finger strike,phoenix fist,ginger fist,palm strike or other things.


The Huen Sau
Can be use to go around a guard or strike and hit your foe.
Huen Sau can be use to release grabs or turn a grab into a Chin Na technique that puts pressure on the wrist. Also part of the Huen Sau can be alternated to a tan sau to use for various reasons.


*WuSau-Fook Sau Motion done three times on both sides..


Tan Sau going forward.
Used against arms grabs.
To gain entry of guards.
To uproot.
To strike eyes or soft part of the body.

Huen Sau
Escape grabs or move around guards

Jum Sau
To block low line punch.
To bring Guards down.
To bring high punch down low.

Wu Sau retract backwards
Guarding Hand can use to cover.
To Pull opponent or guard his force in and then redirect.
To Jam attack.

Fok Sau outward
Done fast can be a strike to diaphram.

Huen Sau to Jum Sau to Wu sau to Fok Sau three more times. Same applications.


Also they call this praying Thrice. I forgot the other term for thus sequence. But it is also building Chi. It is Chi kung. This part of the form is suppose to be done slowly. You are building and cultivating Chi here. Also when performing all parts of SLT one should focus on the Dan Tien and cultivation of Chi.


I believe this is the first part you are at? Are you farther than that let me know?

Thanks for the clips. I am using WSL to learn the rest of the form now.

I have tried that "close eyes and meditate while i practice" and doesn't work for me and never has.

Guess my mind works in a different way. I have always been hands on and need something physical in front of me. Lucky I have a "warm body" who can be a "live dummy" to help me out when I am going thru stuff out of school.

 

[mook jong man]

I remembered asking to see the application of the moves done in SLT. (I have only learned 1/3 of it b.c my Sifu teaches SLT in 3 seperate parts.) I was able to find these videos showing the applications which helps put things into perspective.

My Sifu told me there are many things that can be done but never showed me anything. Thank God for Youtube!!

Check it out and let me know what you think. Time for me to learn the rest of SLT on my own on youtube...I am ready to learn the rest of it.

Part 1

Part 2

The problem with learning off Youtube mate is that there is no quality control . In some ways I am glad that Youtube was not around when I was learning , otherwise I would have been hungry for information like you and trawling for stuff and getting thoroughly confused in the process .

Okay , I will lay it on the line , his stance looked a little bit wide to me , which would hinder fluid mobility and kicking . But I am only going off the opening shot after that I couldn't see his legs properly , so It might have been just my eyes .

The applications he was using were not wrong per se but they weren't the most direct and efficient use of the applications either . Most of the counters where he did two moves could have been done in one move , I found myself saying several times " Just friggin hit him ". That is one of the filters you have to apply to stuff you see on the internet and to me one of the most important ones , is what the person doing DIRECT or are they unnecessarily playing with the persons hands .

In fighting every nano second counts and if your techniques takes too many moves before the opponent is actually hit then you are in danger of being countered . What I am saying is that some of the applications that he demonstrated could have been used to deflect and strike through in one motion with only one arm .

For instance he seemed to like applying his Tan Sau with his right hand to deflect his partners right punch on the out side of the wrist , which will stop the punch . But it is more aggressive and invasive to use your left Tan Sau to deflect his right punch on the outside of his wrist and then punch straight through with the same hand .

Similarly if he wanted to use his right hand against his opponents right hand punch , instead of using Tan Sau he could have just punched straight through with his own counter punch , you wait for him to punch and then you intercept at his wrist on the outside of his arm with your own punch and this redirects his punch off to the side and you stike through with the same arm .

This is why we spend so much time on stance , structure and developing that driving elbow force it acts as a wedge , redirecting any incoming force off to the side and at the same time penetrating deep into the opponents defences.

I'm not saying you can't learn from the clips but look at them with an analytical eye and see if you can pick out the parts where it would be possible for him to just hit straight through in one motion , or where it would have been been better to have used two hands in unison . I think I saw one bit where I would have done a lap sau and hit the bloke but he did some convoluted move with one hand .

You've just got to be careful mate you are not getting a bum steer with some of these Wing Chun demos on the net .

 

[AceHBK]

Mook Jong Man - Once again you give sound advice. Thank you. I will only take the SLT form and work on it and of course learn perfecting it with my teacher.
Thanks for breaking down the techniques.

Do you know of any clips that I could see the samethings done more simpler? I know that I wont fully understand everything but it is always good to just see.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

I am sorry I am not sure if you mentioned it before. But how long have you been studing WC?


Did you watch the Wong Shun Leung Applications video yet?


It makes things rather simple.

As for TKD? how many Forms do you know? Did they show you to applications of hand techniques of Tae Kwon Do Forms?

Also could you understand various possible applications to TKD forms when you first saw them? Or did it take you awhile to be able to depict what each thing was for through alot practice and experience.

