Anyone look into the inside of folding knives on the construction?

[Alan0354]

I will answer it. Again. And I suspect you won't understand the answer. Again.
"Squeeze" is a meaningless word, in this context. If you don't squeeze the grip, you will drop the knife. You will never be able to pick up the knife in the first place.
Grip strength is a continuum. It's not binary. It's not either/or. It's not an On/Off switch. I've said all this multiple times, but you fail to understand it.
If you grip is loose enough that your hand can slide up the blade, then you're not doing it right. I've said this multiple times. Many others, with decades of ACTUAL training and experience in knife arts have said this multiple times. But you don't get it. So this will be the last time I say it. There is no point in discussing it further unless you somehow, after allllllll these repetitions, understand what you're being told.

I don't know what kind of instructor you are, I can only take your word that you are. I can tell you my instructor made it very clear from day one you do NOT tighten your arm and fist, relax and only tighten up at moment of contact when we practice striking. His school is Lawler's TKD in Daly City. School is quite big with like 30 to 40 student classes. He was famous enough before he retired.

This is the concept of striking we learn, I translated to stick. I feel quite good using this with knife on bags. Like I said, concept is simple, it's a start. Then practice practice practice day in and day out. BUT still base on the concept.

 

[tkdroamer]

I don't know what kind of instructor you are, I can only take your word that you are. I can tell you my instructor made it very clear from day one you do NOT tighten your arm and fist, relax and only tighten up at moment of contact when we practice striking. His school is Lawler's TKD in Daly City. School is quite big with like 30 to 40 student classes. He was famous enough before he retired.

This is the concept of striking we learn, I translated to stick. I feel quite good using this with knife on bags.

Let me tell you about the first thing we did in Kali training with Tuhon Bill McGrath. Starting with a 6-pound stee ball, you would drop it and then catch it over and over. Some on cadence, some on burners for 20-25 minutes. This increased to 12-pounds by the end of the year.
So, grip was not something you had to think about at some point. But to be certain, you were gripping the blade the whole time.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I don't know what kind of instructor you are, I can only take your word that you are. I can tell you my instructor made it very clear from day one you do NOT tighten your arm and fist, relax and only tighten up at moment of contact when we practice striking. His school is Lawler's TKD in Daly City. School is quite big with like 30 to 40 student classes. He was famous enough before he retired.

This is the concept of striking we learn, I translated to stick. I feel quite good using this with knife on bags. Like I said, concept is simple, it's a start. Then practice practice practice day in and day out. BUT still base on the concept.

You can keep a loose shoulder and still have a tight grip on a weapon. And knives and open-handed are two very different beasts, in large part for the difference wang mentioned a few posts up.

 

[Rich Parsons]

You can keep a loose shoulder and still have a tight grip on a weapon. And knives and open-handed are two very different beasts, in large part for the difference wang mentioned a few posts up.

You mean the attributes of the weapon affects the technique
No way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

You mean the attributes of the weapon affects the technique
No way.

There is a good reason that ancient "under water weapon" has a loop on the handle. This way when you swim, even if you may have loose grip, you won't drop your weapon.

 

[Alan0354]

Let me tell you about the first thing we did in Kali training with Tuhon Bill McGrath. Starting with a 6-pound stee ball, you would drop it and then catch it over and over. Some on cadence, some on burners for 20-25 minutes. This increased to 12-pounds by the end of the year.
So, grip was not something you had to think about at some point. But to be certain, you were gripping the blade the whole time.

We never even get to any of the exercise, I never said grip is not important. In fact, I spend 1/2hr each week just on grip exercise, might not be what you do, but I use grippers and wrist exerciser. I am quite sure my grip is NOT weak compare to the rest of my body. This is common sense, when doing stick fight or knife weapon etc, grip strength is very important and I put a lot of emphasis on grip exercise.

BUT, that's not the big argument here. I know the answer already. You relax the shoulder and arm, you hold the knife secure enough to swing and thrust. But you grip harder when contact. This is just COMMON SENSE, I'm not here to learn how to walk!!! Using this concept, practice practice practice to get the feel when to relax, how much to relax and still hold onto the knife, when to tighten to get the best effect. Just like punching and stick fight. Who is SO STUPID, to relax all the way and let things fry out of the hand?

BUT Dirty Dog came out and kept saying WRONG WRONG WRONG without even trying to ask a single question. He ONLY KNOW HOW TO PUT DOWN. He can't even answer a SIMPLE question, if it is WRONG to relax in the swing and tighten up at contact, WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY. He can't even answer. There goes round and round of insult!!!

Some people here are SLOW!!! We don't know how good HIS MA skill, we can only take his words. But I hate to say from this post, some are SLOW. AND they assume without even clarify, just going around and around and around. Read the whole thread if you care, from talking mechanical theory to this, how many times I have to keep going over and over and over and over. People don't read and jumped to conclusion and come out with big statements..........

 

[Alan0354]

You can keep a loose shoulder and still have a tight grip on a weapon. And knives and open-handed are two very different beasts, in large part for the difference wang mentioned a few posts up.

YES, this is common sense. Maybe I should clarify a little more, but for cry out loud, people really take it LITERALLY that relax the hand to the point the weapon flies off the hand when swinging? WOW, like talking to a child?

Even if someone said something one consider strange and crazy, at least take the time to clarify before jumping to conclusion.

I really learn a lot in this thread, really a lot!!! WOW!!! From simple common sense mechanical to just such basic stuff of holding a weapon.....WOW.

I know I am not making friends here, I might be banned, but WOW!!!! I was debating whether I post here or Physics Forums that I used to frequent as contributor. I should have gone there even though they have no interest on knives. Discussion would have been ended in a day or so.

I think this post should be LOCKED. Nothing to talk anymore, BOTH mechanical design and fighting skill. BUT I did learn A LOT........... Not on the subject of the thread!!!

 

[drop bear]

I don't remember which video, I watch quite a bit. BUT that's how punching and kicking are. You never keep everything tight, only tighten up at the last moment.

If you get a rubber knife and spar like that. You will find it has a tendency to pop out of your hand in the kaos. I found even being a bit lazy with the grip can make you loose the knife.

Especially if they are doing hard blocks.

 

[drop bear]

I'll stay with knives with good protection no matter how good I can become in the future. It would be STUPID to say I am so good that I don't need the insurance.

A decent handle you can grip is very important.i am not sure why you are getting so much resistance to that.

I tried flicking open my sr1. Look it's doable.

And that would give you the closest you will get to a prybar that probably won't come out of your hand.

The lite version is a bit cheaper. And should do fine for what you want.

Here we go.

The guy pops it open. And from just eyeballing there is quite a bit of steel in the bit you want a bit of steel to be.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

YES, this is common sense. Maybe I should clarify a little more, but for cry out loud, people really take it LITERALLY that relax the hand to the point the weapon flies off the hand when swinging? WOW, like talking to a child?

Even if someone said something one consider strange and crazy, at least take the time to clarify before jumping to conclusion.

So clarify. Are you suggesting holding it loosely or not? I'm not referring to it flying out when swinging (though that is certainly possible and has happened to most people who keep a loose grip at some point), but just holding it generally loosely lets it get knocked out easier from unexpected force on it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

You can keep a loose shoulder and still have a tight grip on a weapon. And knives and open-handed are two very different beasts, in large part for the difference wang mentioned a few posts up.

You mean to say it's not an either/or binary thing????? That's insane!

You mean the attributes of the weapon affects the technique
No way.

Shocking.

 

[Alan0354]

A decent handle you can grip is very important.i am not sure why you are getting so much resistance to that.

I tried flicking open my sr1. Look it's doable.

And that would give you the closest you will get to a prybar that probably won't come out of your hand.

The lite version is a bit cheaper. And should do fine for what you want.

Here we go.

The guy pops it open. And from just eyeballing there is quite a bit of steel in the bit you want a bit of steel to be.

Cold steel is good, notice they don't use ball bearings and pivot area is very robust? Notice if you look deeper into those torture videos, a lot of knives they use were without ball bearings. That MIGHT give a miss-conception that the pivot is never a problem.