TKD forms show more hand techniques than kicks:

Also you can meditate with your eyes open too...just visualizing the motions as you do them. You can see but its like part of your surroundings you zone out and open up your mind. Its like your in a dream state. I been driving home from work for years in this meditative state. An I drive even better like that. But it took years of practice for it to be second nature.

Mook Jong Man - Once again you give sound advice. Thank you. I will only take the SLT form and work on it and of course learn perfecting it with my teacher.
Thanks for breaking down the techniques.

Do you know of any clips that I could see the samethings done more simpler? I know that I wont fully understand everything but it is always good to just see.

 

[mook jong man]

Thank you , but don't take my word as gospel either , I am wrong quite frequently , just ask my missus.

I remember a long time ago a senior instructor said to us " When you walk into the school to train , don't leave your brain at the door " in other words learn to not just accept things at face value , but dissect them and analyse them.


In our lineage we tended to use this criteria , but keep in mind that across different lineages they will have variations and even they are open to different interpretations . The basic principles are

SIMPLICITY
DIRECTNESS
ECONOMY OF MOVEMENT
MINIMUM USE OF BRUTE STRENGTH
PRACTICALITY

You can still go investigating stuff , because the internet is a wonderful tool and I see a lot of things that I like in other lineages , where as other ones leave me shaking my head.

That is the problem being able to separate the wheat from the chaff .
I don't want to be accused of bias towards my own lineage so you just keep finding stuff and putting them up and asking questions about it , and the guys and gals on the forum should be able to reach a consensus to whether its any good or not.

 

[bs10927]

also, don't know if it's been mentioned before but aren't the forms different btwn lineages sometimes? like what i see on youtube looks like SLT that i do but then there may be extra punches, or whatever in it. Like Moy Yat's form has a kick in the end. the SLT i do now, has no kicks.

 

[Eru Ilúvatar]

Yes, you are right. But as Mook said, interpretations of the forms seem do differ alot from lineage to lineage. Even amongst forms that are done more or less the same, the variation in application/interpretation of the moves make the biggest diffrences among lineages. But I think the most importan thing is to find out what realy works for you. I don't apply WC the same as my instructor did allthough we do the same forms.

 

[geezer]

The applications he was using were not wrong per se but they weren't the most direct and efficient use of the applications either . Most of the counters where he did two moves could have been done in one move , I found myself saying several times " Just friggin hit him ".

Siu Lim Tau (or "Siu Nim Tau" in WT) roughly translates as "Little Idea" Form for a reason. There are infinite applications of these movements. That's why they are called "seed" techniques. But what's important is to keep it simple and make it work. Ace, take note. Mook hit it right on the head.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Siu Lim Tau (or "Siu Nim Tau" in WT) roughly translates as "Little Idea" Form for a reason. There are infinite applications of these movements. That's why they are called "seed" techniques. But what's important is to keep it simple and make it work. Ace, take note. Mook hit it right on the head.

I also translate Siu Nim Tau to my students to mean 'use your imagination'. Creativity in use of the hand positions is only limited by you. So use your imagination.

 

[zepedawingchun]

Thanks for the clips. I am using WSL to learn the rest of the form now.

I know I'm giving a reply several months after the initial post, but, you shouldn't do that unless your Sifu permits it. If he's taught you only the 1st 3rd of S.N.T. (Siu Nim Tao), there is reason or method to his madness. If you want to do his way of Wing Chun, you should not deviate from his teachings. If you try to learn something not taught to you and you learn it incorrectly (which is most likely), it takes forever to correct or undo what has been learned wrong. Your Wing Chun skills will suffer greatly for this. Be patiient ! ! ! There is a saying from Lao Tsu that we use in our Wing Chun that says . . . .
Do not force things. It is dangerous to deviate from instructions or push for completion. It takes a long time to do a thing properly. Once you do something wrong, it may be too late to change. (Lao Tsu)

 

[zepedawingchun]

As a follow up to the above post, here in America, we are used to getting everything we want right now, immediately. That's why we have fast food, credit cards, and McDojos. We are not patient enough to earn what we desire. There are a lot of people out there who are the same way with their Wing Chun. That's why there are so many bad clips of Wing Chun people out on UTube giving our art a bad name. Or bad Wing Chun schools with instructors (believe me, I've met a few of those over the years). People who study for 6 months to a year and then think they are 'good', and know the system and go out and try to teach their 'modified' Wing Chun (meaning they think they have improved the system by incorporating something from another art), and really have no earthly idea of what Wing Chun in all about. It pisses me off to no end and it all comes about because we (as a people) are too impatient to get it when it is deemed the right time for us.

You can't control what your students see, read, or who they practice with outside of class. But I tell them not to read the stuff they find in magazines or on the internet, not to take it to heart, when it comes to Wing Chun 'techniques'. It is the best way to destroy a students path to true understanding of Wing Chun. The saying 'too many cooks spoil the brouth' is never more true than in this situation.