I am not even saying the pivot area is the most critical, it's just going down the list of finding all the potential weak point and avoid it.

Yes, the ones with longer flipper tab offer better protection and serve as insurance. Why fight it.

 

[Alan0354]

So clarify. Are you suggesting holding it loosely or not? I'm not referring to it flying out when swinging (though that is certainly possible and has happened to most people who keep a loose grip at some point), but just holding it generally loosely lets it get knocked out easier from unexpected force on it.

What I do is before I start swinging or thrusting, I hold it loose enough, when I start to swing or thrust forward, I slowly tighten the grip, but not enough to make me tighten my shoulder and arm, then tighten up right before contact so I get full grip when contact.

Like I said, holding it loosely and tighten when contact is the CONCEPT to practice. You practice and practice and slowly get the timing down. It takes time to go from loose to tight, the amount of time to go from start to contact. So at the end, it's a continuous motion.


BUT the concept is very important from day one and practice. Then you adapt to the best way somewhere in the middle.



For me, I also practice to have accidental contact along the way with my stick fight. I intentionally practice swinging in tight space with things in the way. I practice so I don't lose my cane if I contact something along the way when I am not in full grip strength. I even have fast moving target that with the best effort, I would miss to make sure I don't lose my cane.

It's a concept to relax before contact and grip at contact, but you practice in all different situation until you don't lose your cane/knife in all different situation.

 

[drop bear]

Cold steel is good, notice they don't use ball bearings and pivot area is very robust? Notice if you look deeper into those torture videos, a lot of knives they use were without ball bearings. That MIGHT give a miss-conception that the pivot is never a problem.

I am not even saying the pivot area is the most critical, it's just going down the list of finding all the potential weak point and avoid it.

Yes, the ones with longer flipper tab offer better protection and serve as insurance. Why fight it.

For flippers. Have you considered the Crawford

That must be a new video. They seem to be actively shying away from saying how good their knives are for murdering people.

Crawford traditionally does defensive knives. It is designed for pretty much that job.

 

[Alan0354]

For flippers. Have you considered the Crawford

That must be a new video. They seem to be actively shying away from saying how good their knives are for murdering people.

Crawford traditionally does defensive knives. It is designed for pretty much that job.

Yes, seriously looked into it. Now this is my own crazy issue. I don't know why I love plastic polymer guns, but I don't like polymer only knife handle!!! One side of the handle has no steel lining. That's the ONLY reason I didn't go for it. I know, this is my problem!!! Here's the video:

Actually I found what I want, I am not even looking much lately. This is my go to knife I carry all over with me. The Steel Will Warbot. I bought two of this:
Warbot

It's hefty 6oz. I opened it and took pictures. Look at the inside:

The two side plate is 0.06" thick, not ball bearings, thick blade.......This is every bit as robust as Cold Steel. I really sharpened it.

I might still buy the Crawford 1 in the future if I can get over the plastic part of it.

Thanks

 

[Alan0354]

A decent handle you can grip is very important.i am not sure why you are getting so much resistance to that.

I tried flicking open my sr1. Look it's doable.

And that would give you the closest you will get to a prybar that probably won't come out of your hand.

The lite version is a bit cheaper. And should do fine for what you want.

Here we go.

The guy pops it open. And from just eyeballing there is quite a bit of steel in the bit you want a bit of steel to be.

I am stunned too.

I join two other knife forums and read some of the comments. Knives to them are like handbags to women. It's about NAME brands, nice looking, a lot of them are thin and trim looking. Even the more rugged looking ones don't have the protection. Look at Spyderco, expensive, but look at this:

There is NO protection of your hand.

A lot of other expensive ones are thin and trim looking, like for dress ups. this is one of the example of $200 knife, very little protection:
KUBEY New Dandy KB247

I have slim ones too, but I still get with flipper tap. These are two I have, big one is Kizer, the small one is Carimee. Kizer was $69 which I got for 1/2 price on one day sale on Amazon, the other one was on sale too.

they are slim, but still have good protection.

No matter how good one in using knife as weapon, it never hurts to have INSURANCE. In the middle of the fight, all it takes is a moment lose of concentration and forget to hold the knife tight, the knife gets shoved back and one will have to have multiple surgeries and long time to repair the hand.

But I notice, it's no use talking to those people. They can't hear you. They only look at how much it cost, what brand. Everyone kept telling me cheap knives are all junk. I can tell you, other than the Steel Will Warbot I have the built like a tank, my next knife that I feel most comfortable and sturdy is one that cost $26. That's AFTER I opened it up, looked at everything and still think it's the second toughest knife in my collection. The bottom knife in the picture below is the LAURISLVA medium size. The top one is Steel Will Warbot which I have two.

Surprisingly, the steel plate on both sides are 0.06" thick, it has ball bearings. But the few I got is at least 0.05" thick on the critical part of the pivot point as described in detail in this thread. The only problem that I do not out right recommend this is because the thickness vary with different knives(of the same model). Maybe it's of different runs in production. I have to buy, open up to measure to determine whether I keep it or return it. But when it is good, it's really good.

Ha ha, for $26, I already bought 4, enough for the rest of my life, still it's only $100!!!

 

[drop bear]

By the way. I saw a torture test on a benchmade bug out. And it survived really well.

Also axis locks are fast. As fast as any flipper with a bit more control.

 

[Tigerwarrior]

Hi

This is about the inside of the folding knives, their design and construction, more on engineering technical side. I want to see other people hear have any suggestions which knife is strong in what I am going to describe in the following.

I actually posted this in "All about pocket knives" Knife Mechanic's Swap forum that is supposed to talk about the mechanical aspect of knives. When I described using the knife for prying, thrusting ans shanking, they called me vigilantism!!! So I try posting here to see if anyone actually like me opening up the knife and study the construction, and any suggestion which model that is good. So here it is:


Just curious anyone here are like me that open the knives up and look at the inside? I find quite a few that I opened are quite disturbing. A lot of folding pocket knives look very heavy duty on the outside. But if you open them up and look at the inside, it's a totally different story. I am looking at the joint between the handle and the blade, here is the picture of what I am looking:

View attachment 29162
The picture show the thickness of the blade where it is screwed onto the frame. You can see the cut out to fit the ball bearings. This picture is Off-Grid Baby Rhino. The thickness is 0.073", which is very robust. The two steel side plate is 0.06" thick. All in all, this is a very robust knife that can stand up to prying, shanking and all that.


Now, look at the SenCut Acumen : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F6D95SC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Looks heavy duty from the looks, BUT, look at the inside:
View attachment 29163

The thickness is only 0.035", That's very thin for a knife that's supposed to be heavy duty by the looks.



You cannot even trust the brands that stress on heavy duty. Like the Off-Grid Enforcer.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RQ7T3Y7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
View attachment 29164

The thickness of the blade pointed by GREEN arrow is good......BUT, look at the metal frame of the handle. They made the pocket for the ball bearing into the frame, look at the picture on the two RED arrow. It's very thin, like paper. How to you expect this to survive prying and heavy use in survival situation? You cannot even look a one model of the brand to judge the other models. Like the Off-Grid Baby Rhino, the picture above show it's as good as it gets. And this one is the worst!!!


Kubey is the same, I have the KU159 DUGU, it's robust with 0.063" thick on the blade and 0.06" on the frame, but then I bought and return the KU901, it's THIN!!!

What's wrong with the people that design knives, they don't seems to have any common sense. it's so easy to design a study knife, how can they be so stupid.



All that said, if anyone actually opened knives and have any recommendation, let me know.

Thanks

That actually looks flimsy. I've opened a few different brands, but imo if you need something with excellent lock strength cold steel does a great job with folders(they used to but I don't know now because they switched ownership) but if they are still to the original cold steel standards the recon I had was a tank.

 

[frank raud]

That actually looks flimsy. I've opened a few different brands, but imo if you need something with excellent lock strength cold steel does a great job with folders(they used to but I don't know now because they switched ownership) but if they are still to the original cold steel standards the recon I had was a tank.

But Cold Steel knives cost more than $40, so are too expensive.